We own EVs. Ask Us Anything.

[SpaceEVDriver]

Depending on the source, Tesla seems to have to the most reliable network, compared to say EA, I’ve yet to see the local superchargers to be offline, but same can be said for the L3s at the Electric company parking lot (those have been there longer), I can say the same for the Mercedes branded ChargePoint DCFCs at bucees, but most L2s here (blink) are offline, and 40% of the times I’ve visited an EA DCFC 2 or more have been offline.

The the initial point, we were looking to see how feasible the event on the 20th would be, so I checked the route on Google, not a single SuperCharger appeared, then I did a route in the Chevy app and all three stops were SCs

I’ve been tracking my DCFC sessions for four years. I have made hundreds of stops at DCFC in my ~90,000 miles of driving.

I’ve have seen down plugs about 15% of the time I’ve used EA.
I’ve have seen down plugs about 50% of the time I’ve used brand-T.

The difference is that brand-T usually has 12 or more charging plugs at its stations, so a station with two or more offline plugs doesn’t stop charging for most users. But EA usually has 4 or 8 plugs at its stations, so even one offline plug has a greater overall impact on the users of that station. EA has significantly improved over the past two years and I have only encountered one EA station with an offline plug in the past year.

 

[R1TVT]

Not a fan of Elon (at all), but have never NOT been able to charge at a Tesla DCFC (probably to your point that they simply have so many stations at each site that when 1 is down, you do not notice it). EA on the East Coast tends to have something like 4-6 stations at each site I'm guessing? They are not as reliable here, and they tend to get severly rate de-liminated at peak times in the summer (which I have never seen charging at other DCFC's). The rate de-limiting is probably my biggest gripe with my past EA charging experiences, simply because it can become unplanned-for time on a road trip when you encounter it.

For the most part, and whenever I route past Rivian chargers, I just go to Rivian RAN sites. They have become much busier since they have opened them to other brands, but are generally highly reliable and have good availability even with other brands taking advantage now.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Not a fan of Elon (at all), but have never NOT been able to charge at a Tesla DCFC (probably to your point that they simply have so many stations at each site that when 1 is down, you do not notice it). EA on the East Coast tends to have something like 4-6 stations at each site I'm guessing? They are not as reliable here, and they tend to get severly rate de-liminated at peak times in the summer (which I have never seen charging at other DCFC's). The rate de-limiting is probably my biggest gripe with my past EA charging experiences, simply because it can become unplanned-for time on a road trip when you encounter it.

For the most part, and whenever I route past Rivian chargers, I just go to Rivian RAN sites. They have become much busier since they have opened them to other brands, but are generally highly reliable and have good availability even with other brands taking advantage now.

I usually avoid SCs for two reasons.

First, the charge rate is usually 10-50% slower than I’ve been able to get at other charging stations. RAN is usually the fastest. Unless I happen to take a 350 kW EA plug, which I try to avoid unless it’s the only thing available. Our Fords can’t make full use of the 350 kW plugs, so we try to leave them open for those who can.

I also avoid SCs because while I can almost always charge if there’s an open plug, the habit of T drivers to park every-other-space means unless the station has more than 12 plugs, there’s often not an open plug even with 50% of the plugs technically not in use.

 

[bwdavis7]

T drivers to park every-other-space means unless the station has more than 12 plugs, there’s often not an open plug even with 50% of the plugs technically not in use.

I've never used T-brand (only had EV a few weeks). Help me understand. Couldn't you pull between into an unused space? Or is it that you think the T drivers would shame you?

I was considering going to a T-brand in Columbia for the Scout shows just to experience and learn. Last trip to Columbia I used EA which was just fine. It was limited to 4 spaces. I was fortunate to get the last open space but only needed to charge about 10 minutes.

 

[R1TVT]

Oh yes, I would pull RTF in there if there was an opening... Or, off the end of a bank of chargers to reach one (if possible).

 

[maynard]

Man, I have many questions. I have finally gotten over the fear of range anxiety after I realized that I have similar range in my 2022 bronco. Let's be real, even in an ice vehicle you still have to plan your routes to make sure you can get gas. Anyways, as someone who does drive an ice vehicle my reason for the change is simple. I am tired of gas prices and honestly feel like it's time to make a change. unfortunately, I was dumb and well overpaid for my bronco (thanks hype train XD) that is not to say I don't love my bronco. But if I do things right, I should have it paid off by 2028-2029 and I pre-ordered the full EV and that won't be out for a little while longer.

I am aware this is kind of lengthy, but I felt a little background was important. I'd really love to know how I should prepare. what are some things I should get. how should I expect it to drive like. etc. etc. lay it all out for me!

Welcome to the forum!

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I've never used T-brand (only had EV a few weeks). Help me understand. Couldn't you pull between into an unused space? Or is it that you think the T drivers would shame you?

It’s a geometry issue. Most SCs use very short charging cables (it’s how they get the high amperage current with smaller diameter cables). The SC post location in a charging/parking space is such that it’s intended for rear-driver corner (or front-passenger corner). Ford has its charge ports on the front-driver corner, the opposite location. The SC charge cables are too short to reach around the front of the Ford vehicles to the charge port. So to use a charging plug at a SC, I usually have to use two parking slots. I can’t do that when every other slot is in use.

This is one reason I keep recommending to Scout that they put the charge port in the front-passenger corner of the vehicle.

• CCS1 charge cables are generally much longer and can reach basically all vehicle charge port locations, so those chargers are more inclusive
• The front-passenger and rear-driver location is geometrically identical, so a front-passenger charge port can make use of the SC short cables without using two parking slots
• The front-passenger charge port location is more amenable for towing. The vast majority of DCFC charging stations are pull-in or back-in. Having to drop the trailer for a back-in charging adds one more complication to charging while towing on a road trip.

 

[bwdavis7]

It’s a geometry issue. Most SCs use very short charging cables (it’s how they get the high amperage current with smaller diameter cables). The SC post location in a charging/parking space is such that it’s intended for rear-driver corner (or front-passenger corner). Ford has its charge ports on the front-driver corner, the opposite location. The SC charge cables are too short to reach around the front of the Ford vehicles to the charge port. So to use a charging plug at a SC, I usually have to use two parking slots. I can’t do that when every other slot is in use.

This is one reason I keep recommending to Scout that they put the charge port in the front-passenger corner of the vehicle.

• CCS1 charge cables are generally much longer and can reach basically all vehicle charge port locations, so those chargers are more inclusive
• The front-passenger and rear-driver location is geometrically identical, so a front-passenger charge port can make use of the SC short cables without using two parking slots
• The front-passenger charge port location is more amenable for towing. The vast majority of DCFC charging stations are pull-in or back-in. Having to drop the trailer for a back-in charging adds one more complication to charging while towing on a road trip.

Thanks for the explanation. My Ioniq 5 charge port is on the passenger rear corner so potentially an issue too. It would certainly be more convenient almost any other corner in my opinion. Not sure if there was a reason Hyundai positioned it there. Maybe I'll try T-brand just to be aware.

 

[maynard]

It’s a geometry issue. Most SCs use very short charging cables (it’s how they get the high amperage current with smaller diameter cables). The SC post location in a charging/parking space is such that it’s intended for rear-driver corner (or front-passenger corner). Ford has its charge ports on the front-driver corner, the opposite location. The SC charge cables are too short to reach around the front of the Ford vehicles to the charge port. So to use a charging plug at a SC, I usually have to use two parking slots. I can’t do that when every other slot is in use.

This is one reason I keep recommending to Scout that they put the charge port in the front-passenger corner of the vehicle.

• CCS1 charge cables are generally much longer and can reach basically all vehicle charge port locations, so those chargers are more inclusive
• The front-passenger and rear-driver location is geometrically identical, so a front-passenger charge port can make use of the SC short cables without using two parking slots
• The front-passenger charge port location is more amenable for towing. The vast majority of DCFC charging stations are pull-in or back-in. Having to drop the trailer for a back-in charging adds one more complication to charging while towing on a road trip.

I know I've said it before, but want to reiterate that your knowledge and insight is *greatly* appreciated on this forum. Your contributions (and those from others as well) really help the laypersons - probably more than you know...

 

[bwdavis7]

The front-passenger charge port location is more amenable for towing. The vast majority of DCFC charging stations are pull-in or back-in. Having to drop the trailer for a back-in charging adds one more complication to charging while towing on a road trip.

Hopefully Scout is listening. Another minor reason for the front is that I carry my charging adapters in the frunk. Just for the convenience and due to my laziness, it would be nice if all charging activities were in one place. Now when I go on longer trips, I just put the adapter I think I will be using in the rear floorboard where it is handy.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Hopefully Scout is listening. Another minor reason for the front is that I carry my charging adapters in the frunk. Just for the convenience and due to my laziness, it would be nice if all charging activities were in one place. Now when I go on longer trips, I just put the adapter I think I will be using in the rear floorboard where it is handy.

We have our main adapters in the door pocket or center console, which makes them grab-and-go without having to open anything extra. Instead of a silly flashlight in the door as another manufacturer does, it would be cool if Scout provides a DCFC adapter that slots into the door for easy access.

 

[bwdavis7]

We have our main adapters in the door pocket or center console, which makes them grab-and-go without having to open anything extra. Instead of a silly flashlight in the door as another manufacturer does, it would be cool if Scout provides a DCFC adapter that slots into the door for easy access.

What would be genius is if the receptacle on the Scout would "self-adapt" as you are plugging in the connector.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

What would be genius is if the receptacle on the Scout would "self-adapt" as you are plugging in the connector.

I’m not sure how that would work…

 

[bwdavis7]

I’m not sure how that would work…

Yep, exactly. That's as far as my thought process took it.

 

[6-ScoutFamily]

I did some rounding and it's entirely possible I made arithmetic mistakes. What are you seeing that doesn't match?

The hour figure in COL. 6 makes sense for 100 miles, not 40 miles. For example: 240V/20A is 12 miles for a 2.5/kWh vehicle. Wouldn’t 40 miles be 3.33 hours instead of 8.3?

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

The hour figure in COL. 6 makes sense for 100 miles, not 40 miles. For example: 240V/20A is 12 miles for a 2.5/kWh vehicle. Wouldn’t 40 miles be 3.33 hours instead of 8.3?

Yes. Thanks for checking!

I believe this is correct, but welcome additional checks.

Level of charger	Voltage	Amperage to the vehicle (Amps)	Charge rate (kW)	Miles recharged per hour, assuming 2.5 miles/kWh efficiency	Hours to recharge 40 miles, assuming 2.5 miles/kWh	Miles recharged per hour, assuming 4 miles/kWh efficiency	Hours to recharge 40 miles, assuming 4 miles/kWh.
Level 1	120	12	1.4	3.6	11.4	5.6	7.1
Level 2	240	20	4.8	12	3.3	19	2.1
Level 2	240	30	7.2	18	2.2	29	1.4
Level 2	240	40	9.6	24	1.7	38	1.0
Level 2	240	48 (typical maximum)	11.5	29	1.4	46	0.87
Level 2	240	80 (maximum, not available to the Scout)	19.2	48	0.83	77	0.5

 

[Logan]

Thanks for the explanation. My Ioniq 5 charge port is on the passenger rear corner so potentially an issue too. It would certainly be more convenient almost any other corner in my opinion. Not sure if there was a reason Hyundai positioned it there. Maybe I'll try T-brand just to be aware.

The vehicles with the charging port on the passenger rear, have them there because that lets you street park and charge easier.

Given, thats not a hugely common thing at the moment, but it is becoming increasingly so. We're seeing things like street lamps becoming charging stations, even in the US.

Curbside Charging Archives

electrek.co

The funny part to me here, that the Tesla charging port location of driver side rear... was done simply because it fit the logistics of the garage that Elon Musk had at the time. Which seems very on brand for them.

Tesla's charge port location is due to Elon Musk's garage layout, says Lucid CEO

Lucid CEO and former Tesla chief engineer Peter Rawlinson claims that Tesla’s charge port location, and why everyone has to...

electrek.co

 

[BeerParty]

You can use a regular outlet. But it charges more slowly on 120 volts than 240 volts.

Assume a vehicle gets 2.5 miles/kWh, which is okay for a truck at around-town and pretty decent for a truck at highway speeds. These will be the typical charge rates, times, and etc for an AC (Level 1 or Level 2) charger.

Level of charger	Voltage	Amperage to the vehicle (Amps)	Charge rate (kW)	Miles recharged per hour, assuming 2.5 miles/kWh efficiency	Hours to recharge 40 miles, assuming 2.5 miles/kWh	Miles recharged per hour, assuming 4 miles/kWh efficiency	Hours to recharge 40 miles, assuming 4 miles/kWh.
Level 1	120	12	1.4	3.6	11	5.8	6.9
Level 2	240	20	4.8	12	8.3	19	2.1
Level 2	240	30	7.2	18	5.6	29	1.4
Level 2	240	40	9.6	24	4.2	38	~1
Level 2	240	48 (typical maximum)	11.5	29	3.5	46	~1
Level 2	240	80 (maximum, not available to the Scout)	19.2	48	2.1	77	0.5

My sister has a Mustang Mach-E and lives in an apartment. She is not allowed to install a Level 2 charger, so she uses Level 1. She drives a little over 40 miles a day for work, school, errands, etc. With the ~4 miles/kWh average efficiency she gets, the above chart is too conservative. Every night, she uses the Level 1 to recharge more energy on her battery than she uses each day. By the weekend, she has about 100% charge. If she ever needs more charge for some extra driving, she will go to one of the dozens Level 2 chargers around her work, school, shopping, etc. Usually just half an hour on a 40 Amp (9.6 kW) Level 2 charger will recover enough to catch her up.

You can fill in the chart for an assumed efficiency.

@SpaceEVDriver You need to check the math on this chart. For Level-2 240V 30amp, the table has "Miles recharged per hour = 18" and in the next cell the table has "Hours to recharge 40 miles = 5.6". That can't be right. If you are recharging 18 miles per hour, it will only take 2.2 hours to recharge 40 miles, not 5.6.

Never mind, I see it has already been corrected.

 

[Mousehunter]

Per a quick google, Tesla 150kw charging stations split power between stalls. So people park at every other one out of convince, speed and etiquette (as generally adjacent stalls are the ones splitting power). I want to charge as fast as possible, I don't want to be that person who slows down my neighbors charging rate. Plus, it is easier to open my door if there is not a car next to me...

 

[bwdavis7]

The vehicles with the charging port on the passenger rear, have them there because that lets you street park and charge easier.

Given, thats not a hugely common thing at the moment, but it is becoming increasingly so. We're seeing things like street lamps becoming charging stations, even in the US.

Curbside Charging Archives

electrek.co

The funny part to me here, that the Tesla charging port location of driver side rear... was done simply because it fit the logistics of the garage that Elon Musk had at the time. Which seems very on brand for them.

Tesla's charge port location is due to Elon Musk's garage layout, says Lucid CEO

Lucid CEO and former Tesla chief engineer Peter Rawlinson claims that Tesla’s charge port location, and why everyone has to...

electrek.co

That explains a lot. Thanks!
In that case, it would seem that front passenger would be better if the cable could reach the front. That would allow for diagonal curbside parking hookup as well. That would also be better for those towing trailers. Of course, I might not have considered some other situation.