Extra, Extra....Read All About It!

[LastDayScout]

The off-road routes I want to take cannot be done with an 80-inch wide SUV if the mirrors are more than 5 inches wide, which is obviously not possible without removing the mirrors. This means there aren’t any existing BEV SUVs that can do those routes. And this isn’t a “kinda can’t.” One of the routes includes going through what is essentially a slot canyon. The mirrors would be knocked off and I’d probably damage the sheet metal.

The on- road routes I want to take should not be done with an 80- inch wide vehicle! My iX is plenty wide, maybe even a little too wide.
Width (mirrors folded): ~77.4 inches
Width (including mirrors): ~87.8 inches
Even it is tight in a lot of parking spaces.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

The on- road routes I want to take should not be done with an 80- inch wide vehicle! My iX is plenty wide, maybe even a little too wide.
Width (mirrors folded): ~77.4 inches
Width (including mirrors): ~87.8 inches
Even it is tight in a lot of parking spaces.

That too!

 

[cyure]

The off-road routes I want to take cannot be done with an 80-inch wide SUV if the mirrors are more than 5 inches wide, which is obviously not possible without removing the mirrors. This means there aren’t any existing BEV SUVs that can do those routes. And this isn’t a “kinda can’t.” One of the routes includes going through what is essentially a slot canyon. The mirrors would be knocked off and I’d probably damage the sheet metal.

Question. Are they doing this because it makes manufacturing easier if the Terra and Traveler are the same width?

 

[LastDayScout]

Question. Are they doing this because it makes manufacturing easier if the Terra and Traveler are the same width?

That is my guess.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Question. Are they doing this because it makes manufacturing easier if the Terra and Traveler are the same width?

I don’t know why they’re doing it. I would guess that’s makes it easier to use the same drivetrain (axles, motors, battery width, etc), and probably makes it easier to know where things are going to be placed (thermal management equipment, etc). I would make them the same width if I was doing the design. I just wouldn’t make them 80 inches wide. I’d stick to a more reasonable 70-75 inches.

I do know regulations were manipulated by O&G and auto lobbyists sometime in the ‘90s or 2000s to make it cheaper to meet certain regulations with vehicles with a larger footprint. So vehicles have grown in size since then. And now they’re butting up against another regulation at 80 inches. Work trucks have a reasonable argument to be wider, but passenger vehicles don’t need to be 80 inches wide.

This is a table of approximate widths (in inches, not counting mirrors) over the (approximate) decades of a few SUVs here in the US. Many have gained almost a foot in width in the past 40 years. Some width gain is justifiable to me in the sense that safety science has added the knowledge that crumple zones matter and having a slightly thicker door to accommodate crushing energy is a good thing. But I don’t think we need 80-inch SUVs. I don’t certify that all the numbers are exactly correct, this was built from a series of quick searches and I did not do a comprehensive verification.

Decade	Range Rover	Land Cruiser	Bronco	Jeep Wrangler	4Runner
1980s	70	70	77-79	66	66.5
1990s	74.4	76	79	67	66.5
2000s	75.7	76.4	---	74	66.5-71
2010s	78.1	77.6	---	74	75.2
2020s	81.5	78	76	74	75.8
2026	81.5	79	76-86	74-80	77.8

 

[THil08]

 

[Logan]

Incredibly annoying. Ford just pushed an update that locks our charge port when the vehicle locks. I find that incredibly annoying and when I have time, it’ll be one of the things I hack in to disable.

The “stealing gas” problem was solved with the little flapper built inside the filler nozzle in the 1980s. Locking fuel doors or locking gas caps are no longer necessary. Also, thefts like that were a minuscule problem in the grand scheme of things.

I’m so exhausted from all of the propaganda that I must be afraid of everyone and everything. If someone stole some gas from me, they probably needed it more than I did and I’d have happily given it to them if they’d asked, but since I wasn’t around, they got what they needed and I lost little. Now I have to pay for a lock on this and a lock on that when I don’t really want any of those locks. The overall cost to me is greater than if we’d just let that “theif” have a gallon of gas.

IMO, The charge port locking the charger to the vehicle while the vehicle is locked, is not really related to "stealing" the gas" scenario from the past.

Its to prevent people from unplugging the charger while you're charging, and/or stealing your charger (if you're charging from an L1/L2 where the charger is plugged into something where the outlet is reachable by "public").

I agree that its something that should be a setting (I believe it is in my Hyundais), but its not a crazy leap to go from "if the user wants their vehicle locked" to " if the charger is plugged in, lets lock the charger to the vehicle too".

I have a feeling we are going to end up with a generation that won’t know how to “drive” without all the assistive features in a car. They definitely won’t know how to drive a manual transmission, but I think it will go further than that. It took me forever to get my son to realize there’s still a blind spot and you have to look over your shoulder too, you can’t just expect no one to be there if the car isn’t beeping a warning at you.

Oh, this is already happening. And its not even just new drivers.

About 10 years ago someone came to pick my wife and I up to go to the airport. It had rained recently, and their backup camera was obscured a tiny bit (droplets of water...), and the driver got out, and asked me to backup out of the apt complex, because they didn't think they could do it with their mirrors.

And I have a nephew who is in his early 20's now, mention that "I don't know if I could drive a car without a backup camera", because he grew up with them, as they've been required on all vehicles in the USA since what... 2008? 2006?

Yeah, its definitely happening.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

IMO, The charge port locking the charger to the vehicle while the vehicle is locked, is not really related to "stealing" the gas" scenario from the past.

Its to prevent people from unplugging the charger while you're charging, and/or stealing your charger (if you're charging from an L1/L2 where the charger is plugged into something where the outlet is reachable by "public").

I agree that its something that should be a setting (I believe it is in my Hyundais), but its not a crazy leap to go from "if the user wants their vehicle locked" to " if the charger is plugged in, lets lock the charger to the vehicle too".

I didn’t mean to suggest someone would “steal” charge, that’s not possible. I was more talking about the annoyance factor. Sorry for the miscommunication.

I don’t want my charge port locked. Ever. I’d rather someone unplug me easily than do damage to my vehicle’s charge port. I’d rather lose a $200 adapter than a charge port that costs many thousands of dollars to repair. I’d rather anyone have an easy way to unplug the charger if there’s a problem.

If someone wants that option, that’s their choice. I don’t want it, so I want a way to disable it.

 

[strider]

I am of the same opinion. The Scouts are too wide. Scout, please hear us! It is too wide!!!!!!!!!!

The off-road routes I want to take cannot be done with an 80-inch wide SUV if the mirrors are more than 5 inches wide, which is obviously not possible without removing the mirrors. This means there aren’t any existing BEV SUVs that can do those routes. And this isn’t a “kinda can’t.” One of the routes includes going through what is essentially a slot canyon. The mirrors would be knocked off and I’d probably damage the sheet metal.

Let's all take a breath here. Scout is following the Tesla/Rivian path of large and expensive vehicles first, smaller and cheaper vehicles second. So if the first offerings are too large and/or expensive, you'll just need to be patient.

 

[chucchinchilla]

Let's all take a breath here. Scout is following the Tesla/Rivian path of large and expensive vehicles first, smaller and cheaper vehicles second. So if the first offerings are too large and/or expensive, you'll just need to be patient.

Yeah Scout will make other models in the future including a smaller R2 equivalent (and hopefully an equivalent truck that would be sweet). Just can't do everything at once.

 

[cyure]

IMO, The charge port locking the charger to the vehicle while the vehicle is locked, is not really related to "stealing" the gas" scenario from the past.

Its to prevent people from unplugging the charger while you're charging, and/or stealing your charger (if you're charging from an L1/L2 where the charger is plugged into something where the outlet is reachable by "public").

I agree that its something that should be a setting (I believe it is in my Hyundais), but its not a crazy leap to go from "if the user wants their vehicle locked" to " if the charger is plugged in, lets lock the charger to the vehicle too".



Oh, this is already happening. And its not even just new drivers.

About 10 years ago someone came to pick my wife and I up to go to the airport. It had rained recently, and their backup camera was obscured a tiny bit (droplets of water...), and the driver got out, and asked me to backup out of the apt complex, because they didn't think they could do it with their mirrors.

And I have a nephew who is in his early 20's now, mention that "I don't know if I could drive a car without a backup camera", because he grew up with them, as they've been required on all vehicles in the USA since what... 2008? 2006?

Yeah, its definitely happening.

I think it was 2016. My 2013 Wrangler didn’t come with one and our 2015 Miata didn’t have one either.

 

[weavahVBC]

I don’t know why they’re doing it. I would guess that’s makes it easier to use the same drivetrain (axles, motors, battery width, etc), and probably makes it easier to know where things are going to be placed (thermal management equipment, etc). I would make them the same width if I was doing the design. I just wouldn’t make them 80 inches wide. I’d stick to a more reasonable 70-75 inches.

I do know regulations were manipulated by O&G and auto lobbyists sometime in the ‘90s or 2000s to make it cheaper to meet certain regulations with vehicles with a larger footprint. So vehicles have grown in size since then. And now they’re butting up against another regulation at 80 inches. Work trucks have a reasonable argument to be wider, but passenger vehicles don’t need to be 80 inches wide.

This is a table of approximate widths (in inches, not counting mirrors) over the (approximate) decades of a few SUVs here in the US. Many have gained almost a foot in width in the past 40 years. Some width gain is justifiable to me in the sense that safety science has added the knowledge that crumple zones matter and having a slightly thicker door to accommodate crushing energy is a good thing. But I don’t think we need 80-inch SUVs. I don’t certify that all the numbers are exactly correct, this was built from a series of quick searches and I did not do a comprehensive verification.

Decade	Range Rover	Land Cruiser	Bronco	Jeep Wrangler	4Runner
1980s	70	70	77-79	66	66.5
1990s	74.4	76	79	67	66.5
2000s	75.7	76.4	---	74	66.5-71
2010s	78.1	77.6	---	74	75.2
2020s	81.5	78	76	74	75.8
2026	81.5	79	76-86	74-80	77.8

All this talk about width - it would be nice if the mirrors auto-fold when the car is turned off. I don't know if that's something that exists or is already common in EVs (or even newer ICE cars/trucks)?

 

[Logan]

I think it was 2016. My 2013 Wrangler didn’t come with one and our 2015 Miata didn’t have one either.

Ah, yeah, I think you're right. I was sort of close... but just on the wrong decade .

OOF.

Whatever it was, my Nephew had never driven anything without one, and didn't think he could backup without one. It was embarrasing.

I didn’t mean to suggest someone would “steal” charge, that’s not possible. I was more talking about the annoyance factor. Sorry for the miscommunication.

I don’t want my charge port locked. Ever. I’d rather someone unplug me easily than do damage to my vehicle’s charge port. I’d rather lose a $200 adapter than a charge port that costs many thousands of dollars to repair. I’d rather anyone have an easy way to unplug the charger if there’s a problem.

If someone wants that option, that’s their choice. I don’t want it, so I want a way to disable it.

Oh, agreed. If its an option, make it an option.

As a side note, can we get away from the trend of "lets motorize the charger cover door"?

Seriously, what is wrong with the same mechanism that gas doors have used for the last forever?

Thats actually one of the things that drives me nuts about the Rivian R1 series. Now, they're far from the only EV's with motorized charging cover doors (my Ioniq 9 has one :/). But more the "needless electrification" of things, like the air vents direction being controlled via the touchscreen rather than just physical controls. Or the center console opening electronically.

 

[cyure]

All this talk about width - it would be nice if the mirrors auto-fold when the car is turned off. I don't know if that's something that exists or is already common in EVs (or even ICE cars/trucks)?

The Supra you can set it up to fold when you set the alarm and it unfolds when you unlock it. It’s a setting tho. You can choose to have it not do that.

 

[robothero]

Our volvo auto-folds when you lock the car, and if you press both mirror buttons together otherwise it will fold/unfold them. I think you can also double press one of the buttons and it will angle it down for parking

 

[cyure]

Our volvo auto-folds when you lock the car, and if you press both mirror buttons together otherwise it will fold/unfold them. I think you can also double press one of the buttons and it will angle it down for parking

The Supra is a BMW in that regard and it automatically tilts the mirrors down when you put it in reverse like my other BMWs did.

 

[THil08]

The Supra is a BMW in that regard and it automatically tilts the mirrors down when you put it in reverse like my other BMWs did.

Best feature. Ever invented. Its so good in fact that on my 1976 F150, i purposely keep my passenger mirror tilted down.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

All this talk about width - it would be nice if the mirrors auto-fold when the car is turned off. I don't know if that's something that exists or is already common in EVs (or even newer ICE cars/trucks)?

It’s been an option on most vehicles I’ve considered in the past decade. Maybe not always standard, though.

 

[R1TVT]

All this talk about width - it would be nice if the mirrors auto-fold when the car is turned off. I don't know if that's something that exists or is already common in EVs (or even newer ICE cars/trucks)?

Yes, its a setting. In certain trucks...

 

[weavahVBC]

It’s been an option on most vehicles I’ve considered in the past decade. Maybe not always standard, though.

Yeah, I'm sure I've seen it, I just don't remember noticing - if that makes sense. And it seems like a pretty minor thing that can have a big positive impact on a wider vehicle.

Just over the summer I was walking my dog & heard a car take the mirror off an SUV that was parked on the street. I don't think the parked car was hit, so if the mirror had been collapsed it might still be attached. And even after that I still don't remember to fold mine in when I get out of the car.