Battery only or harvester.. starting to rethink it.

[mastertroll]

I've switched from a Tesla to a Ford F-150 Lightning. I miss the superior software experience and smoother ride quality of the Tesla, but I really appreciate a few standout features on the Lightning—like its full-size proportions, onboard power outlets, and the ability to illuminate the area around the truck with its lighting setup.

That said, if Scout Motors can combine those practical advantages into something even better, then I'd switch to the Scout Terra for that reason alone.

I'm skeptical about whether the added weight of the onboard generator (the "Harvester" range extender) will be worth it for me personally, but I could be proven wrong. I really need to get behind the wheel and drive it to see how it handles in real life.

From what I've seen so far, though, I'd lean toward the pure battery-electric Terra model that delivers a genuine 450–500 mile range without the generator—assuming they can actually achieve that kind of efficiency and capacity in the final production version (current projections are around 350 miles for the BEV, but I'm hopeful for improvements or a higher-spec option).


I know Scout hasn't promised 4-500 mile range in a battery only model so take this as feedback. You need to offer bigger battery like the Silverado EV so it does(it realistically gets 450 real miles). And you need to offer closer specs to the upcoming Lightning's 700 mile range for the harvester model.

I've seen way too many EV makers claim ranges like 320 miles only for real-world driving to knock off 20–40% depending on conditions—highway speeds, cold weather, towing, you name it. I've done extensive range testing myself with both my old Tesla and the current Ford F-150 Lightning, and while Ford does a somewhat better job of delivering closer to their EPA numbers in many scenarios, the gap is still there for trucks especially. I've driven without AC or heat and there's just no way to hit those numbers.

So when Scout announces their pure electric Terra with an estimated 350 miles of range (based on current projections for the ~120–130 kWh battery pack).. you'll have another EV truck that does 250 miles.

My straightforward advice: Match what the Chevrolet Silverado EV does with its higher-capacity battery options in the EV-only models. The Silverado EV offers packs up to around 205 kWh (in the Max Range versions), delivering EPA estimates of 440–493 miles depending on the trim—real-world results are often solid in the high 300s to low 400s for many owners under mixed conditions. No more of this sub-350-mile "false advertising" nonsense that leaves people stressed on longer trips.

Honestly, if an EV truck can genuinely deliver around 400 miles of usable real-world range (factoring in typical losses), that solves a ton of the range anxiety problems for most people—daily commutes, weekend getaways, even some road trips without constant charging stops. That's the benchmark Scout (or anyone else) should aim for in a pure BEV configuration.

Scout Motors' New Range Extended EV Truck Doesn't Have Great Towing Capacity, But Neither Do Most EV Trucks https://share.google/WTlBxhuAMKWksaOjy

 

[Logan]

My optimal conditions type numbers come very close to Edmunds Test numbers, which aren't a straight 70MPH HWY run, but rather mimic more real-world day to day to day driving with a 60/40 (city/hwy) split done by two drivers in one day starting at 100% SOC:

View attachment 14131

How does Edmunds conduct its testing?​

Instrumented testing is at the core of every Edmunds rating and review. We drive hundreds of cars each year and take pride in our independent testing, and Edmunds is one of the few publications that still publishes proprietary testing numbers for the vehicles we rate and review. The data you see in Edmunds reviews (and much more data that doesn't make it online) was gathered by our team of experts, allowing us to verify whether claims, such as a 0 to 60 mph time, hold up to what a manufacturer states. We created the Edmunds EV Range Test as a way to compare estimates from the EPA and manufacturers with the results of actual driving in the real world.

The methodology​

As with our instrumented track testing, we aim to be as thorough and consistent as possible in conducting the Edmunds EV Range Test. The cars we test are new and have been purchased by Edmunds or supplied by an automaker. The night before a test, each vehicle is charged to 100% and tire pressures are adjusted to the manufacturer's settings. As with gas-powered cars, having your tires at the wrong pressure can affect efficiency.

The EPA's guidelines call for a vehicle to be tested in the default settings at startup. A vehicle may have more efficient drive modes available (such as Eco or Efficiency), and you may be able to adjust the level of regenerative braking, but if the vehicle doesn't default to these settings, they won't be used. We do things slightly differently.

Edmunds' standard practice is to use the most efficient drive mode available as long as it doesn't compromise safety or practical comfort levels, such as fully deactivating the climate control system, significantly reducing power for acceleration, or limiting a vehicle's highway speeds. We're not trying to achieve the best range possible; rather, we're testing how EVs perform in the real world. We test each vehicle with windows up and the climate control set to auto at 72 degrees. If there's a "driver only" setting for the climate control, we'll use that as well. We also set the regenerative braking to its maximum setting.

To measure speed, distances and more, we attach Racelogic VBOX data logging devices to each car. These are the same data loggers that we use for our track testing and our Edmunds U-Drags series. However, we've worked with Racelogic to develop a custom program specifically for the Edmunds EV Range Test, which allows us to better monitor progress in real time.

The VBOX utilizes GPS, GLONASS, Beidou, and Galileo satellite constellations to accurately track real-time speed, overall average speed, distance traveled, and display a readout of the amount of highway driving completed over the course of the test. The key with our custom program is that it allows us to make calculations on the fly regarding distance and speed. This means we can be consistent across all of our testing no matter the road or traffic conditions. If average speeds or highway percentages are off the mark, we can adjust our route to bring things in line.

While we also track distance using a vehicle's trip odometer, the numbers we publish are based on those from the VBOX, as there's often a slight disparity between the two. We also utilize sensors and warning lights within the VBOX to ensure that drivers don't accelerate or brake too aggressively while driving.

Every test starts and ends at the Edmunds office, but the route length is adapted to suit each vehicle while aiming for a mix of 60% city driving and 40% highway. The driving is done all in a single day, and for vehicles with an EPA-estimated range of over 300 miles, we often split the test between two drivers.

Each vehicle is driven until there's 10 miles of indicated range remaining. Those 10 miles are a safety buffer to ensure that drivers can make it back to the office without getting stranded. That remaining range is added to the total distance driven (as indicated by the VBOX) for our final range figure.

I will say, as an owner of a 320mile rated EV, range around town/day to day local use, range is almost never even thought of. As almost any EV these days, will have enough range for normal day to day use on a 80-100% charge, unless your needs are extensive (200 miles or more, especially if it is on the highway, in winter time, could be an issue, but the number of people with 100+ mile 1 way commutes, is relatively small).

So in that case, I don't really think that city/mixed range "matters" all that much to most modern EV buyers anymore. Simply because as you say, EV's get better efficiency in town/at slower speeds (I've had mine show an estimated range almost 90 miles over the EPA range), and you also ... go slower at slower speeds, so it almost gets hard to drive more than a single charge in a single day. I mean, you could totally do it, but I think you'd almost have to try for it to be an issue for most people.

I do think that the 70-75mph range tests, are useful. Because, I do think that the times when people DO care about the range, it is on the highway.

So I'd actually be in favor of the EPA range being split into mixed, and highway numbers, much like fuel economy has been done in the past. That way people could buy knowing what sort of actual highway range they should be able to expect, when it matters most.

 

[mastertroll]

I will say, as an owner of a 320mile rated EV, range around town/day to day local use, is almost never even thought of. As almost any EV these days, will have enough range for normal day to day use on a 80-100% charge, unless your needs are extensive (200 miles or more, especially if it is on the highway, in winter time, could be an issue, but the number of people with 100+ mile 1 way commutes, is relatively small).

So in that case, I don't really think that city/mixed range "matters" all that much to most modern EV buyers anymore. Simply because as you say, EV's get better efficiency in town/at slower speeds (I've had mine show an estimated range almost 90 miles over the EPA range), and you also ... go slower at slower speeds, so it almost gets hard to drive more than a single charge in a single day. I mean, you could totally do it, but I think you'd almost have to try for it to be an issue for most people.

I do think that the 70-75mph range tests, are useful. Because, I do think that the times when people DO care about the range, it is on the highway.

So I'd actually be in favor of the EPA range being split into mixed, and highway numbers, much like fuel economy has been done in the past. That way people could buy knowing what sort of actual highway range they should be able to expect, when it matters most.

Totally agree.. the bar has been raised. Btw.. I charged at Rivian chargers the other day.. they are really good. As good as Tesla. The chart you shared with model 3.. I can't speak to other vehicles but it's hard to believe the Tesla. Lol

 

[R1TVT]

I will say, as an owner of a 320mile rated EV, range around town/day to day local use, is almost never even thought of. As almost any EV these days, will have enough range for normal day to day use on a 80-100% charge, unless your needs are extensive (200 miles or more, especially if it is on the highway, in winter time, could be an issue, but the number of people with 100+ mile 1 way commutes, is relatively small).

So in that case, I don't really think that city/mixed range "matters" all that much to most modern EV buyers anymore. Simply because as you say, EV's get better efficiency in town/at slower speeds (I've had mine show an estimated range almost 90 miles over the EPA range), and you also ... go slower at slower speeds, so it almost gets hard to drive more than a single charge in a single day. I mean, you could totally do it, but I think you'd almost have to try for it to be an issue for most people.

I do think that the 70-75mph range tests, are useful. Because, I do think that the times when people DO care about the range, it is on the highway.

So I'd actually be in favor of the EPA range being split into mixed, and highway numbers, much like fuel economy has been done in the past. That way people could buy knowing what sort of actual highway range they should be able to expect, when it matters most.

Totally agree that range is really only important and something I think about when on a longer road trip.

My point was more along the lines of showing that the numbers are lining up for a variety of different tests, and that if you do the research you will see there are actually a healthy number of EV options that meet or exceed their published numbers. The variables are everything though, and with all the tech that EV's offer, you see range impacts in real-time on the screen in front of your face. When range is degraded (and I do see that in the winter for sure), it often time has very little impact on my overall travel, I would need to be going really long to be adding significant stops (increasing trip duration).

This shows that 1/3 to 1/2 of EV's tested meet or exceed EPA range estimates. Most humans (myself included) don't really drive to an "EPA number" though:

 

[mastertroll]

Totally agree that range is really only important and something I think about when on a longer road trip.

My point was more along the lines of showing that the numbers are lining up for a variety of different tests, and that if you do the research you will see there are actually a healthy number of EV options that meet or exceed their published numbers. The variables are everything though, and with all the tech that EV's offer, you see range impacts in real-time on the screen in front of your face. When range is degraded (and I do see that in the winter for sure), it often time has very little impact on my overall travel, I would need to be going really long to be adding significant stops (increasing trip duration).

This shows that 1/3 to 1/2 of EV's tested meet or exceed EPA range estimates. Most humans (myself included) don't really drive to an "EPA number" though:

View attachment 14134

I didn't realize it was that high. I assumed Tesla was the leader. I'm happy to know that things are moving that direction.

I will give one caveat.. numbers on papers and what people can actually achieve are definitely two different things. Like I just saw a chart that says the model 3 got 1 mi below the rated range.. there's either quality control issue or that's complete BS and not achievable. I ran tests and we're talking about 188 mile run and I would be worried about making it

 

[J Alynn]

This is what I am trying to impart ;p

*Scout has the oppertunity to not be a Tesla. They can do what GM did and actually surpass even what they said it could do. (Most of those EPA ratings are at slower speeds which are unrealistic)

The concern becomes available space for more batteries and the break point between weight and range. There is only so much room under the trucks.

 

[mastertroll]

The concern becomes available space for more batteries and the break point between weight and range. There is only so much room under the trucks.

How about take the battery out of a Silverado EVER and put it into Terra

 

[J Alynn]

How many highway miles you get? 70 MPH. You can see from the video above, the only one that pulls it off is the SEV long range. The Rivian is close though. Only thing is we aren't going to drive to 0%.. So it's a bit unrealistic in that sense. That’s an important factor in my buying decision. I want a vehicle that performs as advertised. The old model of EV manufacturers overstating or misrepresenting range just isn’t acceptable anymore.

But the ranges are set based on consistent performance testing and day to day driving will vary with every driver. So there may be some that see it spot on while other get impacted on “lead foot” alone whereas a fully urban driver may rip 400+ miles of range. And geography and seasons play a huge role as well. So how do you establish the defined range with all those factors? Somebody is always gonna fall short and someone else will do very well

 

[Logan]

How about take the battery out of a Silverado EVER and put it into Terra

AFAIK, it isn't really that easy to just "take the battery" from one EV, and put it in another.

Many of the times, the batteries are designed/configured in a way to be either structural to the frame/stiffness of the vehicle, or packaged in/around the frame/unibody. So you can't just "swap a Silverado EV battery into a Terra", as easily as swapping out a bunch of AA's, for the AA's in another vehicle.

Also, fun fact, the Silverado battery is somewhere around ~3k lbs.

I hear you though. I'm curious how the batteries will be setup in here, because this is going to be an actual body on frame design. And IIRC, the Silverado EV was a unibody (no gap between bed and cab). So there may not be as much space for batteries as the Silverado.

 

[cyure]

AFAIK, it isn't really that easy to just "take the battery" from one EV, and put it in another.

Many of the times, the batteries are designed/configured in a way to be either structural to the frame/stiffness of the vehicle, or packaged in/around the frame/unibody. So you can't just "swap a Silverado EV battery into a Terra", as easily as swapping out a bunch of AA's, for the AA's in another vehicle.

Also, fun fact, the Silverado battery is somewhere around ~3k lbs.

I hear you though. I'm curious how the batteries will be setup in here, because this is going to be an actual body on frame design. And IIRC, the Silverado EV was a unibody (no gap between bed and cab). So there may not be as much space for batteries as the Silverado.

3,000 pounds! Isn’t that like a whole Miata or something as a battery?

 

[Logan]

3,000 pounds! Isn’t that like a whole Miata or something as a battery?

Yep!

In fact, its almost double the weight of a Lotus Elise, and at least 500lbs or so heavier than a Miata. And in fact, its only 800-1000lbs or so heavier than my 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Batteries are HEAVY.

 

[mastertroll]

But the ranges are set based on consistent performance testing and day to day driving will vary with every driver. So there may be some that see it spot on while other get impacted on “lead foot” alone whereas a fully urban driver may rip 400+ miles of range. And geography and seasons play a huge role as well. So how do you establish the defined range with all those factors? Somebody is always gonna fall short and someone else will do very well

I can tell you all about testing. I had to send a lot of data to Tesla. And I gave it the best of chances reaching the advertised range.. Even so much I was periodically turning off air conditioning or not running it at all depending on time of year. The end result? It doesn't hit advertised range or anywhere close to it and I guess that might be a well-known thing by now.

 

[mastertroll]

AFAIK, it isn't really that easy to just "take the battery" from one EV, and put it in another.

Many of the times, the batteries are designed/configured in a way to be either structural to the frame/stiffness of the vehicle, or packaged in/around the frame/unibody. So you can't just "swap a Silverado EV battery into a Terra", as easily as swapping out a bunch of AA's, for the AA's in another vehicle.

Also, fun fact, the Silverado battery is somewhere around ~3k lbs.

I hear you though. I'm curious how the batteries will be setup in here, because this is going to be an actual body on frame design. And IIRC, the Silverado EV was a unibody (no gap between bed and cab). So there may not be as much space for batteries as the Silverado.

Obviously I don't mean go take a Silverado EV and remove the battery lol. I'm talking about capacity. If you put a 200 KW battery pack into the lightning for example, I doubt it's going to get the same range as a Silverado but it's going to do very well. Id say 350-375.. maybe 400.

 

[R1TVT]

Yes, again, Silverado has a MASSIVE MAX RANGE battery.

Also... 1/3 more capacity = 1/3 more battery cost (so add $$$$$.$$ to Scout total cost).

My R1T Large Pack weighs-in at 1750 lbs and is 135kWh for comparison.

All that said, I think a Scout Terra battery will need to land somewhere around ~150 kWh to get 350 miles of range with AT's (SWAG)

 

[mastertroll]

Yes, again, Silverado has a MASSIVE MAX RANGE battery.

Also... 1/3 more capacity = 1/3 more battery cost (so add $$$$$.$$ to Scout total cost).

My R1T Large Pack weighs-in at 1750 lbs and is 135kWh for comparison.

All that said, I think a Scout Terra battery will need to land somewhere around ~150 kWh to get 350 miles of range with AT's (SWAG)

Yeah the battery is what costs.. I mean I'm willing to pay accordingly to get to the 400 mile plus range

 

[RodorW]

I give GM props. I wish the other manufacturers would follow suit

One thing I can say about my car, is when I get in it in the morning if it shows 265 on the dash I can get 265miles before it's dead. The cars estimations are very spot on

 

[LastDayScout]

There are a fair number of places reviewing EV's like that.

CR’s Real-World EV Range Tests Show Which Models Beat EPA Estimates - Consumer Reports

Consumer Reports' real-world electric car range tests show how far an EV can go on a highway road trip before the battery runs out.

www.consumerreports.org

View attachment 14129

70 mph range test — Out of Spec Studios

outofspecstudios.com

View attachment 14130


The more premium brands seem to do quite well. BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Audi.

But its not just those. And historically, Tesla has been particularly bad in this area. But they had a lawsuit against them a while ago IIRC, and they had to update/reduce the EPA ranges, and its a bit closer now.

In efficient mode, today the temps were in the high 70s to low 80s. My iX was at 80% and showed 366 estimated miles of range. BMW does like to understate and over perform.

 

[cyure]

In efficient mode, today the temps were in the high 70s to low 80s. My iX was at 80% and showed 366 estimated miles of range. BMW does like to understate and over perform.

BMW does that with horsepower too.

 

[J Alynn]

BMW does that with horsepower too.

If only their bolstering didn’t bother my hips I’d still have my 328 drop top

 

[cyure]

If only their bolstering didn’t bother my hips I’d still have my 328 drop top

Awh that’s terrible but seats are so important. We had a Miata RF and that seat bothered my husbands back so much we only had it 600 miles and traded it in.