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bbls0627

New member
Jul 30, 2025
2
7
I am torn between pure EV with higher towing capacity vs the Harvester version. I like the idea of the extended range but the loss in capacity is tough.

Not as much to maintain and worry about with pure EV.

How will the solid state battery advancement impact the brand as well?
 
It won't impact the brand at all in the short term - none of their competition has SSB.
It could in the long term, but we are a long time off before we see a GenII Scout.
So, relax, and sit back and enjoy the ride and read all the other threads on towing. ZERO reason to re-hash all this:


Screenshot 2026-05-12 at 9.48.55 AM.png
 
I am torn between pure EV with higher towing capacity vs the Harvester version. I like the idea of the extended range but the loss in capacity is tough.

Not as much to maintain and worry about with pure EV.

How will the solid state battery advancement impact the brand as well?
Hello, a good follow for answer to questions like that is @SpaceEVDriver. He has a lightning and goes on very long roadtrips without issue. The education he has provided on this forum helped me me decide to switch to BEV.

As for solid state, that’s not going to be happening in these first Scouts we will be able to purchase. They are testing and engineering now. They are going to use batteries that are readily available and that have shown longevity in the marketplace.

Let us know what you end up and deciding and why. Discussions like this help everyone.
 
We have very rarely needed the 320 miles range in my Lightning, even while towing. We have a little over 93,000 miles combined on our two BEVs, more than half of that from road tripping over a hundred road trips (requiring an overnight stay away from home). We live and road trip in one of the larger DC Fast Charging deserts in the US.

The times we’ve been stymied by 320 miles range are countable on one hand. We have a preferred camping spot that is 410 miles round trip from home with no DCFC in between. We can do that trip by leaving home after work the night before our trip “officially” starts, stay at an RV site most of the way to our actual camping site, and get a full charge by the next day. We then drive the final ~45 miles to our campsite. When we arrive, we set out our solar panels and are recharged to 100% by the time we head home.

For comparison, we had similar accessibility issues with this camp site when we had a Toyota Tacoma. The nearest gas station (about 20 miles from our campsite) charged $8.99/gallon of gas in 2019. The next nearest (about 45 miles) charged $7.99/gallon. I haven’t seen their prices recently, but I would be surprised if either is below $10/gallon.

My most recent towing adventure was a total of around 800 miles round trip. I towed a 24-foot deck over heavy-duty trailer out to pick up a heavy load of greenhouse materials and large water cubes, which I then towed home. The trip home included an overall elevation gain of about 4,000 feet, though there are lots of valleys and mountains in between. I have always towed at 65 mph, and this trip was no different. The trip took just as long as it’s always taken me even when towing with the Tacoma. I never once worried about range or ability to get to my next charging stop. But I was glad to have the towing capacity of the Lightning vs the Tacoma; I wouldn’t have been able to do the trip with the Tacoma.
 
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Hello, a good follow for answer to questions like that is @SpaceEVDriver. He has a lightning and goes on very long roadtrips without issue. The education he has provided on this forum helped me me decide to switch to BEV.

As for solid state, that’s not going to be happening in these first Scouts we will be able to purchase. They are testing and engineering now. They are going to use batteries that are readily available and that have shown longevity in the marketplace.

Let us know what you end up and deciding and why. Discussions like this help everyone.
To your point, his knowledges allowed me to ease my wife into EV and so far we are loving it and we are simply trickle charging. If your every 2-3 day driving habits or regular trips are in the 280-300-320 mile range I can see the EV being a bit more challenging as you are almost forced to spend 20 minutes charging just to cover the last 20 miles of a regular haul. HOWEVER, if majority is only a few 100 miles and an occasional long trip than the conversion is well worth it. Too much media making it seem hard to convert to EV but in the 3-1/2 weeks or so we’ve had ours it has been a great change. Easy to charge, quiet which makes sound system all that much better and just the instant torque is amazing. Can’t say enough positives and November, 2022 when I joined here I was adamant I would never own an EV. Education and trusting others experiences is key!
 
I am torn between pure EV with higher towing capacity vs the Harvester version. I like the idea of the extended range but the loss in capacity is tough.

Not as much to maintain and worry about with pure EV.

How will the solid state battery advancement impact the brand as well?
A lot of people are in the same boat. Scout is doing everything they can to increase the payload of the Harvester models. We will have to wait and see where they end up.

I will say that you should not worry about Solid State. They are the cold fusion of the battery world. They have literally been 2 years away for the past 20 years. They work great in the lab but are too fragile/brittle in the real world. They will probably figure it out eventually, or maybe CATL's gel electrolyte or Tesla's dry electrolyte will win. But they are still years away from being production-ready and even then, the compromises they will likely have to make in order to get the reliability where it is needed will dampen the improvements over current tech.

Bottom line, battery tech is a slow grind of a few percent here and there over years. While step changes are great for clicks and pump and dump investment schemes (ie donut labs) they almost never happen in the real world.
 
A lot of people are in the same boat. Scout is doing everything they can to increase the payload of the Harvester models. We will have to wait and see where they end up.

I will say that you should not worry about Solid State. They are the cold fusion of the battery world. They have literally been 2 years away for the past 20 years. They work great in the lab but are too fragile/brittle in the real world. They will probably figure it out eventually, or maybe CATL's gel electrolyte or Tesla's dry electrolyte will win. But they are still years away from being production-ready and even then, the compromises they will likely have to make in order to get the reliability where it is needed will dampen the improvements over current tech.

Bottom line, battery tech is a slow grind of a few percent here and there over years. While step changes are great for clicks and pump and dump investment schemes (ie donut labs) they almost never happen in the real world.
I will say, the talk about SSB does seem to be increasing.

Still 2 years away of course. But more and more companies are starting to show similar timeframes. It really does seem that the industry is aligning around ~2030 or so as a potential first time we really start seeing them.

Not disagreeing with anything you're saying. Just saying the pace of discussion seems to be increasing.

Like the OP, I'm torn between Harvester and BEV. But for different reasons. Since the time we put in the reservation, we have bought a BEV. And if that turns into something that can road trip better than we thought, we probably will go with the BEV. Otherwise Harvester it is.
 
Don't forget that nearly all of the trustworthy SSB development and announcements are coming from China. Some from Korea. The US companies are making claims that don't add up.

Even if SSBs show up in vehicles in the next four or five years, they will likely not make it to the US except in the most expensive vehicles.

One of the leading battery research scientists in the US just announced that she's leaving the country because of the terrible research outlook here, among other reasons.
 
Don't forget that nearly all of the trustworthy SSB development and announcements are coming from China. Some from Korea. The US companies are making claims that don't add up.

Even if SSBs show up in vehicles in the next four or five years, they will likely not make it to the US except in the most expensive vehicles.

One of the leading battery research scientists in the US just announced that she's leaving the country because of the terrible research outlook here, among other reasons.

Agreed here as well.

I wasn't meaning Doughnut, or other things like that. Just referencing things like Nissan, Mercedes, and other brands that are actually out there testing vehicles, and other brands like QuantumScape, Solid Power, or Factorial Energy, that are already providing sample cells, etc. Plus all the big Chinese brands of course.
 
Agreed here as well.

I wasn't meaning Doughnut, or other things like that. Just referencing things like Nissan, Mercedes, and other brands that are actually out there testing vehicles, and other brands like QuantumScape, Solid Power, or Factorial Energy, that are already providing sample cells, etc. Plus all the big Chinese brands of course.
I think the world will see SSBs in high-end EVs by 2030. They’ll be in other EVs by 2035. If the tariffs and other anti-competition protectionism remains a policy in the US, we in the US won’t see them except for the most expensive EVs until 2040 or so.
 
Agreed here as well.

I wasn't meaning Doughnut, or other things like that. Just referencing things like Nissan, Mercedes, and other brands that are actually out there testing vehicles, and other brands like QuantumScape, Solid Power, or Factorial Energy, that are already providing sample cells, etc. Plus all the big Chinese brands of course.
Yeah, whatever happened to donut labs anyway? They were having weekly releases and now I don’t hear anything about them.
 
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I think I watched a Youtube video this week mentioning that VW should be getting SS test cells soon. The real problem is with ramped production, the first several years will most likely have massive early adopter premiums (they will be only in ultra high end vehicles). When/if they do meet their expectations AND get competitive in price - they will be a massive hit on EREV demand. Other than very remote locations on heavy vehicles - breaking 500 mile range and 15 minute charging really cuts into the EREV advantage.
 
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Yeah, whatever happened to donut labs anyway? They were having weekly releases and now I don’t hear anything about them.
Last I heard, they were under criminal investigation for false claims and misleading investors.


Indeed, VTT’s tests show a slight loss in capacity after just a few charging cycles, Gehring says. That suggests the battery couldn’t come close to achieving 100,000 cycles. And during tests that heated Donut’s cell to 100°C, its encapsulating pouch swelled and lost its vacuum seal. Wachsman says this suggests the cell contained a liquid that vaporized during the test, and is not a true SSB.

Gehring says the scant data make Donut’s product look like a pretty conventional lithium-ion battery, containing a cathode based on lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide and a graphite-silicon anode. “It would be quite the coincidence if they had found something that is an entirely different chemistry, but behaves exactly the same,” he says.
 
We have very rarely needed the 320 miles range in my Lightning, even while towing. We have a little over 93,000 miles combined on our two BEVs, more than half of that from road tripping over a hundred road trips (requiring an overnight stay away from home). We live and road trip in one of the larger DC Fast Charging deserts in the US.

The times we’ve been stymied by 320 miles range are countable on one hand. We have a preferred camping spot that is 410 miles round trip from home with no DCFC in between. We can do that trip by leaving home after work the night before our trip “officially” starts, stay at an RV site most of the way to our actual camping site, and get a full charge by the next day. We then drive the final ~45 miles to our campsite. When we arrive, we set out our solar panels and are recharged to 100% by the time we head home.

For comparison, we had similar accessibility issues with this camp site when we had a Toyota Tacoma. The nearest gas station (about 20 miles from our campsite) charged $8.99/gallon of gas in 2019. The next nearest (about 45 miles) charged $7.99/gallon. I haven’t seen their prices recently, but I would be surprised if either is below $10/gallon.

My most recent towing adventure was a total of around 800 miles round trip. I towed a 24-foot deck over heavy-duty trailer out to pick up a heavy load of greenhouse materials and large water cubes, which I then towed home. The trip home included an overall elevation gain of about 4,000 feet, though there are lots of valleys and mountains in between. I have always towed at 65 mph, and this trip was no different. The trip took just as long as it’s always taken me even when towing with the Tacoma. I never once worried about range or ability to get to my next charging stop. But I was glad to have the towing capacity of the Lightning vs the Tacoma; I wouldn’t have been able to do the trip with the Tacoma.
Given your experience with EVs, I'm curious about the towing. With your lightning, what would you expect the timing to look like to tow a Wrangler on trailer (6000 pounds) a total of 250 miles? Nearest charger to the end point (campsite with no power) is 30 miles away.
scout towing.jpg
 
Given your experience with EVs, I'm curious about the towing. With your lightning, what would you expect the timing to look like to tow a Wrangler on trailer (6000 pounds) a total of 250 miles? Nearest charger to the end point (campsite with no power) is 30 miles away.View attachment 15812

Disclaimer: There are so many variables that go into this that I’d be much more comfortable with knowing more about the specific route, climate/weather/elevation changes/etc during the trip, and what ever other variables you know ahead of time like speed, etc. You can also plug your specifics into the ABRP planner, tell it you’re towing a trailer, and ask it to give you an estimate. Note that ABRP is conservative and sometimes suggests a route isn’t possible when it is easily possible. You have to set your maximum speed because it sometimes assumes something like 90 mph as your maximum...


Assumptions:
  • It’s a time of year where the weather is neither terribly hot nor terribly cold;
  • You have to climb from, say, 2500 feet to 5000 feet on the way there and there are few, if any, extra valleys;
  • You’re on a two-lane mountain road as shown in the photo;
  • Winds are minimal;
  • Speed limit is 65 mph, but the mountain curves suggest 45-55 are the more responsible speeds;
  • Tires are at 51 PSI cold instead of the manufacturer door sticker of 36 PSI. You shouldn’t be towing with the lower pressure the manufacturer suggests, which is at least partly based on passenger comfort and not so much on towing stability and efficiency;
Start with the Lightning at 100%, 320-340 miles on the guessing-meter. You won’t get 320 miles while towing.
Driving at an average of 55 mph, sometimes climbing to 65, sometimes slowing to 45 or even slower when going through a town. Assume an average of 55 mph.

250 miles / 55 mph = 4.5 hours nominal travel time.

I would expect, if you don’t drive wildly, that you could get between 1.5 and 1.8 miles/kWh on the drive to your trailhead. I’ll assume it’s 1.5 miles/kWh. I’ve gotten as bad as 1.1 when I was racing a storm while towing a tractor and I went 75 mph up from ~4000 feet elevation to 7200 feet elevation over 50 miles. I can get worse if I try. I can get worse if the winds are bad or if there’s particularly bad weather.

These legs are made-up, based on first-leg number of hours I’d want to sit.

  • Leg 1: 138 miles; 2.5 hours
    • I wouldn’t drive for more than 2.5 hours myself because I don’t like to sit too long.
    • Start at 100%
    • Average speed of 55 mph for 2.5 hours = 138 miles.
    • 138 miles at 1.5 miles/kWh = 92 kWh.
    • 92 kWh of 131 kWh = 70%.
    • Truck is at 30% state of charge when you stop.
    • Charge to 85%; On the Lightning 30% to 85% would take about 20-25 minutes.
    • Total leg time: 2.83 hours
  • Leg 2: 82 miles; 1.5 hours
    • Stop at the charger that's 30 miles from your destination; 82 miles from your previous charger.
    • 82 miles / 1.5 miles/kWh = 55 kWh, or 42% used.
    • From 85% to 42% = 43% remaining.
    • Charge to 85%, which should take about 15 minutes.
    • Total leg time: 1.75 hours
  • Leg 3: 30 miles; 33 minutes
    • 30 miles / 1.5 miles/kWh = 20 kWh.
    • 20 kWh = 15% of the battery.
    • 85-15=70%
    • Total leg time: 0.5 hours
    • I would be carrying a solar system with a battery that can build up enough charge to charge the truck about 10-14 kWh per day. But let’s assume you don’t carry any solar.
  • Total travel time: About 5 hours.

Going home, you might be able to get 2.0-2.2 miles/kWh home, but estimate 1.8 miles/kWh.

  • Leg 1: 125 miles; 2.3 hours.
    • Starting with 70% state of charge.
    • Assume your first preferred homeward charger is 125 miles from the campsite.
    • To go 125 miles, you would use about 53%, bringing you down to 17%.
    • Charge to 65%. About 15-20 minutes.
    • I would charge to 60% to save money, but I know some people aren’t comfortable with that.
    • If you charge to 80%, it’ll add another 5-10 minutes.
    • Total leg time: 2.6 hours
  • Leg 2: 125 miles, 2.3 hours.
    • Starting with 65% state of charge
    • Use 53%
    • Arrive at home with 12%
    • Put the truck on the Level 2 charger and be ready for work the next morning.
  • Total travel time: About 5 hours (remember, you started at lower state of charge so your better efficiency didn’t save you total trip time, just saved money on the return trip).

Note: You don’t have to make the second stop on your way to the trailhead. You could skip it and arrive at the trailhead with about 28%. But then you probably want to stop at the first charger on your way home, and that’s only 30 miles from the trailhead. I’d probably stop on the way out and skip it on the way home.

If you get worse efficiency, it just changes how long your three charging stops are. Worst case, it might add about 10 minutes to each. Your total trip might be 10.5 hours instead of 10 hours.

Again, this is all guesswork without knowing more. What I will say is that I’ve never hesitated to tow across the US Southwest in the middle of summer with AC running.
 
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Disclaimer: There are so many variables that go into this that I’d be much more comfortable with knowing more about the specific route, climate/weather/elevation changes/etc during the trip, and what ever other variables you know ahead of time like speed, etc. You can also plug your specifics into the ABRP planner, tell it you’re towing a trailer, and ask it to give you an estimate. Note that ABRP is conservative and sometimes suggests a route isn’t possible when it is easily possible. You have to set your maximum speed because it sometimes assumes something like 90 mph as your maximum...


Assumptions:
  • It’s a time of year where the weather is neither terribly hot nor terribly cold;
  • You have to climb from, say, 2500 feet to 5000 feet on the way there and there are few, if any, extra valleys;
  • You’re on a two-lane mountain road as shown in the photo;
  • Winds are minimal;
  • Speed limit is 65 mph, but the mountain curves suggest 45-55 are the more responsible speeds;
  • Tires are at 51 PSI cold instead of the manufacturer door sticker of 36 PSI. You shouldn’t be towing with the lower pressure the manufacturer suggests, which is at least partly based on passenger comfort and not so much on towing stability and efficiency;
Start with the Lightning at 100%, 320-340 miles on the guessing-meter. You won’t get 320 miles while towing.
Driving at an average of 55 mph, sometimes climbing to 65, sometimes slowing to 45 or even slower when going through a town. Assume an average of 55 mph.

250 miles / 55 mph = 4.5 hours nominal travel time.

I would expect, if you don’t drive wildly, that you could get between 1.5 and 1.8 miles/kWh on the drive to your trailhead. I’ll assume it’s 1.5 miles/kWh. I’ve gotten as bad as 1.1 when I was racing a storm while towing a tractor and I went 75 mph up from ~4000 feet elevation to 7200 feet elevation over 50 miles. I can get worse if I try. I can get worse if the winds are bad or if there’s particularly bad weather.

These legs are made-up, based on first-leg number of hours I’d want to sit.

  • Leg 1: 138 miles; 2.5 hours
    • I wouldn’t drive for more than 2.5 hours myself because I don’t like to sit too long.
    • Start at 100%
    • Average speed of 55 mph for 2.5 hours = 138 miles.
    • 138 miles at 1.5 miles/kWh = 92 kWh.
    • 92 kWh of 131 kWh = 70%.
    • Truck is at 30% state of charge when you stop.
    • Charge to 85%; On the Lightning 30% to 85% would take about 20-25 minutes.
    • Total leg time: 2.83 hours
  • Leg 2: 82 miles; 1.5 hours
    • Stop at the charger that's 30 miles from your destination; 82 miles from your previous charger.
    • 82 miles / 1.5 miles/kWh = 55 kWh, or 42% used.
    • From 85% to 42% = 43% remaining.
    • Charge to 85%, which should take about 15 minutes.
    • Total leg time: 1.75 hours
  • Leg 3: 30 miles; 33 minutes
    • 30 miles / 1.5 miles/kWh = 20 kWh.
    • 20 kWh = 15% of the battery.
    • 85-15=70%
    • Total leg time: 0.5 hours
    • I would be carrying a solar system with a battery that can build up enough charge to charge the truck about 10-14 kWh per day. But let’s assume you don’t carry any solar.
  • Total travel time: About 5 hours.

Going home, you might be able to get 2.0-2.2 miles/kWh home, but estimate 1.8 miles/kWh.

  • Leg 1: 125 miles; 2.3 hours.
    • Starting with 70% state of charge.
    • Assume your first preferred homeward charger is 125 miles from the campsite.
    • To go 125 miles, you would use about 53%, bringing you down to 17%.
    • Charge to 65%. About 15-20 minutes.
    • I would charge to 60% to save money, but I know some people aren’t comfortable with that.
    • If you charge to 80%, it’ll add another 5-10 minutes.
    • Total leg time: 2.6 hours
  • Leg 2: 125 miles, 2.3 hours.
    • Starting with 65% state of charge
    • Use 53%
    • Arrive at home with 12%
    • Put the truck on the Level 2 charger and be ready for work the next morning.
  • Total travel time: About 5 hours (remember, you started at lower state of charge so your better efficiency didn’t save you total trip time, just saved money on the return trip).

Note: You don’t have to make the second stop on your way to the trailhead. You could skip it and arrive at the trailhead with about 28%. But then you probably want to stop at the first charger on your way home, and that’s only 30 miles from the trailhead. I’d probably stop on the way out and skip it on the way home.

If you get worse efficiency, it just changes how long your three charging stops are. Worst case, it might add about 10 minutes to each. Your total trip might be 10.5 hours instead of 10 hours.

Again, this is all guesswork without knowing more. What I will say is that I’ve never hesitated to tow across the US Southwest in the middle of summer with AC running.
You just made my brain wrinkle....
 
I wanted to be thorough.

Assuming 55 mph average speed on mountain roads.

Trip out:
It will probably take a total of no more than 5 hours with two stops.

Trip home:
It’ll probably take no more than 5 hours and one stop.
I really value your input. Especially since you drive both distance and elevation as well as weather. I am learning so much from your posts. Thank you.
 
Given your experience with EVs, I'm curious about the towing. With your lightning, what would you expect the timing to look like to tow a Wrangler on trailer (6000 pounds) a total of 250 miles? Nearest charger to the end point (campsite with no power) is 30 miles away.
Note:

There’s almost nowhere in Virginia that’s farther than 50 miles of driving (along roads, not straight-line) from at least three DCFCs. The mountains between WV and VA are one such place, which is, I imagine, a popular off-roading area (but I’ve never been so don’t know). And down by Kentucky there are some places where there are only one or two DCFC stations within 50 miles driving distance.

The grey squiggly-sided polygons in this image are the 50-mile driving radii from each DCFC. Where the green topo map is showing through there are fewer (or no) DCFCs within 50 miles of driving distance. Or there are no mapped roads in those areas. Several seem like they’re within the driving distance but the Open Street Map database doesn’t have any roads catalogued.

Screenshot 2026-05-12 at 21.22.17.png