Harvester towing

[mbeadnell]

I would strongly suggest the harvester model towing more than 5k. This is going to be a deal breaker for most people and cause a lot of cancelled reservations. My opinion but I would not have announced something like this without all the details
In place to make a firm stance. This has created a lot of confusion and speculation and as a result many cancelled reservations. I would like to see the Terra at least able
To tow 7500 at minimum and the traveler at 5000k minimum. It makes no sense for both the tow the same with one able
To tow nearly 3k more on the pure ev models. This is just my suggestion. Keeping the price within the mentioned amount during announcement I hope is possible to have the towing range increased ( 7500 for Terra 5000 for traveler) that’s my suggestion and opinion.

 

[6-ScoutFamily]

…

Note that the standard method for calculating GVWR and GCWR assumes a 150 pound driver and 150 pound passenger… How many people know that’s the standard?

And how many people MEET that standard? (Notice my hand is not raised).

 

[J Alynn]

And how many people MEET that standard? (Notice my hand is not raised).

Not me. Sadly

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

You never cease to amaze me with your experiences and analysis. Can I ask what “age group” you are? If you are a Boomer like me or close to it, how much paradigm shifting have you had to do?

I'm just about 50. I grew up off-grid and very poor, so we did everything ourselves--cars, mechanicals, carpentry, plumbing, solar, windmill maintenance, welding, electrician, masonry, etc. I started at a very young age. I've had several dozen jobs that required very different skills. In no particular order: the previously mentioned trades, teaching, electronics repair, electrical engineering, IT, physics, chemistry, statistics, mathematics, space sciences, geology, corporate mentorship, curriculum development, forestry, gardening, fire fighter, CEO, board member, startup founder, etc, etc, etc. It took me 7 years to complete my undergraduate degree in mathematics because I changed majors ever semester or two. My graduate degree in planetary sciences required work in most of the science fields, from optics to chemistry to EE to physics to geology.

As you put it, I've had a lot of paradigm shifts.

Also, I have ADHD, excessive curiosity, and insomnia, so I read. A LOT. And I deep-dive into the things that grab my interest, many of which are technical.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Not me. Sadly

Nor I.

 

[Chaz26]

And how many people MEET that standard? (Notice my hand is not raised).

If you use BMI (which I know is not fully reliable as a healthy weight guide) then if you are 6’4 or taller then being 150lbs would be an unhealthily low weight. You can also be just over 150lbs at 5’6 and still be a healthy weight according to BMI so plenty of healthy people are never going to be anywhere near that standard before you even bring in anyone who is slightly overweight.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

If you use BMI (which I know is not fully reliable as a healthy weight guide) then if you are 6’4 or taller then being 150lbs would be an unhealthily low weight. You can also be just over 150lbs at 5’6 and still be a healthy weight according to BMI so plenty of healthy people are never going to be anywhere near that standard before you even bring in anyone who is slightly overweight.

Yep. And few people know to include their combined weights over 300 to account for the added load and reduced cargo capacity.

 

[Mousehunter]

I kind of always assumed that most if not all EV's used controllers which were essentially VRD's. They are kind of necessary for dealing with variable speed brushless motors. Brushed motors vary speed based on voltage, but the brushes also create a frequency that varies directly with that speed (by contacts changing which series of coils are being powered based on contact positions with the spinning armature).

 

[mbeadnell]

Hopefully we get some updates soon. I almost wish CEO did not put the 5k number in the air without numbers being finalized. Has led to speculation now.

 

[Chavannigans]

Hopefully we get some updates soon. I almost wish CEO did not put the 5k number in the air without numbers being finalized. Has led to speculation now.

That interview has probably aged @Jamie@ScoutMotors a few decades.

We just have to assume they have heard feedback from everyone and will be trying to maximize its towing and payload ratings.

 

[J Alynn]

That interview has probably aged @Jamie@ScoutMotors a few decades.

We just have to assume they have heard feedback from everyone and will be trying to maximize its towing and payload ratings.

Some days I wonder if it wasn’t a strategy. Claim something controversial early on-make sure it remains a talking point. With 2 years to go very few people will just bail out completely. Then a year from now announce better numbers-even if not quite as high-or maybe higher then it becomes a wonder product. That’s my positive outlook on the situation

 

[dreamweaver]

Some days I wonder if it wasn’t a strategy. Claim something controversial early on-make sure it remains a talking point. With 2 years to go very few people will just bail out completely. Then a year from now announce better numbers-even if not quite as high-or maybe higher then it becomes a wonder product. That’s my positive outlook on the situation

I am pretty sure SM did not go out of their way to deceive us. They new they needed a number and thats the safest number the engineers were comfortable with without complete testing. We will know soon enough.

 

[SrfnFly227]

If, as it's been speculated, the reduction in towing capacity is due to the weight of the harvester over the axle, I really hope they reassess it's location. I love the idea of a frunk, but I'd gladly give it up in order to tow 7k. If it can't tow 6k (my use case), I'll most likely end up BEV.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Scout’s engineers probably told management that, “if our calculations are correct,” 5000 pounds is the lowest towing capacity you should expect. That number then stuck with management.

There’s been a similar discussion among some Lightning owners.
The maximum tow capacity of the Lightning is 10,000 pounds, but your trim and package selection can bring it down to 5100 pounds rated towing capacity. But even that cannot be achieved without a weight distributing hitch. All of the following assume a WDH is being used. The maximum for any bumper tow Lightning without a WDH is 5000 pounds, and I think that’s true for most non-HD vehicles with higher tow ratings.

See footnotes 3-7 in the attached image for the various options that impact the GCWR and tow capacity on the Lightning. The GVWR is either 8350 or 8550, depending on the battery option. There are two tow capacities with the GVWR of 8350 (standard range battery): 5100 or 7700 pounds. The lowest tow capacity for the extended range battery option is 7700 pounds. You can increase it to 8600 by getting the Platinum without the tow package. If you have a Lariat or Flash with the max tow package but not the right tires, you’re limited to 9600 pounds. You can finally gain the rating for those last 400 pounds by having the proper tires installed at the factory. The XLT, Flash, Lariat, and Platinum all have the same frame, axles, and suspension.

The specifics of why/how weight ratings are calculated are in the SAE J2807 standard. What will impact the Scout ratings will depend on weight distribution as much as things like axle strength, frame strength, brake size, etc. I’m sure I said it in this thread or one of the several other threads: the size of the smaller, LFP battery on the hybrid and where they put the bulk of the Harvester engine will determine the tow rating. My guess is there’s only so much NVH they’re willing to accept for tow rating. They’re not building HD tow monsters.

 

[dreamweaver]

Scout’s engineers probably told management that, “if our calculations are correct,” 5000 pounds is the lowest towing capacity you should expect. That number then stuck with management.

There’s been a similar discussion among some Lightning owners.
The maximum tow capacity of the Lightning is 10,000 pounds, but your trim and package selection can bring it down to 5100 pounds rated towing capacity. But even that cannot be achieved without a weight distributing hitch. All of the following assume a WDH is being used. The maximum for any bumper tow Lightning without a WDH is 5000 pounds, and I think that’s true for most non-HD vehicles with higher tow ratings.

See footnotes 3-7 in the attached image for the various options that impact the GCWR and tow capacity on the Lightning. The GVWR is either 8350 or 8550, depending on the battery option. There are two tow capacities with the GVWR of 8350 (standard range battery): 5100 or 7700 pounds. The lowest tow capacity for the extended range battery option is 7700 pounds. You can increase it to 8600 by getting the Platinum without the tow package. If you have a Lariat or Flash with the max tow package but not the right tires, you’re limited to 9600 pounds. You can finally gain the rating for those last 400 pounds by having the proper tires installed at the factory. The XLT, Flash, Lariat, and Platinum all have the same frame, axles, and suspension.

The specifics of why/how weight ratings are calculated are in the SAE J2807 standard. What will impact the Scout ratings will depend on weight distribution as much as things like axle strength, frame strength, brake size, etc. I’m sure I said it in this thread or one of the several other threads: the size of the smaller, LFP battery on the hybrid and where they put the bulk of the Harvester engine will determine the tow rating. My guess is there’s only so much NVH they’re willing to give up for tow rating. They’re not building HD tow monsters.



View attachment 8645

Great explanation Thanks.

 

[J Alynn]

I am pretty sure SM did not go out of their way to deceive us. They new they needed a number and thats the safest number the engineers were comfortable with without complete testing. We will know soon enough.

Not disagreeing but putting it out knowing they have stretch goals they can meet would certainly look better.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

Scout’s engineers probably told management that, “if our calculations are correct,” 5000 pounds is the lowest towing capacity you should expect. That number then stuck with management.

There’s been a similar discussion among some Lightning owners.
The maximum tow capacity of the Lightning is 10,000 pounds, but your trim and package selection can bring it down to 5100 pounds rated towing capacity. But even that cannot be achieved without a weight distributing hitch. All of the following assume a WDH is being used. The maximum for any bumper tow Lightning without a WDH is 5000 pounds, and I think that’s true for most non-HD vehicles with higher tow ratings.

See footnotes 3-7 in the attached image for the various options that impact the GCWR and tow capacity on the Lightning. The GVWR is either 8350 or 8550, depending on the battery option. There are two tow capacities with the GVWR of 8350 (standard range battery): 5100 or 7700 pounds. The lowest tow capacity for the extended range battery option is 7700 pounds. You can increase it to 8600 by getting the Platinum without the tow package. If you have a Lariat or Flash with the max tow package but not the right tires, you’re limited to 9600 pounds. You can finally gain the rating for those last 400 pounds by having the proper tires installed at the factory. The XLT, Flash, Lariat, and Platinum all have the same frame, axles, and suspension.

The specifics of why/how weight ratings are calculated are in the SAE J2807 standard. What will impact the Scout ratings will depend on weight distribution as much as things like axle strength, frame strength, brake size, etc. I’m sure I said it in this thread or one of the several other threads: the size of the smaller, LFP battery on the hybrid and where they put the bulk of the Harvester engine will determine the tow rating. My guess is there’s only so much NVH they’re willing to accept for tow rating. They’re not building HD tow monsters.



View attachment 8645

Great breakdown. Just for fun is there a similar one page document for the standard F150 to compare with the Lightning?

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Great breakdown. Just for fun is there a similar one page document for the standard F150 to compare with the Lightning?

Yep!

Note that you can get different axles/suspension in the gassy truck, which means you can get another bump up in towing capability.
And, of course, you can order the tow/haul package, which provides the bigger alternator, bigger radiator, etc.

https://www.vdm.ford.com/content/dam/brand_ford/en_us/brand/towing/pdf/2025-Ford-RV-and-Trailer-Towing-Guide_v1.pdf

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

And for the V6 and the supercharged engines. Honestly, too many options.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

And the mild hybrid.
The Hybrid has a GVWR of 7100 pounds.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Finally, here’s a breakdown of the tow/haul/trailering packages.