Help me decide BEV or EREV

[J Alynn]

Five hours that's just a coffee cup down the road . Flying takes 2 + hours to get on plane. Then layover, then rental car shuttle, then the flu , covid or measles. Then the Dui because you have three drinks on the plane to deal with knowing you will be sick for three weeks. Can you tell I fly to much?

You sound like my 21 year old daughter. It’s a high speed petri dish

 

[J Alynn]

I’m starting by saying this is not political!

I have a lung thing and I do not want to get sick. I wear my mask as soon as I walk down the jet way and don’t even have a drink of water on that plane. Take it off after I get off the jetway. Have been doing that for years now and don’t get sick anymore after a trip. I don’t want to share all those germs on the plane. No thanks!

Daughter wears mask and always a hoodie because she doesn’t want to touch seats except as critically necessary

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

I put in my reservation on 02/23/2025. I have been following every youtube video and article that has come out about these vehicles. My wife drives a Cadillac Lyriq. After owning a BEV, I will NEVER buy an ICE vehicle again. That being said...

My reservation is for the Terra BEV. I am not going to maintain a combustion engine and an electric system in the same vehicle. I am not going to get a harvester, only to have an inferior battery and half the towing capacity. The market has spoken? The market is a bunch of people who are hesitant to purchase an EV because of range anxiety. People are fearful of the unknown. Why buy a hybrid? If you want gas, oil changes, and sluggish acceleration, buy an ICE. If you want immediate power, no oil changes, low carbon footprint, but an EV. Hybrid = High Maintenance $$

We took a 4 hour road trip in the Lyriq. We only had to charge one time on the trip at a Buckee's using tesla superchargers. Typically I rent when I travel anyway, because I don't want the mileage on my vehicle, but we did it with the Lyriq for the experience. It was fine.

I am frustrated that Scout is flip-flopping out of the gate. I understand it's a business decision, but when 'The Market' understands that their EREV in the harvester reservation will have half the towing capacity of the BEV... we will see what 'The Market' does then. Being able to tow 10,000 lbs with the BEV is acceptable in a pickup. A max towing capacity of 5,000 lbs is not acceptable for me. These numbers are speculative as they are projected numbers, but one fact is clear; the harvester will not be able to tow the same amount as the BEV. Any boat longer than 22' is going to be at least 6,000 lbs. Pulling a car with trailer, over 6,000 lbs. Maybe 'The Market' isn't towing with a pickup???

We are very aware of the concern here and the teams are working towards final numbers that close the gap. Stay tuned...

 

[6-ScoutFamily]

<SNIP>

To fly from my home city to the LA area is a minimum of 6 hours (there’s a quicker flight, but it only has 20 minutes between landing and takeoff in the connecting city, which is impossible). After getting to LA, I have to wait for luggage and get a car, then drive to my destination. That’s at least an hour and usually two. So we’re talking 8 hours and $500-$1500 to fly round trip.

Or I can drive for 7.5 hours. Along the way, I get to listen to a good audiobook, take several stops for clean restrooms and to stretch my legs, a stop for a good lunch, another for a good dinner. And I have my own car when I’m there. That costs $70 one-way.

Hard to argue with that.

 

[J Alynn]

I put in my reservation on 02/23/2025. I have been following every youtube video and article that has come out about these vehicles. My wife drives a Cadillac Lyriq. After owning a BEV, I will NEVER buy an ICE vehicle again. That being said...

My reservation is for the Terra BEV. I am not going to maintain a combustion engine and an electric system in the same vehicle. I am not going to get a harvester, only to have an inferior battery and half the towing capacity. The market has spoken? The market is a bunch of people who are hesitant to purchase an EV because of range anxiety. People are fearful of the unknown. Why buy a hybrid? If you want gas, oil changes, and sluggish acceleration, buy an ICE. If you want immediate power, no oil changes, low carbon footprint, but an EV. Hybrid = High Maintenance $$

We took a 4 hour road trip in the Lyriq. We only had to charge one time on the trip at a Buckee's using tesla superchargers. Typically I rent when I travel anyway, because I don't want the mileage on my vehicle, but we did it with the Lyriq for the experience. It was fine.

I am frustrated that Scout is flip-flopping out of the gate. I understand it's a business decision, but when 'The Market' understands that their EREV in the harvester reservation will have half the towing capacity of the BEV... we will see what 'The Market' does then. Being able to tow 10,000 lbs with the BEV is acceptable in a pickup. A max towing capacity of 5,000 lbs is not acceptable for me. These numbers are speculative as they are projected numbers, but one fact is clear; the harvester will not be able to tow the same amount as the BEV. Any boat longer than 22' is going to be at least 6,000 lbs. Pulling a car with trailer, over 6,000 lbs. Maybe 'The Market' isn't towing with a pickup???

Welcome to the active forum and thanks for sharing your thoughts. I’m in your boat (pun intended) but agree with you and I truly hope the BEVs launch enough at first to prove to the naysayers that the BEVs are fundamentally better in every aspect.

 

[BartMan Terra Total EV]

I’m starting by saying this is not political!

I have a lung thing and I do not want to get sick. I wear my mask as soon as I walk down the jet way and don’t even have a drink of water on that plane. Take it off after I get off the jetway. Have been doing that for years now and don’t get sick anymore after a trip. I don’t want to share all those germs on the plane. No thanks!

Don't forget to wash your hands as well..

 

[Scout948]

I put in my reservation on 02/23/2025. I have been following every youtube video and article that has come out about these vehicles. My wife drives a Cadillac Lyriq. After owning a BEV, I will NEVER buy an ICE vehicle again. That being said...

My reservation is for the Terra BEV. I am not going to maintain a combustion engine and an electric system in the same vehicle. I am not going to get a harvester, only to have an inferior battery and half the towing capacity. The market has spoken? The market is a bunch of people who are hesitant to purchase an EV because of range anxiety. People are fearful of the unknown. Why buy a hybrid? If you want gas, oil changes, and sluggish acceleration, buy an ICE. If you want immediate power, no oil changes, low carbon footprint, but an EV. Hybrid = High Maintenance $$

We took a 4 hour road trip in the Lyriq. We only had to charge one time on the trip at a Buckee's using tesla superchargers. Typically I rent when I travel anyway, because I don't want the mileage on my vehicle, but we did it with the Lyriq for the experience. It was fine.

I am frustrated that Scout is flip-flopping out of the gate. I understand it's a business decision, but when 'The Market' understands that their EREV in the harvester reservation will have half the towing capacity of the BEV... we will see what 'The Market' does then. Being able to tow 10,000 lbs with the BEV is acceptable in a pickup. A max towing capacity of 5,000 lbs is not acceptable for me. These numbers are speculative as they are projected numbers, but one fact is clear; the harvester will not be able to tow the same amount as the BEV. Any boat longer than 22' is going to be at least 6,000 lbs. Pulling a car with trailer, over 6,000 lbs. Maybe 'The Market' isn't towing with a pickup???

Very well said. I like how you wrapped up the end of that 2nd paragraph as I have been trying to find similar type "catch phrases" for what they call elevator speech (something I was taught at my old company if I ever got in an elevator with a VIP and had the time of the elevator ride to make the sell...). I use the one about hybrids having all the "pros" of EVs and ICE.. but also all the "cons" and try to remind folks that they seem to ignore the "con" part of it... Your statement compares those two nicely.

 

[6-ScoutFamily]

Wow you guys must like each other. That's crazy

I/we, have found that a good marriage has a solid foundation in friendship. We don’t road trip like we used to but traveling together is how we discovered our friendship was a solid foundation for a permanent relationship. We celebrate our 49th next month.

 

[BartMan Terra Total EV]

I put in my reservation on 02/23/2025. I have been following every youtube video and article that has come out about these vehicles. My wife drives a Cadillac Lyriq. After owning a BEV, I will NEVER buy an ICE vehicle again. That being said...

My reservation is for the Terra BEV. I am not going to maintain a combustion engine and an electric system in the same vehicle. I am not going to get a harvester, only to have an inferior battery and half the towing capacity. The market has spoken? The market is a bunch of people who are hesitant to purchase an EV because of range anxiety. People are fearful of the unknown. Why buy a hybrid? If you want gas, oil changes, and sluggish acceleration, buy an ICE. If you want immediate power, no oil changes, low carbon footprint, but an EV. Hybrid = High Maintenance $$

We took a 4 hour road trip in the Lyriq. We only had to charge one time on the trip at a Buckee's using tesla superchargers. Typically I rent when I travel anyway, because I don't want the mileage on my vehicle, but we did it with the Lyriq for the experience. It was fine.

I am frustrated that Scout is flip-flopping out of the gate. I understand it's a business decision, but when 'The Market' understands that their EREV in the harvester reservation will have half the towing capacity of the BEV... we will see what 'The Market' does then. Being able to tow 10,000 lbs with the BEV is acceptable in a pickup. A max towing capacity of 5,000 lbs is not acceptable for me. These numbers are speculative as they are projected numbers, but one fact is clear; the harvester will not be able to tow the same amount as the BEV. Any boat longer than 22' is going to be at least 6,000 lbs. Pulling a car with trailer, over 6,000 lbs. Maybe 'The Market' isn't towing with a pickup???

Great post. My guess is Scout will get creative with the Tera Harvester and towing capacity. Then there is the good old with or without wdh capacity limits. My guess is folks will liklely need to use one and Scout should be out and proud about it. Maybe even include one. It is a numbers thing. SM liklely knows that towing heavy trailers is not a huge amount of folks. I believe Jaime even said this in the video. So if one has a heavy trailer especially off road its a Terra BEV.
I have my fingers crossed that the Harvester coming off the line first will be issue free. Maybe as we get closer they will realize they should start with EVs first. I mean Harvester folks will liklely take such news better because that is what they were expecting. This will give more time to move that ice engine to the frunk so they can tow better

 

[bb00799]

Great post. My guess is Scout will get creative with the Tera Harvester and towing capacity. Then there is the good old with or without wdh capacity limits. My guess is folks will liklely need to use one and Scout should be out and proud about it. Maybe even include one. It is a numbers thing. SM liklely knows that towing heavy trailers is not a huge amount of folks. I believe Jaime even said this in the video. So if one has a heavy trailer especially off road its a Terra BEV.
I have my fingers crossed that the Harvester coming off the line first will be issue free. Maybe as we get closer they will realize they should start with EVs first. I mean Harvester folks will liklely take such news better because that is what they were expecting. This will give more time to move that ice engine to the frunk so they can tow better

I think if they can get the towing capacity to ~6000lbs that would be nice to see. The 2025 Toyota Land Cruiser hits that and I think size and price wise a lot of people would be looking at that for a comparison (maybe not cross shopping, but at least using it as a comparison point).

Plus an interesting point is that if they could find a way to boost the towing numbers of the EREV could they maybe do something for the overall numbers on the BEV?

 

[BartMan Terra Total EV]

I think if they can get the towing capacity to ~6000lbs that would be nice to see. The 2025 Toyota Land Cruiser hits that and I think size and price wise a lot of people would be looking at that for a comparison (maybe not cross shopping, but at least using it as a comparison point).

Plus an interesting point is that if they could find a way to boost the towing numbers of the EREV could they maybe do something for the overall numbers on the BEV?

Increasing the capacity on the Terra EV would put it at 3/4 ton capacity. The wheelbase of the Terra would not handle it.

 

[BartMan Terra Total EV]

I/we, have found that a good marriage has a solid foundation in friendship. We don’t road trip like we used to but traveling together is how we discovered our friendship was a solid foundation for a permanent relationship. We celebrate our 49th next month.

That's awesome! We are at 38 years but we almost get divorced after every camping trip

 

[bb00799]

Increasing the capacity on the Terra EV would put it at 3/4 ton capacity. The wheelbase of the Terra would not handle it.

Nevermind then, I was clearly speaking out of my ass lol. I guess I always thought that the 3/4 ton capacity was farther away from where we are.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Towing with the Harvester is probably going to be mostly thermal dependent.

My speculation:

Once they set a total GVWR & GCWR with the BEV, they'll trade battery mass for fuel+engine (±) mass. Hopefully they'll place most of the fuel and engine mass forward of the rear axle so they don't lose tongue weight and thus towing capacity. It’s not at all clear to me if they’ll gain or lose mass by shrinking the battery and adding the engine and fuel. Presumably they’ll be within 100-200 pounds.

If they can manage those two things, then they'll be thermally and battery limited.

The engine will require a fair amount of extra cooling capacity, which will likely be managed by an extra heat pump powered by the high-voltage battery. That extra cooling power draw will be part of the reduction in towing capacity.

The other issue is that the Harvester will have a smaller battery. A smaller battery of the same chemistry necessarily has a lower power output maximum if battery lifetime is a consideration. The power output is dependent on the safe discharge rate, which might be—for example but not necessarily specific to the Scout battery—5C. A discharge rate of 5C means the battery can be fully discharged in 1/5 of an hour, or 12 minutes. A battery with 100 kWh capacity can thus provide up to a maximum of 100 kWh / 12 minutes = 500 kW of power, for 12 minutes. A battery with the same design and chemistry with “only" 80 kWh of capacity can (safely) provide up to a maximum of 400 kW of power for 12 minutes. There’s a whole host of other electronics that need to support the battery’s maximum power output, so don’t take these numbers for any kind of estimate of what the Scouts can do—they’re simply illustrative of the issue between large and small batteries. There are likely ways around this, and one of those is if the genset produces enough power to make up the gap between the smaller battery and its larger sibling.

The total power to the wheels on the Harvester will likely be lower, but the cooling requirements will likely be higher.

If they can get the mass mostly forward of the rear axle, my guess is that the thermal and power limitations mean they can hit at around 75% to maybe 85% of the BEV towing capacity. If they have to put some of the engine’s mass over or aft of the axle, then they’ll also lose towing capacity to tongue and axle weight considerations.

 

[chucchinchilla]

Towing with the Harvester is probably going to be mostly thermal dependent.

My speculation:

Once they set a total GVWR & GCWR with the BEV, they'll trade battery mass for fuel+engine (±) mass. Hopefully they'll place most of the fuel and engine mass forward of the rear axle so they don't lose tongue weight and thus towing capacity. It’s not at all clear to me if they’ll gain or lose mass by shrinking the battery and adding the engine and fuel. Presumably they’ll be within 100-200 pounds.

If they can manage those two things, then they'll be thermally and battery limited.

The engine will require a fair amount of extra cooling capacity, which will likely be managed by an extra heat pump powered by the high-voltage battery. That extra cooling power draw will be part of the reduction in towing capacity.

The other issue is that the Harvester will have a smaller battery. A smaller battery of the same chemistry necessarily has a lower power output maximum if battery lifetime is a consideration. The power output is dependent on the safe discharge rate, which might be—for example but not necessarily specific to the Scout battery—5C. A discharge rate of 5C means the battery can be fully discharged in 1/5 of an hour, or 12 minutes. A battery with 100 kWh capacity can thus provide up to a maximum of 100 kWh / 12 minutes = 500 kW of power, for 12 minutes. A battery with the same design and chemistry with “only" 80 kWh of capacity can (safely) provide up to a maximum of 400 kW of power for 12 minutes. There’s a whole host of other electronics that need to support the battery’s maximum power output, so don’t take these numbers for any kind of estimate of what the Scouts can do—they’re simply illustrative of the issue between large and small batteries. There are likely ways around this, and one of those is if the genset produces enough power to make up the gap between the smaller battery and its larger sibling.

The total power to the wheels on the Harvester will likely be lower, but the cooling requirements will likely be higher.

If they can get the mass mostly forward of the rear axle, my guess is that the thermal and power limitations mean they can hit at around 75% to maybe 85% of the BEV towing capacity. If they have to put some of the engine’s mass over or aft of the axle, then they’ll also lose towing capacity to tongue and axle weight considerations.

I'm still just amazed they'll be able to fit a whole EA888 engine back there (pretty sure it's not going to be the lower power EA211). All in that engine is just under 300lbs however as an EREV I'm sure there are a number of accessories you can remove making it a bit lighter. This matters because according to their original diagrams, the engine will be sitting behind the rear axle and I doubt there would be space to move it up any further.

I'm on my second EA888 engine and time has shown VW is not great at making water cooled systems for cars, especially water pumps, so I'm very curious how Scout will deliver a reliable system here in regards to cooling. BTW outside of cooling it's a fantastic and durable power plant.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I'm still just amazed they'll be able to fit a whole EA888 engine back there (pretty sure it's not going to be the lower power EA211). All in that engine is just under 300lbs however as an EREV I'm sure there are a number of accessories you can remove making it a bit lighter. This matters because according to their original diagrams, the engine will be sitting behind the rear axle and I doubt there would be space to move it up any further.
View attachment 13509
I'm on my second EA888 engine and time has shown VW is not great at making water cooled systems for cars, especially water pumps, so I'm very curious how Scout will deliver a reliable system here in regards to cooling. BTW outside of cooling it's a fantastic and durable power plant.

Yeah, I’m ignoring that concept drawing in an expectation that they’ll shift that genset forward. If they don’t, then all the mass of that will contribute to tongue weight and reduce the towing capacity by ~10x the genset mass. If it’s about 300 pounds, then the maximum tow capacity will be lower by ~3,000 pounds just due to the excess weight aft of the rear axle.

 

[LastDayScout]

I'm still just amazed they'll be able to fit a whole EA888 engine back there (pretty sure it's not going to be the lower power EA211). All in that engine is just under 300lbs however as an EREV I'm sure there are a number of accessories you can remove making it a bit lighter. This matters because according to their original diagrams, the engine will be sitting behind the rear axle and I doubt there would be space to move it up any further.
View attachment 13509
I'm on my second EA888 engine and time has shown VW is not great at making water cooled systems for cars, especially water pumps, so I'm very curious how Scout will deliver a reliable system here in regards to cooling. BTW outside of cooling it's a fantastic and durable power plant.

Yep. No thank you.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I'm on my second EA888 engine and time has shown VW is not great at making water cooled systems for cars, especially water pumps, so I'm very curious how Scout will deliver a reliable system here in regards to cooling. BTW outside of cooling it's a fantastic and durable power plant.

I missed this part in my earlier response.

If it’s well-designed, they don’t need a water pump in the engine. They can put an electric coolant pump up near the heat pump so it’s easier to access and easier to service. This would also allow them to heat the engine before starting it, giving them a huge advantage over BEVs or ICEVs in cold weather: The ability to warm the engine without starting the engine. This would mean they could allow an owner to remote start the vehicle while it’s parked in a garage because the engine is not burning fuel and creating carbon monoxide. If the temperature is below a threshold, the heat pump for the engine could then be used to heat the engine coolant and the coolant pump could pump the fluid through the block to warm up the engine while the rest of the vehicle is also warming up. Doing this would improve cold (very cold) weather performance dramatically compared to either ICEV or BEV. No more idling of the engine to warm it up.

(Also, I really don’t like the fact that the default is to think of the thermal management fluid in an ICEV as “coolant,” but I still fall into that.)

 

[N Wilson]

I put in my reservation on 02/23/2025. I have been following every youtube video and article that has come out about these vehicles. My wife drives a Cadillac Lyriq. After owning a BEV, I will NEVER buy an ICE vehicle again. That being said...

My reservation is for the Terra BEV. I am not going to maintain a combustion engine and an electric system in the same vehicle. I am not going to get a harvester, only to have an inferior battery and half the towing capacity. The market has spoken? The market is a bunch of people who are hesitant to purchase an EV because of range anxiety. People are fearful of the unknown. Why buy a hybrid? If you want gas, oil changes, and sluggish acceleration, buy an ICE. If you want immediate power, no oil changes, low carbon footprint, but an EV. Hybrid = High Maintenance $$

We took a 4 hour road trip in the Lyriq. We only had to charge one time on the trip at a Buckee's using tesla superchargers. Typically I rent when I travel anyway, because I don't want the mileage on my vehicle, but we did it with the Lyriq for the experience. It was fine.

I am frustrated that Scout is flip-flopping out of the gate. I understand it's a business decision, but when 'The Market' understands that their EREV in the harvester reservation will have half the towing capacity of the BEV... we will see what 'The Market' does then. Being able to tow 10,000 lbs with the BEV is acceptable in a pickup. A max towing capacity of 5,000 lbs is not acceptable for me. These numbers are speculative as they are projected numbers, but one fact is clear; the harvester will not be able to tow the same amount as the BEV. Any boat longer than 22' is going to be at least 6,000 lbs. Pulling a car with trailer, over 6,000 lbs. Maybe 'The Market' isn't towing with a pickup???

Welcome to the forum!

And, a special welcome to the Cool Kids Club! The elite and exclusive group of BEV Terra reservation holders. We may be small in numbers but we make up for it in cool factor.

 

[BartMan Terra Total EV]

Welcome to the forum!

And, a special welcome to the Cool Kids Club! The elite and exclusive group of BEV Terra reservation holders. We may be small in numbers but we make up for it in cool factor.

What makes us cool is we think we are cool even though we are really not cool

If this link works you will know how cool I am for sending a clip from the best movie ever made. Which of course verify 's how cool i am.