R2 Launch Watch

[SpaceEVDriver]

As someone who frequently charges at DCFCs (we have done probably close to three or four hundred DCFCs), I have a complicated relationship with charge times. I want it to either be 2 minutes 20%-80% so I can charge, move the vehicle, and go do my walk, eat, restroom, etc. without blocking the stall. Or I want it to be 25 minutes so I can plug in, go do my walk, eat, restroom, etc.

A 10-minutes charge is the worst. It's too much time to want to sit there and not enough time to get anything done.

To get a 5 minutes charge rate, you need to go to 12C charging. For an 88 kWh battery, 400 Volts would require 2640 Amps. There aren't any chargers in North America that can pump that kind of current into a vehicle. An 800 V battery would require 1320 Amps. Still not available.

The CCS1 standard (the fastest consumer charging standard in North America) allows a maximum of 500 Amps at 1000 Volts. That gives 500 kW maximum. To get a 5-minute 0%-100% charge (12C charge rate), you'd need a battery smaller than 42 kWh. To get a 60% charge in 5 minutes, this needs an approximately 70 kWh battery. This assumes no losses and that the power to cool the battery comes from some other source. It also is entirely agnostic of the battery chemistry. Could be SSB, LFP, NMC, whatever.

 

[LastDayScout]

As someone who frequently charges at DCFCs (we have done probably close to three or four hundred DCFCs), I have a complicated relationship with charge times. I want it to either be 2 minutes 20%-80% so I can charge, move the vehicle, and go do my walk, eat, restroom, etc. without blocking the stall. Or I want it to be 25 minutes so I can plug in, go do my walk, eat, restroom, etc.

A 10-minutes charge is the worst. It's too much time to want to sit there and not enough time to get anything done.

To get a 5 minutes charge rate, you need to go to 12C charging. For an 88 kWh battery, 400 Volts would require 2640 Amps. There aren't any chargers in North America that can pump that kind of current into a vehicle. An 800 V battery would require 1320 Amps. Still not available.

The CCS1 standard (the fastest consumer charging standard in North America) allows a maximum of 500 Amps at 1000 Volts. That gives 500 kW maximum. To get a 5-minute 0%-100% charge (12C charge rate), you'd need a battery smaller than 42 kWh. To get a 60% charge in 5 minutes, this needs an approximately 70 kWh battery. This assumes no losses and that the power to cool the battery comes from some other source. It also is entirely agnostic of the battery chemistry. Could be SSB, LFP, NMC, whatever.

You can only push so much water through a garden hose.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

You can only push so much water through a garden hose.

Exactly. And you need a container that’s capable too.

Apparently the R2 has three large modules. 256 cells each, 768 cells per pack. With the 4695 cell they are supposedly using, each cell has approximately 119 Wh/cell, giving a 91 kWh battery pack, nominal, probably less is actually usable by the vehicle.

This is nominally a 400 volt battery pack, so I'm guessing each module is 32S8P for ~134 Volts per module and then the three modules are in series for ~403 Volts.

They could have gone for 256S3P for just over 1000 Volts, but they probably reused some of the R1 charging hardware to save on R&D and build costs. They would have needed an entirely new charge hardware for both the DC and AC charging.

This is a danger for Scout too: Once the system is engineered, changes require a lot of R&D.

Anyway a 91 kWh pack running at 400 volts has 227 Ah. The fastest it can charge on a CCS1 charger is about 2C, or 30 minutes for a full charge. That's ignoring losses and active cooling, so the estimate of 30 minutes for 10% to 80% is realistic and reasonable.

 

[cyure]

I can’t wait to read this about Scout. I’m sure we will see them in town soon.

 

[J Alynn]

I can’t wait to read this about Scout. I’m sure we will see them in town soon.

View attachment 14642

If only we were Scout employees

 

[Mousehunter]

As for 10 minutes

LastDayScout said:
You can only push so much water through a garden hose.

I can make a pretty quick bathroom brake.

Sadly - that does not help the fact I really hate Rivian styling - and I am not lying about that. I don't want one if you gave it to me. It could be a perfect vehicle - and I still could not get over the styling. Ok, maybe I could hold down the vomit if you gave it to me. I complain about politics in one thread - and then say I hate the Rivian just because they made it scream EV, EV, EV...

 

[J Alynn]

As for 10 minutes

I can make a pretty quick bathroom brake.

Sadly - that does not help the fact I really hate Rivian styling - and I am not lying about that. I don't want one if you gave it to me. It could be a perfect vehicle - and I still could not get over the styling. Ok, maybe I could hold down the vomit if you gave it to me. I complain about politics in one thread - and then say I hate the Rivian just because they made it scream EV, EV, EV...

That’s the joy of auto design-you can love or hate a design, a given color can make a car look atrocious or you have a company ripping off other company designs and butchering them.
It’s funny-as a designer I hate the front end of the Rivians, otherwise love the pick up and all around don’t like the R1S because back end/side profile just misses the mark with proportions. All that said, my wife loves the R1S so as my old boss used to say “there’s an ass for every seat” this the reason the Model T is no longer around

 

[R1TVT]

It’s funny-as a designer I hate the front end of the Rivians, otherwise love the pick up and all around don’t like the R1S because back end/side profile just misses the mark with proportions.

100% - Took me a while to get used to the front-end. But, Rivian certainly accomplished what they set out to do - create something that really stood out and garnered reactions to firmly establish their identity as an American company that was producing the 1st EV Truck. No denying that one. I actually came around on the front end on the HWY one night when another R1T was driving behind me. I didn't really know what the truck looked like at night just sitting behind the wheel. The thing owns the road at night from the front.

As far as proportions, its funny you say that. My own view is that Rivian absolutely nailed the proportions on BOTH the R1S and R1T, and they they are actually a really perfect size for so many use cases. If my R1T bed was 1 foot longer, I might not be as excited about the Terra. The only time the proportions look a little wonky from the side is when it is sitting in its "squat position" with air suspension lowered. I guess it appears a little odd to me when maxxed out up or down. But then again. most cars with air do...

 

[J Alynn]

100% - Took me a while to get used to the front-end. But, Rivian certainly accomplished what they set out to do - create something that really stood out and garnered reactions to firmly establish their identity as an American company that was producing the 1st EV Truck. No denying that one. I actually came around on the front end on the HWY one night when another R1T was driving behind me. I didn't really know what the truck looked like at night just sitting behind the wheel. The thing owns the road at night from the front.

As far as proportions, its funny you say that. My own view is that Rivian absolutely nailed the proportions on BOTH the R1S and R1T, and they they are actually a really perfect size for so many use cases. If my R1T bed was 1 foot longer, I might not be as excited about the Terra. The only time the proportions look a little wonky from the side is when it is sitting in its "squat position" with air suspension lowered. I guess it appears a little odd to me when maxxed out up or down. But then again. most cars with air do...

Ironically the R1s in white is less bothersome to me but the darker colors just throw my eye. But yes-to your point the bug eye lights cemented their corporate face so you always know a Rivian.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I really love pretty much everything about the Rivians except the in-cab UX. If I could test drive one for a month to get a feel for whether the UX annoyances would go away, I’d jump at that opportunity, but I can't afford to buy one just to run that test.

The engineering of these vehicles is top-notch and they’ll be running like new for decades.

I’m not one who particularly cares about form as much as function, so the appearance is mostly neutral for me. But at least the Rivians aren’t the same cookie-cutter bar of soap, or aggressive, bulky, “must-flex-muscles" that so many designers continue to push.