Higher Range

[ejwl]

I saw the expected range is 350 miles and up 500 with the range extender. I would be nice to have a higher base range like 400 or 450. The rivian r1s range is 410 and the lucid gravity range is estimated at 450. In order to keep up with the competition the amount of range should be matched or exceeded. 400 base range and 500 with the extender is a good start.

 

[J Alynn]

I think 300-350 is about the minimum that I'd want in a vehicle. Especially considering the normal "buffer" you want to keep, and the effects of weather/speed.

Here is a copy paste of a post of mine in another thread. I did a ~840 mile road trip (~1700 mile round trip, each leg of 840 miles completed in a single day) this summer (like every other summer). I was curious and I kept track of our distance between stops, and their length (as I'm considering a full EV). Maybe this will be interesting for others.


-----------Copy/Pasta----------


I just did a ~840 mile road trip on Sunday, and have been curious about this, so I was actually counting, and timing our stops.

Keep in mind this is a single day, one way trip (ie, just the return leg of a road trip to visit family). Also, keep in mind the below is all averaging about 75-80mph (we drove WA to UT, and this leg was from UT to WA. Most of Idaho and northern UT are 80mph speed limits, with people going way faster than tha)t.

Also, our vehicle has a tiny fuel tank (11gal, because its a PHEV), and I have a mountain bike on the back on a rack. All these things together (high speeds, tiny tank, bad aero because of bike). And not once was the range the main limiting factor. Although it was very close on the first stop.

Stop 1: 258 miles, over3 hours of drive time, and a ~15-20 min stop (I forgot to time this one exactly). There were lines at the fuel pumps (every pump was full, and there were at least 5-6 vehicles towing, with the line out almost to the street).

This had the highest avg speed of the trip.

This was the closest to an actual fuel range limit. We had under 1/8 tank left, the fuel light was on, and it showed an estimated 9 miles of range remaining when we pulled up to the pump. But the kids had been clamoring for a bathroom break for 20 miles before then, and I was pushing the range a bit, wanting to get to a better place to stop. Ended up putting 9.998 gal into the 11 gal tank.

Also, FWIW, I still had ~90% battery charge here, so if we were really in a bad spot, I could have turned off the gas engine, and had ~20-30 miles more range to get us to another pump if something went wrong getting fuel somehow. So while I was pushing it, I wasn't totally crazy .

Stop 2: 207 miles. 11 minute stop, timed with a stopwatch.

limited by kids bladders. Still had like 1/4 tank or so.

Stop 3: 221 miles, 9 minute stop, also actually timed from moment we drove in, to moment we were pulling out of the gas station.

Same as above, about the kid bladder limit.

Keep in mind we're averaging ~80mph or so on these. And even at those speeds, thats 2hrs 45min of driving, which isn't bad.

That... was it. The last leg home fit under the kids bladder timer limit, and we made it home with like half a tank of gas. ~830 miles with 3 stops, and ~35min of stoppage time.

We didn't stop for anything but what you see above. We have all our food in the car (wayyy easier with kids, who are often hungry RIGHT NOW, and have a hard time waiting for a fast food place, we just get a bunch of good food/snacks in a cooler, and we graze as we go, because eliminating food stops chops a bunch of time off the trip (its easy to spend ~30min or more at a fast food place).

I didn't think to get the data on the way there, at least not the specific mileage/times. But I do know that we stopped 5 times on the way there, and at least one of the stops had a HUGE line at the bathroom (when we were only an hour from home... of course), and we were likely there at least 20-30minutes. I'd say that leg of the trip we had a combined total of at least ~1hr - 1hr 15min of stoppage time, and we were limited entirely by bladders, rather than fuel.

Sorry, huge rambling post.

TLDR: I think for non-towing use cases, ~350 miles of range is totally fine for families with kids, even at high speeds

For towing, the range changes considerably. Also, 350 miles of range could not be enough for those with super bladders, diapers (children or adult), or really low average speeds (350 miles on a ~50mph highway is about an hr more drive time than at ~85mph)

I recall this post and it was helpful as a real world reference

 

[TelemarkingSailor]

I live in Washington state too, and I'm planning on getting the Harvester option.

We currently have a 2019 Kia Niro PHEV. It's got 26 miles of range (newer models are 30+) and most days in the city (Seattle) we never use that up before being able to recharge.

But the reason I want a Scout is so I can be more confident traveling in the mountain passes during ski season. I'm so sick of having to put chains on! I'm also eager to feel more confident climbing Forest Service roads that have big ruts or giant, water-filled potholes.

My range anxiety really just comes down to: "Can I make it to a National Park and spend a weekend at a camp site?" I'm not entirely sure of the answer, but I have seen Teslas and Rivians in some of the places I'd like to go. Maybe the Harvester would be overkill and I'd be fine with a BEV.

I remember going up to Mt. Ranier this past winter in a Bolt. The range indicator made it look like we wouldn't make it, but we took secondary roads instead of highway and I guess all the stop and go really helped because we made it there and back without having to charge.

Regenerative charging and good software that helps predict range based on terrain and vehicle weight probably end up going a very long way to helping out on range.

Not exactly sure what I would search on and wonder if it's already been covered... but if the Harvester "recharges the battery" but doesn't "drive the wheels", then is it the type of thing you'd "turn on" at like 40% charge remaining and let it charge the battery while you are still moving, stop at a gas station, refill, and then turn it on again to keep charging while you are moving?

 

[strider]

My range anxiety really just comes down to: "Can I make it to a National Park and spend a weekend at a camp site?" I'm not entirely sure of the answer, but I have seen Teslas and Rivians in some of the places I'd like to go. Maybe the Harvester would be overkill and I'd be fine with a BEV.

Do the places you camp have RV spots? If so then you can rent one of those for 1 night and charge. We have done that with our Tesla before. Those RV spots have 240V/50A plugs - you can easily fill up in order to head home.

Not exactly sure what I would search on and wonder if it's already been covered... but if the Harvester "recharges the battery" but doesn't "drive the wheels", then is it the type of thing you'd "turn on" at like 40% charge remaining and let it charge the battery while you are still moving, stop at a gas station, refill, and then turn it on again to keep charging while you are moving?

Scout has said that Harvester will have multiple modes wherein you can have it keep the battery topped off so it will run the engine a ton, use the battery up and run the engine as little as possible (say you are just running around town and will be home to charge) or an automatic mode to let the vehicle handle it. We'll find out more details as they get closer to launch.

 

[TelemarkingSailor]

Do the places you camp have RV spots? If so then you can rent one of those for 1 night and charge. We have done that with our Tesla before. Those RV spots have 240V/50A plugs - you can easily fill up in order to head home.

We generally tend to use the tent-only spots because they are a little easier to get and some of the camp sites we go to don't have ANY electricity at all. But, carrying 240v charging cable does seem like a good idea. I'm actually super-pro the idea that we move to Bring Your Own cable charging stations. There's even a company in the U.S. where you can sign up for their network and get a free cable.

Scout has said that Harvester will have multiple modes wherein you can have it keep the battery topped off so it will run the engine a ton, use the battery up and run the engine as little as possible (say you are just running around town and will be home to charge) or an automatic mode to let the vehicle handle it. We'll find out more details as they get closer to launch.

Thanks for sharing that info. It seems like they've got a really great software team that is trying to live up to the great Scout heritage.

 

[cyure]

I live in Washington state too, and I'm planning on getting the Harvester option.

We currently have a 2019 Kia Niro PHEV. It's got 26 miles of range (newer models are 30+) and most days in the city (Seattle) we never use that up before being able to recharge.

But the reason I want a Scout is so I can be more confident traveling in the mountain passes during ski season. I'm so sick of having to put chains on! I'm also eager to feel more confident climbing Forest Service roads that have big ruts or giant, water-filled potholes.

My range anxiety really just comes down to: "Can I make it to a National Park and spend a weekend at a camp site?" I'm not entirely sure of the answer, but I have seen Teslas and Rivians in some of the places I'd like to go. Maybe the Harvester would be overkill and I'd be fine with a BEV.

I remember going up to Mt. Ranier this past winter in a Bolt. The range indicator made it look like we wouldn't make it, but we took secondary roads instead of highway and I guess all the stop and go really helped because we made it there and back without having to charge.

Regenerative charging and good software that helps predict range based on terrain and vehicle weight probably end up going a very long way to helping out on range.

Not exactly sure what I would search on and wonder if it's already been covered... but if the Harvester "recharges the battery" but doesn't "drive the wheels", then is it the type of thing you'd "turn on" at like 40% charge remaining and let it charge the battery while you are still moving, stop at a gas station, refill, and then turn it on again to keep charging while you are moving?

I don’t have exact answers to your questions but there is a video that talks about the Harvester. It’s either one of the ones from CES or the Jay Lenos Garage video, anyway it shows multiple settings for the Harvester. You could select battery only, Harvester only or let your Scout decide where to pull the power from.

As for camping in an EV @SpaceEVDriver is a great follow for that. He camps in his Lightning and has posted lots of info about his trips and camping in a BEV.

There’s lots of info on here. There’s a thread called We Own EVs ask us anything and that has a lot of info as well. Have fun searching the forum.

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

I live in Washington state too, and I'm planning on getting the Harvester option.

We currently have a 2019 Kia Niro PHEV. It's got 26 miles of range (newer models are 30+) and most days in the city (Seattle) we never use that up before being able to recharge.

But the reason I want a Scout is so I can be more confident traveling in the mountain passes during ski season. I'm so sick of having to put chains on! I'm also eager to feel more confident climbing Forest Service roads that have big ruts or giant, water-filled potholes.

My range anxiety really just comes down to: "Can I make it to a National Park and spend a weekend at a camp site?" I'm not entirely sure of the answer, but I have seen Teslas and Rivians in some of the places I'd like to go. Maybe the Harvester would be overkill and I'd be fine with a BEV.

I remember going up to Mt. Ranier this past winter in a Bolt. The range indicator made it look like we wouldn't make it, but we took secondary roads instead of highway and I guess all the stop and go really helped because we made it there and back without having to charge.

Regenerative charging and good software that helps predict range based on terrain and vehicle weight probably end up going a very long way to helping out on range.

Not exactly sure what I would search on and wonder if it's already been covered... but if the Harvester "recharges the battery" but doesn't "drive the wheels", then is it the type of thing you'd "turn on" at like 40% charge remaining and let it charge the battery while you are still moving, stop at a gas station, refill, and then turn it on again to keep charging while you are moving?

I’ve reserved the Harvester option as well. There’s just too much rural area in Montana for me to get over range anxiety.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

We always carry our mobile (L1 and L2) charger and several adapters and extension cords. We do a fair amount of boondocking/tent camping in addition to long road trips that involve either camping or hoteling. When we know we’ll be camping far from a charger, we also bring solar and auxiliary batteries so we can recharge a little bit while camped.

National and state parks are our go-to for adventures and camping. Sometimes we camp where there are RV hookups, and sometimes we camp where there’s no electricity. We haven’t struggled to get to where we want to go. We wouldn’t hesitate to go anywhere in North America with the Lightning or the Mustang (not so much offroading in the Mustang).

Here’s an out-of-date map of our EV adventures. We’re based in northern Arizona.

 

[pwrofgrayskull]

I think 300-350 is about the minimum that I'd want in a vehicle. Especially considering the normal "buffer" you want to keep, and the effects of weather/speed.

Here is a copy paste of a post of mine in another thread. I did a ~840 mile road trip (~1700 mile round trip, each leg of 840 miles completed in a single day) this summer (like every other summer). I was curious and I kept track of our distance between stops, and their length (as I'm considering a full EV). Maybe this will be interesting for others.


-----------Copy/Pasta----------


I just did a ~840 mile road trip on Sunday, and have been curious about this, so I was actually counting, and timing our stops.

Keep in mind this is a single day, one way trip (ie, just the return leg of a road trip to visit family). Also, keep in mind the below is all averaging about 75-80mph (we drove WA to UT, and this leg was from UT to WA. Most of Idaho and northern UT are 80mph speed limits, with people going way faster than tha)t.

Also, our vehicle has a tiny fuel tank (11gal, because its a PHEV), and I have a mountain bike on the back on a rack. All these things together (high speeds, tiny tank, bad aero because of bike). And not once was the range the main limiting factor. Although it was very close on the first stop.

Stop 1: 258 miles, over3 hours of drive time, and a ~15-20 min stop (I forgot to time this one exactly). There were lines at the fuel pumps (every pump was full, and there were at least 5-6 vehicles towing, with the line out almost to the street).

This had the highest avg speed of the trip.

This was the closest to an actual fuel range limit. We had under 1/8 tank left, the fuel light was on, and it showed an estimated 9 miles of range remaining when we pulled up to the pump. But the kids had been clamoring for a bathroom break for 20 miles before then, and I was pushing the range a bit, wanting to get to a better place to stop. Ended up putting 9.998 gal into the 11 gal tank.

Also, FWIW, I still had ~90% battery charge here, so if we were really in a bad spot, I could have turned off the gas engine, and had ~20-30 miles more range to get us to another pump if something went wrong getting fuel somehow. So while I was pushing it, I wasn't totally crazy .

Stop 2: 207 miles. 11 minute stop, timed with a stopwatch.

limited by kids bladders. Still had like 1/4 tank or so.

Stop 3: 221 miles, 9 minute stop, also actually timed from moment we drove in, to moment we were pulling out of the gas station.

Same as above, about the kid bladder limit.

Keep in mind we're averaging ~80mph or so on these. And even at those speeds, thats 2hrs 45min of driving, which isn't bad.

That... was it. The last leg home fit under the kids bladder timer limit, and we made it home with like half a tank of gas. ~830 miles with 3 stops, and ~35min of stoppage time.

We didn't stop for anything but what you see above. We have all our food in the car (wayyy easier with kids, who are often hungry RIGHT NOW, and have a hard time waiting for a fast food place, we just get a bunch of good food/snacks in a cooler, and we graze as we go, because eliminating food stops chops a bunch of time off the trip (its easy to spend ~30min or more at a fast food place).

I didn't think to get the data on the way there, at least not the specific mileage/times. But I do know that we stopped 5 times on the way there, and at least one of the stops had a HUGE line at the bathroom (when we were only an hour from home... of course), and we were likely there at least 20-30minutes. I'd say that leg of the trip we had a combined total of at least ~1hr - 1hr 15min of stoppage time, and we were limited entirely by bladders, rather than fuel.

Sorry, huge rambling post.

TLDR: I think for non-towing use cases, ~350 miles of range is totally fine for families with kids, even at high speeds

For towing, the range changes considerably. Also, 350 miles of range could not be enough for those with super bladders, diapers (children or adult), or really low average speeds (350 miles on a ~50mph highway is about an hr more drive time than at ~85mph)

Great info, thanks for sharing! This is the way we take our trips - mostly just driving without piddling about with a bunch of stops.

 

[Murraypetera]

With current battery technology, larger battery = quicker charging.
After a year or so and 30–40k miles, range is lost and charge speeds drop.

80% charge is also required to maintain battery health and charging past that level is very very slow.

Options for larger battery would be wonderful. With the competition hitting 400-600 miles range, 350 should be the base level for BEV.

 

[R1TVT]

With current battery technology, larger battery = quicker charging.
After a year or so and 30–40k miles, range is lost and charge speeds drop.

80% charge is also required to maintain battery health and charging past that level is very very slow.

Options for larger battery would be wonderful. With the competition hitting 400-600 miles range, 350 should be the base level for BEV.

I have over 50K miles on my 2022 R1T, and this is not the case at all. I have seen no range loss and my charging speeds are very stable. Charging to 80% is NOT a requirement, and while charging from 80 to 100% does hit the slower part of the charge curve, I have rarely had the need to charge to 100% from any DCFC charger. In fact, the ONLY time i charge to 100% is when I am at home and leaving for a long road trip.

Sorry if that is not the case for your EV

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I have over 50K miles on my 2022 R1T, and this is not the case at all. I have seen no range loss and my charging speeds are very stable. Charging to 80% is NOT a requirement, and while charging from 80 to 100% does hit the slower part of the charge curve, I have rarely had the need to charge to 100% from any DCFC charger. In fact, the ONLY time i charge to 100% is when I am at home and leaving for a long road trip.

Sorry if that is not the case for your EV

Yeah, I have >75k on our EVs (2022 and 2023) and there’s been no range loss at all. Charging speeds have improved as Ford has become less conservative and increased the charge speed through OTA updates.

I never purposefully charge to 100% on a DCFC. I charge to 95% at home all the time and to 100% when we’re going on a road trip.

I have hundreds of DCFC charge sessions in our EVs. Zero range loss. Zero issues.