Motors, Control Arms and Ground Clearance

[SpaceEVDriver]

The strut is air over hydraulic, is it not?

The ADS system adjusts the flow of the hydraulic fluid which controls rebound and dampening if I am reading this correctly.


View attachment 8487

The Definitive Guide To The Mercedes-Benz AIRMATIC Suspension System

Throughout the last twenty years, Mercedes-Benz has equipped numerous vehicles in its lineup with air-ride from the factory. Although complex, this system shouldn't be feared; it's broken up into relatively easy-to-service components.Introduced on the W220 S-Class for the 2000 model year,...

www.fcpeuro.com

Yeah, they don’t do a good job of describing their system. I think you’re right. Generally you want an incompressible, non-newtonian, visco-elastic fluid for the dampener, which air is not so good at, but hydraulic fluids of certain compositions are great at. I had assumed they were working some interesting magic and had not fully dug into the details. My apologies.

 

[TreeKiller]

The strut is air over hydraulic, is it not?

The ADS system adjusts the flow of the hydraulic fluid which controls rebound and dampening if I am reading this correctly.


View attachment 8487

The Definitive Guide To The Mercedes-Benz AIRMATIC Suspension System

Throughout the last twenty years, Mercedes-Benz has equipped numerous vehicles in its lineup with air-ride from the factory. Although complex, this system shouldn't be feared; it's broken up into relatively easy-to-service components.Introduced on the W220 S-Class for the 2000 model year,...

www.fcpeuro.com

I'm not 100% on exactly how the system is constructed, but the vehicles referenced in that guide are all much older than mine and my model isn't listed at all. Perhaps it does use hydraulics to stiffen the ride vs air, or a combination of the two. Either way, two very different systems in the two vehicles, both using air in one capacity or another.

 

[TreeKiller]

Meanwhile my 2004 Lexus GX470 has 210k miles on my factory air bags and they are still going strong.

Semi trucks use them for hundreds of thousands of miles. Lots of heavy equipment uses air ride for cabs and/or suspension.

Sounds like an incompetent/greedy dealership issue... or maybe its a Jeep thing and I just dont understand.

The Jeep dealer I was forced to use to receive warranty work at that time was, without a doubt, totally incompetent.

 

[J Alynn]

Thanks for this. Something’s I have 100% decided on. This is not one of them. I’m so used to the ride in my Wrangler it’s going to be like night and day if I do get them.

I’m torn depending on where things price out. My wife is concerned (rightfully so) that it will ride like a Bronco or a 4-runner-which it will but I keep telling her it will be better . I may end up doing the air suspension to keep her happy with traveling in it

 

[cyure]

I’m torn depending on where things price out. My wife is concerned (rightfully so) that it will ride like a Bronco or a 4-runner-which it will but I keep telling her it will be better . I may end up doing the air suspension to keep her happy with traveling in it

I’m just so used to how my Wrangler rides it doesn’t bother me anymore.

It would be nice if they did test drives like Ineos or Rivian does. They have test drive vehicles and you drive those. We need multiple with different options that we can drive and then we can place our orders based on what we like.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Most full-sized BEV SUVs and trucks will ride quite differently from a 4Runner, Bronco, or Jeep.
The center of gravity is much lower (the main single mass is between the wheels, not above the front wheels). Roll isn’t nearly as dramatic in the Lightning as compared with similar full-sized pickups. The solid axle and Harvester in the Scouts will bring back some of that behavior, but the battery will still dominate the center of gravity.

 

[Chavannigans]

Yeah, they don’t do a good job of describing their system. I think you’re right. Generally you want an incompressible, non-newtonian, visco-elastic fluid for the dampener, which air is not so good at, but hydraulic fluids of certain compositions are great at. I had assumed they were working some interesting magic and had not fully dug into the details. My apologies.

No worries, I just have very strong feelings about air suspension

There are multichamber air springs/struts but they are quite rare on passenger vehicles. I think Porsche and Hyundai have offered them in the past. They may mellow or firm up the ride a bit but the compression and rebound are still handled by a hydraulic system of some kind.

But typically, repairs are cheap on air systems, at least in my experience. I was a mechanic in the Air Force and turned wrenches in the private sector for about 7 years before moving over to IT. Almost every air suspension failure I saw was due to someone ****ing with the leveling system and overextending the bags. The rest were either dry rotted from age or struck by large debris.

The systems are honestly very simple and robust. I trust them and have put them through a lot of abuse in the past like hauling 5 tons of shingles with my Land Cruiser and getting airborne on forest roads (not at the same time though).

The ability to drop your ride height to enter parking garages, make loading groceries a breeze, and they smooth the ride out in a way that coil springs cant.. make them mandatory on all my vehicles now. My wife wont let me slam her Honda Odyssey on bags tho

 

[Chavannigans]

Most full-sized BEV SUVs and trucks will ride quite differently from a 4Runner, Bronco, or Jeep.
The center of gravity is much lower (the main single mass is between the wheels, not above the front wheels). Roll isn’t nearly as dramatic in the Lightning as compared with similar full-sized pickups. The solid axle and Harvester in the Scouts will bring back some of that behavior, but the battery will still dominate the center of gravity.

Damn that’s a great point. Another reason to go full BEV

It would be amazing offroad with that low COG too.

 

[TreeKiller]

No worries, I just have very strong feelings about air suspension

There are multichamber air springs/struts but they are quite rare on passenger vehicles. I think Porsche and Hyundai have offered them in the past. They may mellow or firm up the ride a bit but the compression and rebound are still handled by a hydraulic system of some kind.

But typically, repairs are cheap on air systems, at least in my experience. I was a mechanic in the Air Force and turned wrenches in the private sector for about 7 years before moving over to IT. Almost every air suspension failure I saw was due to someone ****ing with the leveling system and overextending the bags. The rest were either dry rotted from age or struck by large debris.

The systems are honestly very simple and robust. I trust them and have put them through a lot of abuse in the past like hauling 5 tons of shingles with my Land Cruiser and getting airborne on forest roads (not at the same time though).

The ability to drop your ride height to enter parking garages, make loading groceries a breeze, and they smooth the ride out in a way that coil springs cant.. make them mandatory on all my vehicles now. My wife wont let me slam her Honda Odyssey on bags tho

Don't get me wrong. Talking about my repair experiences with both of my air suspension vehicles is not intended to deter, it was just an account of what it cost to work on at the dealer. And I've said this before but one "feature" of the air suspension in my Jeep, which was not marketed as a benefit of the system, is the ability to super easily connect to a trailer, since you can simply lower the vehicle to the lowest setting, back up to the trailer and then raise the suspension until the hitch couples.

For anyone who's going to tow, it really simplifies the process of trailer coupling / decoupling.

And despite issues with both of the air systems in my vehicles, I would definitely opt for air again.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I would opt for air suspension if its cost wasn’t too high. Heck, with a modern-day pickup (including the Terra), just being able to drop the bed height by a few inches from “normal” would be great.

 

[6-ScoutFamily]

Air suspension might be a big need if one opts for a pizza cutter tire on a taller, aero-type wheel/cover combo.

 

[dreamweaver]

Air suspension might be a big need if one opts for a pizza cutter tire on a taller, aero-type wheel/cover combo.

Make it as slippery as possible and a cool look.

 

[SeaGeo]

It depends if you have any reasonable expectation that you'll need a wheelchair in your future. Airbags with a kneel mode have been found to be incredibly helpful to people who need a wheelchair for mobility but not necessarily for riding/driving in the vehicle.

Yeah, I need to be able fit height-wise into parking garages. Almost always doable with the R1T, but I couldn't fit into the garage at my work with a base defender recently.

 

[SeaGeo]

This may sound crazy, but that’s not nearly as bad as I expected. High end off road coil overs or shock/spring combos (Fox, King, etc.) are about in that 5-6k price range. If that really is a good ballpark I might not mind an air suspension as much.

I still think the offroad package should be steel rather than air, but that kind of negates my replacement cost worries if something goes out on air.

Personally I would generally prefer the option for both. The ability for the vehicle to adapt with changing ride height (and in the R1T's case, roll stiffness) has been great for me offroad. Being able to have it level the vehicle is a very nice feature camping too. Ironically going to a solid axle and the potential for a traditional suspension is one of the few things that gives me pause when thinking about switching from an R1T to the Traveler.

 

[strider]

It would be nice if they did test drives like Ineos or Rivian does. They have test drive vehicles and you drive those. We need multiple with different options that we can drive and then we can place our orders based on what we like.

This is the double-edged sword of being an early adopter. They can't have test drives until the vehicles exist. We were in the same boat with the Tesla Model S back in 2012. They had an event at the factory where we got to go on a tour and test drive the release candidate vehicles, but they did not have all of hte models/options available so it was a bit blind. Hopefully Scout will have a similar event and/or go ont he road like they are with the prototypes.

But be aware they may ask us to configure before they are finalized but you can always wait and let folks move ahead of you in line until you are sure. Having done this multiple times now, there will be a frenzy when production begins. People will be posting on here, wailing about how they think they were skipped or they configured before so and so and they are getting their truck first, and on and on. Scout will batch production based on configurations to minimize changes on the line and they will likely batch shipments based on location. In Tesla's case, it was (and still is) all about the quarterly numbers. So they would ship East Coast cars in the early part of the quarter (to allow for cross country transit time) and then move West as the quarter developed, with Bay Area deliveries happening the last few days/weeks of the quarter as they could roll it off the line and deliver it immediately.

So try not to get sucked into the frenzy. A few months of delay will be minor compared to making an ordering mistake. Make sure that you are getting exactly what you want and then enjoy it for years.

 

[pwrofgrayskull]

This is the double-edged sword of being an early adopter. They can't have test drives until the vehicles exist. We were in the same boat with the Tesla Model S back in 2012. They had an event at the factory where we got to go on a tour and test drive the release candidate vehicles, but they did not have all of hte models/options available so it was a bit blind. Hopefully Scout will have a similar event and/or go ont he road like they are with the prototypes.

But be aware they may ask us to configure before they are finalized but you can always wait and let folks move ahead of you in line until you are sure. Having done this multiple times now, there will be a frenzy when production begins. People will be posting on here, wailing about how they think they were skipped or they configured before so and so and they are getting their truck first, and on and on. Scout will batch production based on configurations to minimize changes on the line and they will likely batch shipments based on location. In Tesla's case, it was (and still is) all about the quarterly numbers. So they would ship East Coast cars in the early part of the quarter (to allow for cross country transit time) and then move West as the quarter developed, with Bay Area deliveries happening the last few days/weeks of the quarter as they could roll it off the line and deliver it immediately.

So try not to get sucked into the frenzy. A few months of delay will be minor compared to making an ordering mistake. Make sure that you are getting exactly what you want and then enjoy it for years.

Thank you for this information! I’ve never reserved a vehicle before. Heck, I’ve never even configured and ordered a vehicle before. Thanks for sharing your experience, very helpful.

 

[Mousehunter]

I have avoided air suspension in the past - but mostly because it simply was not on the vehicles I was interested in. I could see it being useful for dealing with different loads, and how it might be helpful for dealing with different terrain - although mostly because of loads as well (my F250 is great on road, but I can bounce cargo out of the bed off road - it is still for loads, and that is not fun at any speed off road).

Hooking up a trailer would probably be the last of my concerns. Sure, it could be convenient - but few of my trailers take more than 5 minutes to hook up. I spend as much time with chains and wires as the jack. On light trailers - I just pick them up. On several of my heavy trailers I have electric or hydraulic jacks (and honestly the Scout is not towing any of them anyway).