Battery only or harvester.. starting to rethink it.

[mastertroll]

I've switched from a Tesla to a Ford F-150 Lightning. I miss the superior software experience and smoother ride quality of the Tesla, but I really appreciate a few standout features on the Lightning—like its full-size proportions, onboard power outlets, and the ability to illuminate the area around the truck with its lighting setup.

That said, if Scout Motors can combine those practical advantages into something even better, then I'd switch to the Scout Terra for that reason alone.

I'm skeptical about whether the added weight of the onboard generator (the "Harvester" range extender) will be worth it for me personally, but I could be proven wrong. I really need to get behind the wheel and drive it to see how it handles in real life.

From what I've seen so far, though, I'd lean toward the pure battery-electric Terra model that delivers a genuine 450–500 mile range without the generator—assuming they can actually achieve that kind of efficiency and capacity in the final production version (current projections are around 350 miles for the BEV, but I'm hopeful for improvements or a higher-spec option).


I know Scout hasn't promised 4-500 mile range in a battery only model so take this as feedback. You need to offer bigger battery like the Silverado EV so it does(it realistically gets 450 real miles). And you need to offer closer specs to the upcoming Lightning's 700 mile range for the harvester model.

I've seen way too many EV makers claim ranges like 320 miles only for real-world driving to knock off 20–40% depending on conditions—highway speeds, cold weather, towing, you name it. I've done extensive range testing myself with both my old Tesla and the current Ford F-150 Lightning, and while Ford does a somewhat better job of delivering closer to their EPA numbers in many scenarios, the gap is still there for trucks especially. I've driven without AC or heat and there's just no way to hit those numbers.

So when Scout announces their pure electric Terra with an estimated 350 miles of range (based on current projections for the ~120–130 kWh battery pack).. you'll have another EV truck that does 250 miles.

My straightforward advice: Match what the Chevrolet Silverado EV does with its higher-capacity battery options in the EV-only models. The Silverado EV offers packs up to around 205 kWh (in the Max Range versions), delivering EPA estimates of 440–493 miles depending on the trim—real-world results are often solid in the high 300s to low 400s for many owners under mixed conditions. No more of this sub-350-mile "false advertising" nonsense that leaves people stressed on longer trips.

Honestly, if an EV truck can genuinely deliver around 400 miles of usable real-world range (factoring in typical losses), that solves a ton of the range anxiety problems for most people—daily commutes, weekend getaways, even some road trips without constant charging stops. That's the benchmark Scout (or anyone else) should aim for in a pure BEV configuration.

Scout Motors' New Range Extended EV Truck Doesn't Have Great Towing Capacity, But Neither Do Most EV Trucks https://share.google/WTlBxhuAMKWksaOjy

 

[J Alynn]

Awh that’s terrible but seats are so important. We had a Miata RF and that seat bothered my husbands back so much we only had it 600 miles and traded it in.

It sucks because rest or car and experience was probably one of best cars I ever owned

 

[J Alynn]

Did you have sport seats?

No, sadly it was the standard. At the time I was biking a lot and it was prior to me having a “professional” bike fitting so I think that was causing pain. Few years ago we spent a week in Canada in a rental X3 and I had a bit of issue but not nearly as bad so not sure if biking was part of issue or if X3 seats were less bolstered. Either way I guess I should rent one for a day sometime and see if things changed but it’s an expensive proposition to buy one to figure out if it still bothers me

 

[strider]

It's not just Tesla. Show me one EV besides the SEV that achieves it rated range (let alone highway speeds).

You have been jaded by Tesla. They use the maximum allowed "factor" from EPA to calculate range. They are always WAY off.

The Germans are generally quite conservative. Everyone else inflates. Here is data from 2023:

Tested: How EPA EV Range Figures Compare with Reality

In our real-world highway testing, we're seeing big differences in the relative performance of EVs versus gas-powered vehicles. What gives?

www.caranddriver.com

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I run a regular road trip from northern Arizona to Los Angeles and back about one or two times a month, sometimes less, sometimes more. No fewer than six times a year. The one-way distance between my departure and destination is 474 miles. I drive at 72-73 mph unless I get stuck behind a truck for a few miles (slower) and then overtake the truck (faster than 75 mph). The trip includes two stops for restroom, charge, and meals. It takes me between 7 and 8 hours every time, and the 8 hours is usually due to traffic, sometimes due to weather. I usually do 100-300 miles around the LA valley when I’m there, and then I drive home. The usual total distance is 1100-1200 miles round trip.

Since buying the Lightning, I’ve almost exclusively driven it on this trip. Its size sucks for in-town driving, but it’s the most comfortable vehicle I’ve owned.

On that trip, my median range while driving down to LA in the Lightning is 330 miles, or just over 2.5 miles/kWh. The only time it’s been less is when there are snowstorms at high elevations and in the springtime when the Santa Ana winds come up. (These are 30 mph to 40 mph steady winds with higher-speed gusts. Looking back at the post in this thread by @R1TVT, you add those winds to your travel speed to get the power requirements, which goes as the cube of the sum of the speeds, so it’s like driving 100+ mph). For most of the year, I can comfortably travel 255 miles on the freeway to my first charging stop with enough reserve to make it to a backup charger, if necessary, but I always know if I need to stop early. When the Santa Ana winds are blowing, I’ll usually stop a little earlier to charge up, eat, and relax before going into the maelstrom.

In LA traffic, my median range is more than 1,000 miles. That’s not a typo. I drive several regular routes that allow me to keep a steady speed of 35 mph for 40-100 miles round trip. At 35 mph, minimal stopping and just flowing, I can easily get 8-9 miles/kWh. I will never realistically get 1000 miles range on one charge because I’m never driving 35 mph for 28 hours. But when I drive off-highway, through the desert, on forest service roads, etc., I can often get 4-5 miles/kWh.

On the way home, I climb from near sea level to ~7300 feet elevation, still fight the Santa Ana winds (they’re crosswinds, so their impact is actually greater than if they were headwinds, and they’re usually not helpful as a tailwind). The return trip is, obviously more energy expensive. I typically get around 2 miles/kWh for the entire return trip when it’s windy in the desert and cold on the mountain.

Overall for the freeway portions of the trip—down off the high elevation, through the windy desert, to city, then back up through the windy desert (against the wind both ways because they’re crosswinds), up the high elevation climb—I get an average of about 2.25 miles/kWh (288 miles range on my 131 kWh battery). The 2.25 miles/kWh doesn’t include the outlier range driving around town in Los Angeles.

Some things I do differently from maybe some other drivers: I did the calculations of what’s the optimal speed for getting where I’m going in a reasonable time vs energy use vs the overhead cost of stopping, and 72-73 mph is the optimal speed; faster and I just have to charge for longer, and slower means I don’t save enough to justify unless there’s an issue like especially strong winds. I run with 45-48 PSI in my tires, despite the Ford recommended pressure of 39 PSI; I don’t have significantly faster tire wear, but the ride is rougher. I don’t feel the need to rush. I don’t eat in the vehicle. I’ve been doing this trip for decades and it’s always taken me 7-8 hours depending on weather and traffic. It still does in the BEVs.

The ABRP route planner suggests it takes about 8 hours, but it’s conservative. It’s conservative for good reason, but its conservative models mean people assume take that as gospel and that you can’t do better than their model.

Even so, there are two short stops in ABRP, and if I wanted I could reduce it to one stop. Notice the large distances between charging stations along most of the route. The longest distance between chargers is 122 miles and they are highlighted as the two stops in the map below. Between those stops is also where the winds are the worst and there’s a lot of elevation loss and regain and loss. I don’t usually stop at the 17 minute stop; I usually stop earlier because I like good food for lunch and the indicated stop doesn’t have decent food. I also like clean restrooms, and that stop doesn’t have clean restrooms.

 

[mastertroll]

I run a regular road trip from northern Arizona to Los Angeles and back about one or two times a month, sometimes less, sometimes more. No fewer than six times a year. The one-way distance between my departure and destination is 474 miles. I drive at 72-73 mph unless I get stuck behind a truck for a few miles (slower) and then overtake the truck (faster than 75 mph). The trip includes two stops for restroom, charge, and meals. It takes me between 7 and 8 hours every time, and the 8 hours is usually due to traffic, sometimes due to weather. I usually do 100-300 miles around the LA valley when I’m there, and then I drive home. The usual total distance is 1100-1200 miles round trip.

Since buying the Lightning, I’ve almost exclusively driven it on this trip. Its size sucks for in-town driving, but it’s the most comfortable vehicle I’ve owned.

On that trip, my median range while driving down to LA in the Lightning is 330 miles, or just over 2.5 miles/kWh. The only time it’s been less is when there are snowstorms at high elevations and in the springtime when the Santa Ana winds come up. (These are 30 mph to 40 mph steady winds with higher-speed gusts. Looking back at the post in this thread by @R1TVT, you add those winds to your travel speed to get the power requirements, which goes as the cube of the sum of the speeds, so it’s like driving 100+ mph). For most of the year, I can comfortably travel 255 miles on the freeway to my first charging stop with enough reserve to make it to a backup charger, if necessary, but I always know if I need to stop early. When the Santa Ana winds are blowing, I’ll usually stop a little earlier to charge up, eat, and relax before going into the maelstrom.

In LA traffic, my median range is more than 1,000 miles. That’s not a typo. I drive several regular routes that allow me to keep a steady speed of 35 mph for 40-100 miles round trip. At 35 mph, minimal stopping and just flowing, I can easily get 8-9 miles/kWh. I will never realistically get 1000 miles range on one charge because I’m never driving 35 mph for 28 hours. But when I drive off-highway, through the desert, on forest service roads, etc., I can often get 4-5 miles/kWh.

On the way home, I climb from near sea level to ~7300 feet elevation, still fight the Santa Ana winds (they’re crosswinds, so their impact is actually greater than if they were headwinds, and they’re usually not helpful as a tailwind). The return trip is, obviously more energy expensive. I typically get around 2 miles/kWh for the entire return trip when it’s windy in the desert and cold on the mountain.

Overall for the freeway portions of the trip—down off the high elevation, through the windy desert, to city, then back up through the windy desert (against the wind both ways because they’re crosswinds), up the high elevation climb—I get an average of about 2.25 miles/kWh (288 miles range on my 131 kWh battery). The 2.25 miles/kWh doesn’t include the outlier range driving around town in Los Angeles.

Some things I do differently from maybe some other drivers: I did the calculations of what’s the optimal speed for getting where I’m going in a reasonable time vs energy use vs the overhead cost of stopping, and 72-73 mph is the optimal speed; faster and I just have to charge for longer, and slower means I don’t save enough to justify unless there’s an issue like especially strong winds. I run with 45-48 PSI in my tires, despite the Ford recommended pressure of 39 PSI; I don’t have significantly faster tire wear, but the ride is rougher. I don’t feel the need to rush. I don’t eat in the vehicle. I’ve been doing this trip for decades and it’s always taken me 7-8 hours depending on weather and traffic. It still does in the BEVs.

View attachment 14145


The ABRP route planner suggests it takes about 8 hours, but it’s conservative. It’s conservative for good reason, but its conservative models mean people assume take that as gospel and that you can’t do better than their model.

Even so, there are two short stops in ABRP, and if I wanted I could reduce it to one stop. Notice the large distances between charging stations along most of the route. The longest distance between chargers is 122 miles and they are highlighted as the two stops in the map below. Between those stops is also where the winds are the worst and there’s a lot of elevation loss and regain and loss. I don’t usually stop at the 17 minute stop; I usually stop earlier because I like good food for lunch and the indicated stop doesn’t have decent food. I also like clean restrooms, and that stop doesn’t have clean restrooms.

View attachment 14152

I always plan to charge around 250. I think the Lightning is the best full sized electric truck on the road right now. Let's see what Scout can come up with.