Key Fob question

[J Alynn]

As a current EV owner I agree whole heartedly that there is no need for a start button at all. In fact, the Hummer EV had a start button initially and it was one of the reasons I bought a Rivian instead. Interestingly, I have experience the other side of the coin, and the unique experience of going backwards.

I am currently in a rental right now (ICE unfortunately), and I have had a tough time adjusting to it. I have gotten out of the vehicle and left it on for an hour or so, I have attempted to get out of the car without putting it in park, (FYI Rivian and Tesla will automatically put the vehicle in park when the driver door is opened when stopped). Lastly, the car has a "welcome sequence" when you get in it a lot like most cars and EV's nowadays, and of course there has been many times I have gotten in car, put my foot on the brake pedal, attempted to turn the dial to get into gear and nothing. All this to say please NO START BUTTON

Regarding the key fob or card more annoyances appear. The feeling of a bulky key fob in your pocket is horrible IMO. I keep forgetting to grab the fob when I leave even though it's hanging right by the garage door lol. Another annoying thing is having to manually lock/unlock the vehicle by having to touch the handle. But probably the thing I currently miss the most, (spoiled brat I know lol) and why the phone key is the best solution IMO, is the fact that I can turn on and pre-condition the vehicle to be whatever temperature I want and even turn on the heated seats/steering etc prior to getting into it. Then effortlessly park, get out and walk away while the vehicle locks and powers down on its own.

End Rant lol

That’s why I like a start button. When a household has a BEV and an Ice things that you mentioned above happen. Having the start button creates continuity between users and helps minimize something like a car running for an hour. Especially with fuel costs skyrocketing

 

[Chaz26]

That’s why I like a start button. When a household has a BEV and an Ice things that you mentioned above happen. Having the start button creates continuity between users and helps minimize something like a car running for an hour. Especially with fuel costs skyrocketing

But at the same time if you have an EV with no start/stop button and an EV with a start/stop button it's also going to get frustrating, especially when there's no engine noise or anything to remind you it's still running, or forgetting to start the one with the button every time you get in and try to put it straight into gear.

 

[R1TVT]

That’s why I like a start button. When a household has a BEV and an Ice things that you mentioned above happen. Having the start button creates continuity between users and helps minimize something like a car running for an hour. Especially with fuel costs skyrocketing

1 data point. We have 2 ICE SUV's (one beater) and the R1T. This has never happened in my household.

I think once you own an EV without a start button that offers excellent SW configurations and key options, you quickly realize that there is really no need for one, and that it would be a "faux-extra step" to use a start button (once you've made a virtual "handshake" with the truck, with any key). Once you make a handshake and have access to the truck, there is nothing to "start" - the truck is awake and ready to drive.

For those getting the Harvester, I could see using the start button to activate the Harvester (like if you were boondocking and wanted to charge)

 

[cyure]

1 data point. We have 2 ICE SUV's (one beater) and the R1T. This has never happened in my household.

I think once you own an EV without a start button that offers excellent SW configurations and key options, you quickly realize that there is really no need for one, and that it would be a "faux-extra step" to use a start button (once you've made a virtual "handshake" with the truck, with any key). Once you make a handshake and have access to the truck, there is nothing to "start" - the truck is awake and ready to drive.

For those getting the Harvester, I could see using the start button to activate the Harvester (like if you were boondocking and wanted to charge)

Question, I always have to have one. Are they putting a start/stop in the EV because the EREV needs one and that way they only need to make one steering wheel?

 

[Chaz26]

Question, I always have to have one. Are they putting a start/stop in the EV because the EREV needs one and that way they only need to make one steering wheel?

I'd be surprised if the Harvester even needs one since it would be activated automatically based on whatever setting is chosen (and possibly an option to start it in the app as well). I'm sure if you were out camping and wanted to keep the battery at say 80% as long as possible that would just be set in the menu and it would come on at that point and turn off when completed without needing a start/stop button.

 

[Scout_Lookout]

That’s why I like a start button. When a household has a BEV and an Ice things that you mentioned above happen. Having the start button creates continuity between users and helps minimize something like a car running for an hour. Especially with fuel costs skyrocketing

I understand your side too, and I think as a bridge going from ICE to BEV this would be a very basic inclusion for newly adopted owners.

1 data point. We have 2 ICE SUV's (one beater) and the R1T. This has never happened in my household.

I think once you own an EV without a start button that offers excellent SW configurations and key options, you quickly realize that there is really no need for one, and that it would be a "faux-extra step" to use a start button (once you've made a virtual "handshake" with the truck, with any key). Once you make a handshake and have access to the truck, there is nothing to "start" - the truck is awake and ready to drive.

For those getting the Harvester, I could see using the start button to activate the Harvester (like if you were boondocking and wanted to charge)

However, I tend to lean more with R1TVT and think its nothing more than "faux-extra step" and just having the vehicle wake and go to sleep on its own just by getting near it or walking away from it simplifies EV adoption IMO.

With that being said, I do think it might make sense to have a start/stop button in the Harvester models for the reason mentioned above, but that could increase production costs having to make two different steering wheels. Perhaps the quick and easiest solution is to include the button for the Harvester but have a software bypass for the BEV's.

 

[R1TVT]

I'd be surprised if the Harvester even needs one since it would be activated automatically based on whatever setting is chosen (and possibly an option to start it in the app as well). I'm sure if you were out camping and wanted to keep the battery at say 80% as long as possible that would just be set in the menu and it would come on at that point and turn off when completed without needing a start/stop button.

Very true. But I could see the Harvester "audience" being more prone to wanting a tactile push button start, since you actually DO need to physically start the gen-set.

Of course Scout probably wants to minimize costs. One option for Pure BEV owners could be to disable the requirement to use the start button, even if it was there. This is an implementation question for the SW team though.

 

[LastDayScout]

My iX has a start and stop button and I agree it is completely unnecessary. I should be able to press the brake and put in drive and be off.

 

[RodorW]

Very true. But I could see the Harvester "audience" being more prone to wanting a tactile push button start, since you actually DO need to physically start the gen-set.

Of course Scout probably wants to minimize costs. One option for Pure BEV owners could be to disable the requirement to use the start button, even if it was there. This is an implementation question for the SW team though.

I’ve been mentioning a software bypass foe bit now, I just hope it’s been thought of by the design and engineering teams to actually happen or that they’ve seen it mentioned on feedback. There’s nothing more annoying than having to relearn a pointless step. It is harder to forget that a ICEV is running because it’s got an engine. It makes noise but the second EV is in park there is no noise. However, even though my Bolt has a push button start if it is not rolling and I open the door, it throws itself in park for safety reasons.

 

[6-ScoutFamily]

What age do you have to be to be a dinosaur? I don’t think I am but maybe I need to reclassify?

It’s more about attitude than chronological age.

 

[6-ScoutFamily]

Personally I like the start/stop button, but would probably prefer it on the dash. This is how our ‘16 Avalon is set up. As to the fob issue, I prefer that too. I like the idea of access via the phone to remote start, monitor charging etc., but I don’t want to depend on the phone to unlock and start the vehicle only.

 

[J Alynn]

It’s more about attitude than chronological age.

Aaah!!! Then I’m in great shape

 

[Scout_Lookout]

Personally I like the start/stop button, but would probably prefer it on the dash. This is how our ‘16 Avalon is set up. As to the fob issue, I prefer that too. I like the idea of access via the phone to remote start, monitor charging etc., but I don’t want to depend on the phone to unlock and start the vehicle only.

I mean if you really think about it, the phone has become the new key fob. It is something you have to carry, and something that has to have battery power to transmit a signal to connect to the vehicle. They both do the exact same thing and realistically people always have their phones with them and with portable chargers its easier than ever to keep it charged.

 

[J Alynn]

I mean if you really think about it, the phone has become the new key fob. It is something you have to carry, and something that has to have battery power to transmit a signal to connect to the vehicle. They both do the exact same thing and realistically people always have their phones with them and with portable chargers its easier than ever to keep it charged.

I’ve said before. I think phone is great-until it is t. And after issue with our Bronco I realized the phone/app can fail or get bugged and then locking and remote start become useless. That’s when a back up or primary fob is great. So until your phone fails as key it’s great. After-it sucks

 

[Scout_Lookout]

I’ve said before. I think phone is great-until it is t. And after issue with our Bronco I realized the phone/app can fail or get bugged and then locking and remote start become useless. That’s when a back up or primary fob is great. So until your phone fails as key it’s great. After-it sucks

This was the thing that kept me from buying either the Lightning or Hummer EV and buying a Rivian instead. Neither Ford or GM had anything close to what Rivian and Tesla offer for phone to vehicle controls. And after 3 years of Tesla ownership I couldn't fathom having a key fob or be without the ability to completely control my vehicle with my phone.

However, I agree with you on the ultra rare occasion it didn't work it was maddening, but that's why carrying the key card is an absolute must and literal get out of jail free card lol.

 

[Chaz26]

I’ve said before. I think phone is great-until it is t. And after issue with our Bronco I realized the phone/app can fail or get bugged and then locking and remote start become useless. That’s when a back up or primary fob is great. So until your phone fails as key it’s great. After-it sucks

I like a backup, that being said in 65,000 miles and over 3 years in my Tesla I've never had to use it but it's nice to have just in case something happens. I hope Scout have a similar card type access so it can just fit in my wallet like a credit card (or let you pick either card or key). I don't have to carry any actual keys on me now so I wouldn't want to have to start again with the Scout.

 

[R1TVT]

I’ve said before. I think phone is great-until it is t. And after issue with our Bronco I realized the phone/app can fail or get bugged and then locking and remote start become useless. That’s when a back up or primary fob is great. So until your phone fails as key it’s great. After-it sucks

Or when your key FOB dies - then that sucks too! ;-)

 

[CSpott]

What are the chances we can get our phones to act as the key fob?

Personally I hate carrying anything other than wallet and phone in my pockets.

I hope this is just a option that they'll make available and that they still provide actual fobs. I often go running on trails. I don't take my phone with me. I leave it in the car. Same for when I go hiking. I usually don't get cell service on the trails, anyway,. I'd rather not risk dropping or losing my phone when I'm out on the trails. I can easily stash the fob somewhere hidden on the outside of the vehicle, so I don't have to worry about losing the fob. Can't really stash a phone, nor would I want my phone to be out in the elements in the event it starts raining.

 

[R1TVT]

I hope this is just a option that they'll make available and that they still provide actual fobs. I often go running on trails. I don't take my phone with me. I leave it in the car. Same for when I go hiking. I usually don't get cell service on the trails, anyway,. I'd rather not risk dropping or losing my phone when I'm out on the trails. I can easily stash the fob somewhere hidden on the outside of the vehicle, so I don't have to worry about losing the fob. Can't really stash a phone, nor would I want my phone to be out in the elements in the event it starts raining.

Don't know a single manufacturer that ONLY issues PaaK.

 

[Gottesacker]

Personally would be a-ok with a physical key, lol. I currently use one. Wife's car has push-button with the ability to unlock by touching the handle, just not something I see as that huge of a benefit for me to really care either way. If it has a push-button, great, no, great, a key, great. Certainly not going to deter me from a purchase on something so trivial.