Torn
- Thread starter bbls0627
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I have been thinking of changing over to BEV and your information is very helpful.......and thorough.
You are converting lots of us, one educational post at a time.
Once SSBs hit production, do you anticipate seeing them in EVs or cell phones first? I've always assumed they'd hit cell phones first where the pricing premium for the battery wouldn't be as big of a deal as in EVs.
SSBs are in use in very small, high-criticality devices such as pacemakers, other implantable devices, stationary devices in remote places, and in some drones.
Samsung is talking about being first to market with cell phone SSBs. Phones sit in an odd space where they generate high margins compared with many other electronics. I don’t know how much the high cost premium of an SSB is attractive to manufacturers. I also don’t think they want long-lived phones—if replacement schedules are 4 years instead of 2 years, manufacturers cut their profitability almost in half. Most phone use-cases don’t *need* much better batteries. My phone will last two days. I can plop it on a charger a dozen different times a day and it’ll last many days even if I never get it to 100%. Another issue is kind of ridiculous: any battery with a capacity higher than a legally-set limit must be labeled as a “dangerous” product and cannot be brought onto a plane (neither cabin nor cargo). Many cell phone batteries are already bumping up against this limit. Obviously that can be changed, but it hasn’t been...
Watches, on the other hand, might benefit more. Huawei chose to go with Si-C to replace the graphite anode of a typical liquid electrolyte Li battery and have much higher energy density (Wh/L) and higher specific energy (Wh/kg) batteries in production. Their devices are running about 10x longer than other device manufacturers using standard LFP batteries. I have one of their watches. I've been wearing it for three and a half days and it's at 81%. In part it’s because of better software and in part it’s because of better battery tech.
I suspect that there will likely be at least one more liquid electrolyte “revolution” before we get solid state batteries in vehicles.
I will respectfully disagree. I think the increased chatter is only because you are paying attention to it. I have been reading these exact same stories for over 15 years. Only the names of the companies change. I still believe SSBs have critical stability issues in high vibration environments like a car.
Don't get me wrong, I do hope we eventually crack it (or come up with a different solution) but I have been duped so many times. I am sorry but anyone putting dates around SSBs in vehicles is just guessing.
They absolutely have major issues. They have volumetric changes during manufacturing that pulls the solid electrolytes away from the electrodes and renders them unusable. They have major issues with stability. They have major issues in lots of places.
This is one set of reasons that we won't see a small potatoes battery company in the US achieve market first. The major manufacturers in China and Korea are the ones to pay attention to. They have consistently said they won't be able to make market before 2030.
I hear you there, and no offense taken at all.
I've not been following this for 15 years, but I have been for 6 years or so. And it just seems to me like the rate of discussion, and the relative "seriousness" of the announcements have increased. And that the announcements have changed somewhat. Meaning instead of just "in the lab" announcements, we're seeing later stage test cells being delivered, production facilities ramping, and people testing in actual vehicles.
I did find it interesting that Jamies post today about SSB's seems to indicate that people in the industry actually think they'll be happening as well, with similar-ish timeframes (~2030 at the earliest).
Let's play nice...
That video makes a number of assumptions that I won't go into here. We have a lot of seasoned engineers at Scout, and as part of the broader VW Group, we have substantial resources, including further engineering and battery technology. AI can't tell you what is coming and when. AI can only pull data from what already exists and what has been published online (both factual and non-factual). That's why asking AI about Scout doesn't usually work well. AI is pulling data from...
That said, I'm totally open to the possibility that I'm wrong, and am influenced by the increased coverage without as much historical context. And either way, first iteration of Scouts is all but guaranteed to not have SSB's. But the next generation seems like they may actually start becoming an option.
He’s definitely our chief engineer/rocket scientist/EV guru/etc…. And hope you know how much we appreciate the time you give to all us newb’s
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