Are you OK with Scout vehicles starting under $60K?

[SpaceEVDriver]

I have to say, I think this is one of those places where the Scout Traveler very intentionally fits into a window between the R1S and the R2 for some buyers...

The Traveler (at least to me) seems much more aligned with the attributes and capabilities (and footprint) of the R1, but without a 3rd row making it shorter, but also with a full-sized spare. This says to me that Rivian (with the R1S) was going for a little different / perhaps more family-oriented adventure audience, and the the Traveler is more intentionally designed to be rugged and outdoorsy, but makes no apologies for not having a 3rd row - for a reason.

The R2 is also Rivian's first foray into a "mass-market" and more value-oriented market (with a lot of the tech and capability we saw out of the gate with the R1) that will drive unit sales and more profitibility.

The R2 just doesn't map directly to the Traveler, and the Traveler doesn't map perfectly to the R1. Will be really interested in seeing buyer demographics and sales for these vehicles. There is clearly a place for all of them - the battle for marketshare & competition will help all of them.

The top of our list for replacing the Mustang Mach-E when it’s time are the Traveler, R2, and an R1 (used unless the prices come down).

The trade-offs between the three are real and everything measurable goes into the spreadsheet. Some of the required data aren’t available yet, which is fine—we don’t need to replace the Mustang any time soon. Because the Mustang isn’t our work vehicle, we can replace it with something that’s not quite as rugged/utilitarian as the Lightning.

 

[cyure]

Been by their and looped the lot a couple of times. Now that they are on their own and not part of the combo (that’s Sun automotive correct?). My in-laws are like 10 minutes from there. My cousin works for Rahal on the Pike as well so we’ve been through all the dealerships. Will need to keep in mind. I went to the Audi dealer in Reading for my TT but the sales guy retired. He was decent but didn’t care for financing dept and the other nonsense so maybe Carlisle pike is the answer when the time comes. I despise Autohaus!!!!

We have Autohaus here. No thank you.

 

[tomgillotti]

Really, $50k is at the high side for my budget. $60k is really pushing it. Anything above that, I will probably tap out. It will be by far the most expensive car I've ever purchased, if I can afford it at launch. Insurance premiums are another factor too since it will most likely more than double for a $50k+ vehicle.

You are absolutely right to be looking at the total monthly outflow rather than just the sticker price, because the math has gotten truly mind-blowing. When you run the numbers on a $60,000 truck with current interest rates, plus the "EV premium" on insurance that you mentioned, you are easily looking at a monthly liability of $1,200 to $1,400. To put that in perspective, I built a brand new home near the beach in Florida in 2009, and my entire mortgage—including taxes and insurance—was less than what a standard car payment is today. We have somehow normalized taking on "Second Mortgage" levels of debt for a depreciating appliance that will be worth half as much in four years. It’s not just you; the market has fundamentally distorted what "affordability" looks like, and tapping out at that price point isn't being cheap—it’s just being good at math.

 

[J Alynn]

You are absolutely right to be looking at the total monthly outflow rather than just the sticker price, because the math has gotten truly mind-blowing. When you run the numbers on a $60,000 truck with current interest rates, plus the "EV premium" on insurance that you mentioned, you are easily looking at a monthly liability of $1,200 to $1,400. To put that in perspective, I built a brand new home near the beach in Florida in 2009, and my entire mortgage—including taxes and insurance—was less than what a standard car payment is today. We have somehow normalized taking on "Second Mortgage" levels of debt for a depreciating appliance that will be worth half as much in four years. It’s not just you; the market has fundamentally distorted what "affordability" looks like, and tapping out at that price point isn't being cheap—it’s just being good at math.

I think one angle I haven’t seen and it applies to me to a degree. Cars and driving for me are very much a hobby of sorts, while I’m not creating anything other than memories there is an intangible side to certain vehicles. I have friends and family that golf 2-3 times a week or month. I have acquaintances that go bar hopping every other weekend. These hobbies/activities don’t come cheap. They add value of life in some way, shape or form that makes a person life more enjoyable. I suck at golf and all the quotes about golf apply to me. I enjoy a good cocktail (bourbon and pineapple is my go-to, don’t judge me-try it and see-add a quick pour of spiced pear liquor andd even better). Regular drinking just makes me feel ick! So when I compare the premium of a vehicle that I hope I find utter joy in, that is my “hobby” I spend money on. Otherwise I draw and do crafty things that are super cheap. So sometimes price and value swing vastly differently between buyers based on depreciating asset vs better way of life improvement

 

[maynard]

I think one angle I haven’t seen and it applies to me to a degree. Cars and driving for me are very much a hobby of sorts, while I’m not creating anything other than memories there is an intangible side to certain vehicles. I have friends and family that golf 2-3 times a week or month. I have acquaintances that golf bar hopping every other weekend. These hobbies/activities don’t come cheap. They add value of life in some way, shape or form that makes a person life more enjoyable. I suck at golf and all the quotes about golf apply to me. I enjoy a good cocktail (bourbon and pineapple is my go-to, don’t judge me-try it and see-add a quick pour of spiced pear liquor andd even better). Regular drinking just makes me feel ick! So when I compare the premium of a vehicle that I hope I find utter joy in, that is my “hobby” I spend money on. Otherwise I draw and do crafty things that are super cheap. So sometimes price and value swing vastly differently between buyers based on depreciating asset vs better way of life improvement

I agree on the hobby - currently it's riding my motorcycle, but as I age I'm doing that less, so maybe the Scout will take its place...

 

[tomgillotti]

I think one angle I haven’t seen and it applies to me to a degree. Cars and driving for me are very much a hobby of sorts, while I’m not creating anything other than memories there is an intangible side to certain vehicles. I have friends and family that golf 2-3 times a week or month. I have acquaintances that golf bar hopping every other weekend. These hobbies/activities don’t come cheap. They add value of life in some way, shape or form that makes a person life more enjoyable. I suck at golf and all the quotes about golf apply to me. I enjoy a good cocktail (bourbon and pineapple is my go-to, don’t judge me-try it and see-add a quick pour of spiced pear liquor andd even better). Regular drinking just makes me feel ick! So when I compare the premium of a vehicle that I hope I find utter joy in, that is my “hobby” I spend money on. Otherwise I draw and do crafty things that are super cheap. So sometimes price and value swing vastly differently between buyers based on depreciating asset vs better way of life improvement

Definitely understand this perspective.

 

[Moates442]

I can get an R1 dual max for 86K with 420 miles versus scouts 350. If we start getting into the 80-90k range, Rivian becomes a stronger option for me and I imagine many others (however, probably won't be able to go back to a mid-size after my current lightening ownership).

If we can keep it to 60-70K for a moderately equipped vehicle (thinking cold weather package, leather, remote start, maxed entertainment, mild off-road accessories (e.g., cameras, step rails etc.), I think this is a strong place for them to be in t capture market share - any higher people will start looking at comparing other options.

Who actually knows though. As much as I want my scout (not sure about harvester or not yet), above ~70k will give me strong pause, considering range / towing on the table now (final specs could change this).

At this point in time the AT4 Sierra EV checks all the boxes (longer range, better towing, well spec'd) and can be had for ~80K. If I was deciding similar specs, same ~80k price, GMC would get my money mainly for range, towing and mid-gate versatility, but thankfully I don't have to make that decision just yet.

Time will tell.

Except the Rivian owners have become like Tesla owners. Do you want to be a part of that?

 

[MClayton]

Except the Rivian owners have become like Tesla owners. Do you want to be a part of that?

The Rivian truck is not a full sized truck, so the Scout Terra give you more for your money size-wise.

 

[J Alynn]

Except the Rivian owners have become like Tesla owners. Do you want to be a part of that?

I have no fight in that comment but curious what you mean by that?

 

[Edgy]

I want to vote, but the question is a bit of a logic trap as currently worded.

"Will starting under $60k prevent you from buying?" The problem is that "Under $60k" covers both a $40,000 truck (which I would buy instantly) and a $59,900 truck (which isn't an instant yes).

• If I vote "No" (it won't prevent me), it looks like I’m approving a $59k price tag, when I’m actually hoping for $45k.

• If I vote "Yes", it implies I wouldn't buy a cheap truck, which makes no sense.

This poll is going to get 99% "No" votes because almost everyone wants a price "under $60k." But that doesn't tell Scout whether we want $58k or $45k, and that difference is huge for sales volume.


Can we add a poll with specific brackets?

• Under $45k

• $45k – $55k

• $55k – $65k

• Over $65k

That would give Scout actual useful data on where the demand curve falls.

As others have pointed out, this poll asks us to commit to a price without defining the product. A "Yes" vote implies we are okay with the number, regardless of whether it buys us a bare-bones work truck or a premium machine.

I agree with you. I was very hesitant to vote because the poll question is poorly worded.

I ended up voting “Yes”, not because I support a $60k Scout, but because I support Scout offering a range of trims and prices to meet different needs.

Personally, I want to see pricing under $45k. That’s the price point where my friends and eventually my kids could realistically afford a Scout, and many of them want one.

Without clear price brackets or a defined product, this poll doesn’t really tell Scout anything useful.

 

[Mousehunter]

I had a couple Christmas discussions about the Lightning. One person had apparently been shopping used, and said $30k used Lightnings were common. While I could not find that online, I did see one for $35k - it had an MSRP over $90k from it sticker. 55k depreciation in 3 years is kind of scary.

The only one cheaper I saw within 250 miles was one of the white elephant base models, not many of those were sold - but it had an MSRP of $40k (they were asking $31k used). That is scary in another way - how much range in price different trim levels can cause. Which brings us back to the - what is included in the $60k price.

FWIW, I was looking because my F250 left me on the side of the road today. My fault - I knew I needed to get the brakes worked on (but was hoping to get through the holiday vacations at my local repair shop)- but just was not expecting the loud clunk and all the smoke when something significant in the brake system failed catastrophically. Luckily, only smoke, no fire - as the brake fluid sprayed on a hot rotor (but that rotor is probably toast now, plus I don't know what failed in the first place - I had hoped before the clunk that I only needed new pads).

 

[tomgillotti]

I agree with you. I was very hesitant to vote because the poll question is poorly worded.

I ended up voting “Yes”, not because I support a $60k Scout, but because I support Scout offering a range of trims and prices to meet different needs.

Personally, I want to see pricing under $45k. That’s the price point where my friends and eventually my kids could realistically afford a Scout, and many of them want one.

Without clear price brackets or a defined product, this poll doesn’t really tell Scout anything useful.

You hit on exactly why I hesitated (and didn't actually vote).

The danger with a poll like this is that it generates "False Positive" data. You voted "Yes" because you want a range of options (which is reasonable), but corporate is likely to read that "Yes" as "The market accepts a $59,900 base price." They won't see the nuance of why you voted that way.

I am right there with you on the $45k target. That is the difference between a vehicle that your friends and kids can actually buy, versus one they just admire on Instagram. If Scout wants to build a brand that lasts for generations, they need to be accessible to the next generation, not just the current one.

 

[J Alynn]

I agree with you. I was very hesitant to vote because the poll question is poorly worded.

I ended up voting “Yes”, not because I support a $60k Scout, but because I support Scout offering a range of trims and prices to meet different needs.

Personally, I want to see pricing under $45k. That’s the price point where my friends and eventually my kids could realistically afford a Scout, and many of them want one.

Without clear price brackets or a defined product, this poll doesn’t really tell Scout anything useful.

Unfortunately it won’t let me reword it/edit it now that it posted. Not sure why

 

[MasterSpam]

I don’t understand the question.
Why wouldn’t I be okay with Scouts starting at under $60k?

Exactly!
I'm not buying one for 'status'.
I want utility and range with some comfort and a few bells and whistles that looks nice and modern.
Breaching $75k will be a real bummer and likely a deal killer for me.
I think car sales will continue to decline at these growing prices and monthly payments exceeding $1k a month and ridiculously extended terms.

 

[J Alynn]

Exactly!
I'm not buying one for 'status'.
I want utility and range with some comfort and a few bells and whistles that looks nice and modern.
Breaching $75k will be a real bummer and likely a deal killer for me.
I think car sales will continue to decline at these growing prices and monthly payments exceeding $1k a month and ridiculously extended terms.

I suspect prices will hold and banks will just make 84 month loans the norm. Greed is greed and until our 50 states worth of residents collectively stop buying cars it won’t change. And due to suburban sprawl and poor planning across this country (again-greed) we require vehicles. And back to my point about ego and vanity-we are Americans and we must have the biggest and best. Too many mindsets have to change for car prices to come down.

 

[JohnT]

I am ok with it being under 60k if they don’t nickel and dime you on additional features.

 

[DJG]

Just as a frame of reference, the F-150 ranges from about $40k-$80k. Within Ford's truck lineup, there Ranger and Maverick are smaller and cheaper, while the F-250 and F-350 are bigger and more expensive. I am not sure that Scout will have this range of offerings, certainly not at launch, but there will likely be a wide range of choices.

Personally, I want a highly optioned truck when I get mine, but i hope those on this site that want something a little more basic and lower priced can get that. I think that in order to sell 200,000 units per year, Scout will need to appeal to a wide range of buyers. I don't think there are 200,000 customers for a fully loaded $80k truck, but I also don't think there are 200,000 for a base model $60k truck.

 

[J Alynn]

Just as a frame of reference, the F-150 ranges from about $40k-$80k. Within Ford's truck lineup, there Ranger and Maverick are smaller and cheaper, while the F-250 and F-350 are bigger and more expensive. I am not sure that Scout will have this range of offerings, certainly not at launch, but there will likely be a wide range of choices.

Personally, I want a highly optioned truck when I get mine, but i hope those on this site that want something a little more basic and lower priced can get that. I think that in order to sell 200,000 units per year, Scout will need to appeal to a wide range of buyers. I don't think there are 200,000 customers for a fully loaded $80k truck, but I also don't think there are 200,000 for a base model $60k truck.

Keep in mind when you say truck are you only meaning Terra or both vehicles? 200,000 a year would be 160,000 travelers and 40,000 Terra’s since reservations are 80% / 20%

 

[cyure]

Keep in mind when you say truck are you only meaning Terra or both vehicles? 200,000 a year would be 160,000 travelers and 40,000 Terra’s since reservations are 80% / 20%

Honestly I call them both trucks. I know technically the Traveler is an SUV but she’s so big she’s a truck to me. Maybe the OP means the same.

 

[J Alynn]

Honestly I call them both trucks. I know technically the Traveler is an SUV but she’s so big she’s a truck to me. Maybe the OP means the same.

That’s why I was wondering. I k know a lot of people use the word interchangeably