Will the Scout EREV be obsolete by the time it gets here in 2027/28?

[R1TVT]

Yes, I remember him saying that, and makes sense given how they look. I'm not rock crawling so no interest in massive wheels. My use is mixed with pavement, dirt, class IV, beach, soft sand, and lots of snow. I will have two sets of wheels and tires - one for winter and one for summer, and will be sticking with Nokian's for Winter. I think an 18 or 20 clutch wheel with the KO3's will be great in a 33, but would love to see the current Traveler wheel-set swapped onto the Terra for a look-see too.

 

[Gottesacker]

Yea, I'll be honest, my truck is pretty much a pavement queen.I'm just vain and like the look of A/Ts

 

[cyure]

Yea, I'll be honest, my truck is pretty much a pavement queen.I'm just vain and like the look of A/Ts

Same.

 

[J Alynn]

35s from Factory will be the max as I'm guessing fitting 37s takes some trimming to stock setup, but no metal work. Scout just wanted to show off and hint that you CAN do it if you want to. I'm planning on 35s for the Terra and would love to have an 18" wheel option!

I’m pretty sure they noted 37’s fit in the well but at full lock there might be just a smidge of modification but otherwise they’ve implied it will handle 37’s, just won’t be supplied by SM

 

[J Alynn]

Yea, I'll be honest, my truck is pretty much a pavement queen.I'm just vain and like the look of A/Ts

Same but even those that off-road-unless they trailer it they are still likely more pavement princess than off-roader unless they live oat the top of a mountain

 

[strider]

Same.

Me as well. I have always liked the Bridgestone Dueler A/T Revolver tires - been using them on my Jeeps for 20 years. Aggressive look but really good on-road manners and great in rain and snow. But it looks like they are killing that tire for the Ascent. Anyone used the Ascent? Anyone have a good reco for an aggressive look with good on-road manners (not too loud, not too squirrelly under acceleration/braking)?

 

[speedrye]

Same but even those that off-road-unless they trailer it they are still likely more pavement princess than off-roader unless they live oat the top of a mountain

I live in a suburban neighborhood, but I need low range AND mud tires to get out of my parking space at home because I'm too lazy to grade the area and too cheap to extend the driveway. I've tried all-terrains and can't leave if it's wet out.

Hopefully I'll be able to consolidate down to 2 vehicles soon so all can be garaged, but shortly after, the kid will be of driving age. I should probably just do the driveway now since concrete prices will only go up and up and up.

 

[Jasco]

So here's another thought, and honestly it's probably the basis of our next podcast considering the radical difference in range for new EVs like ix3, R2 and yes, the infamous Jeep Recon, all 3 of which take vastly difference engineering directions.

This 350 mile range for the BEV sure seems like the top end of what we should expect for the platform, and the reality for folks who want full capability is going to sting quite a bit. When you go to 35s, mechanical lockers front and rear, steel bumpers, tire carrier, etc.... What do you think that rating is actually going to look like vs an urban style setup with low profile street tires on 22s and none of the added weight and aero hits?

For those that want to really get out there and drive an adventure setup, what's the minimum range you gotta have to stay BEV vs switching over to Harvester?

This sounds like an excellent topic for a pod cast! So many questions remain to be answered regarding vehicle configurations, accessories etc. A couple of considerations. Rear lockers appear to be standard across future configs and hopefully, 33" tires will be available with 18's. Less rubber, less metal, less weight. I'd imagine some level of stock underbody protection will be provided as well and 11 inches of ground clearance even with the 33's (12" with 35's). Perhaps part of the conversation needs to focus on what you really need to acheive "Full capability". I've taken a flat fender jeep up some technical trails and my 2004 montero with 32's does a decent job as well. Neither are true rock crawlers though.

I agree with your point that fully kitted machines will likely drop well below the 350 advertised miles. How far remains to be seen. The other wildcard here is charging speed and I am hopeful on that front that we could see a healthy curve. We tend to talk at the extremes when requesting vehicle features. Towing is a great example. Off-roading/overlanding is another. EREV appears to be the perfect fit and perhaps it is for the percentage of people who tow heavy loads, 1000 miles regularly (though I have my concerns about a 1.4L generator meeting that demand); or for those who require 35s, full armor, sliders, a steel bumper and spend 10 days in the back country. In most cases though, BEV with a good charging curve, even at 270 miles of range, and available fast charging/overnight charging would work fantastically well for the almost all personal adventures (extended back country travel excluded). I'm honestly more conerned about vehicle weight and width when it comes to offroad use.

Rivian's range drops approximately 40 miles from their street setup to the 20" ATs. Scout's range drop will probably be similar. Steel bumper and winch? Well that's a completely different story for the 1% that go that route. EREV is the clear winner there and I'm glad it is an available option. But maybe focus on BEV's stengths as well? And perhaps some healthy perspective on the relative benefits of EREV. On a separate note, running a gas generator at a campsite does not seem ideal. The noise and emissions just seems wrong to me. I'd much prefer a small solar panel and solar generator. I'm looking forward to watching the episode!

 

[Hedges1]

running a gas generator at a campsite does not seem ideal. The noise and emissions just seems wrong to me. I'd much prefer a small solar panel and solar generator. I'm looking forward to watching the episode!

Agreed. I think the main benefit is being able to put the vehicle into a mode that ensures the battery is charged up prior to campsite arrival. I'm hoping that at some point these are the types of scenarios/outcomes that an AI agent can help alert and/or plan for automatically. So imagine you leave on a trip and tell the agent you're camping in Big Bend tonight, which is 500+ miles from DFW area. After several hundred miles of driving, a few fillups along your route, the system knows that you're nearing Big Bend and automatically alerts you to shift to that charging mode, and voila - you arrive at camp with a decent charge in the pack. Perhaps it even asks you up front how much you want in the pack and recommends the last fillup spot on your route.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Why would you need ai to accomplish that?!

That’s a few-line basic algorithm that can be programmed into the basic processor on the vehicle.

This increasing reliance on ai is just wild. Throw ai into this and suddenly you need a $500 part, six years of training data, sixty sensor inputs, and it’ll still get it wrong 95% of the time.

 

[Jasco]

Agreed. I think the main benefit is being able to put the vehicle into a mode that ensures the battery is charged up prior to campsite arrival. I'm hoping that at some point these are the types of scenarios/outcomes that an AI agent can help alert and/or plan for automatically. So imagine you leave on a trip and tell the agent you're camping in Big Bend tonight, which is 500+ miles from DFW area. After several hundred miles of driving, a few fillups along your route, the system knows that you're nearing Big Bend and automatically alerts you to shift to that charging mode, and voila - you arrive at camp with a decent charge in the pack. Perhaps it even asks you up front how much you want in the pack and recommends the last fillup spot on your route.

I hope the Scout engineers are paying attention! That would be a great feature but would take some integration into the navigation and battery management systems. Then again, battery conitioning is already doing something similar so the plumbing is already there I'd imagine.

 

[Jasco]

Why would you need ai to accomplish that?!

That’s a few-line basic algorithm that can be programmed into the basic processor on the vehicle.

This increasing reliance on ai is just wild. Throw ai into this and suddenly you need a $500 part, six years of training data, sixty sensor inputs, and it’ll still get it wrong 95% of the time.

I took AI to mean "algorithm" in this case. But I too am not a fan of AI as the answer to everything. It can make a great wrench but almost always fails when used as a solution. AI aside, @ROMR_Casey 's idea is solid. Here is an emdash for your amusement — (not AI generated).

 

[speedrye]

I took AI to mean "algorithm" in this case. But I too am not a fan of AI as the answer to everything. It can make a great wrench but almost always fails when used as a solution. AI aside, @ROMR_Casey 's idea is solid. Here is an emdash for your amusement — (not AI generated).

Did someone say AI wrench??

 

[Hedges1]

Why would you need ai to accomplish that?!

That’s a few-line basic algorithm that can be programmed into the basic processor on the vehicle.

This increasing reliance on ai is just wild. Throw ai into this and suddenly you need a $500 part, six years of training data, sixty sensor inputs, and it’ll still get it wrong 95% of the time.

It is true that cars today can tell you time to destination and estimate values like range remaining upon arrival and even update in real-time based on known conditions available to the car via the cloud - traffic, wx, etc., and it's not a great leap to program in some sort of alert and call to action. What I'm describing is different, but I'll didn't do a great job setting up the full ask.

AI agents in cars (just like on the phone) are starting to really leverage context and the ability to work across applications, and any manufacturer worth considering in the future has already spent a ton of time thinking through these capabilities and what it means for the driver. Let's talk about this use case more...

I'm going to jump in the car and set off to Big Bend. It's a LONG way to Big Bend, and depending on when I leave for the trip, it might be a two day deal. Maybe I left on Friday at 6pm and I'm staying half way tonight vs. powering through or maybe we'll just see how it goes. It would be great to tell the car, "we're setting off on our trip to Big Bend this weekend, just make sure I arrive at Panther Junction with 50% or more battery". Now the car's AI has context and can keep up with that task and outcome regardless of how I set my Nav (or don't) on the trip, no matter how many stops I make along the way, or divert to go explore something else.

I actually used to run into a similar problem all the dang time with my old Wrangler 4xe. I always wanted the battery full for camping, but if you got out of the car for any reason and shut it off - running into Walmart in the last town before camping - when you restarted it would default to use the energy in the battery and would deplete that sucker before I would remember to switch the mode to "Save Battery". Jeep couldn't set the vehicle to remember my previous mode, as this would've been a hit on their EPA calcs.

Last thought, there's a million other use cases for AI agents in vehicles. I love having Gemini available in the current ride, even though the direct car integration is still lacking in GM cars and it really only functions as a standalone assistant. As-is, being able to use natural language and Gemini's ability to understand context are big leaps forward. I'm excited that Scout is leveraging the Rivian electrical architecture and that the ability to develop and deploy these capabilities is already baked in. Can't wait to see what they come up with.

 

[6-ScoutFamily]

35s from Factory will be the max as I'm guessing fitting 37s takes some trimming to stock setup, but no metal work. Scout just wanted to show off and hint that you CAN do it if you want to. I'm planning on 35s for the Terra and would love to have an 18" wheel option!

I’ve been thinking seriously about the Continental Terrain Contact in 275/70 R18. I’ve seen good reviews and that size comes in at just over 33”. Since The Bumble Bee will be mostly a pavement princess, this might be the answer for me.

 

[jeremydunworth]

Will ai slop be obsolete before the Scout is available to buy is the real question.

Today one can go spend $75k on a vehicle with technology that is objectively terrible. The brakes can barely stop the vehicle. The subframe barely holds it together. The fuel evaporates as it’s being pumped into the combustion chamber. The visibility is terrible. The body panels barely line up. The steering is a manageable mess, at best. The seats are uncomfortable. The seat belts, if they even exist are arguably more dangerous than not having them. There are exactly zero safety features other than the previously-mentioned incapable brakes. It rattles; it coughs; it smokes. It’s loud. It’s smelly. Its NVH (noise, vibration, and harshness) is off the charts.

And yet, oh, what a feeling when you smash that accelerator to the floor and pop the clutch and the rear-end torque steer threatens to take the car away from you before you’ve even had a chance to hit full speed.

https://classics.autotrader.com/classic-cars-for-sale/ford-mustang-for-sale?year_min=1965&year_max=1969

Hey now, checking today some of those are listed at under $20k. Which is maybe low enough that an enterprising person could buy one, gut the gas parts and replace it with batteries, I don't care what chemistry, keep the buttons, install a retrosound radio and I would be perfectly happy driving that around town to get groceries and in the occasional parade.

I just found this thread and have not read all the posts, even reading the first page I had a few thoughts. For people who can afford $75k cars, there is another way to make EREV irrelevant. Just buy or lease a BEV and keep an old gas car for long road trips. I rarely require more than 140mi of range in one go and in 10 hours of 220V 24A charging I can get about 52kWh of charge, which is more than half the battery capacity of my Ioniq 5 which has a stated range of 269mi and the longest distance I regularly drive, uphill 6k ft elevation gain, takes just around 50% of the battery capacity. That is a long way of saying, unless you regularly drive over 200 miles a day, BEV can cover most of your needs. To put some perspective, 200mi / day x 5 days a week x 50 weeks a year is 50,000 miles per year, quite a bit higher than what I've averaged in the past of 12,000-15,000 miles a year, which is roughly under 60 miles per day.

It pains me to say this but I recently spent a week where when I had somewhere to drive I could either take the Ioniq 5 or the '73 Scout II. I drove the Scout once, to run the engine. The rest of the week, for short trips to the store etc, I took the Hyundai, it was just easier, quieter and cheaper. The gas vehicle is reserved for special trips these days.

This is why I think once you go EV, you never go back to driving gas cars the same way, they become special purpose vehicles only.

 

[jeremydunworth]

The AI bubble is a concern for me. When it crashes, I'll likely go into extra-conservative mode with the money, just in case, which means no Scout purchase.

what is the like emoji for insightful?

 

[jeremydunworth]

the "maintenance" that comes from an ICE vehicle, which all EV enthusiasts always refer to, makes me laugh....... what real maintenance is there? an oil change 2x a year?
But yet they never seem to mention that EV's are heavier vehicles and burn through rubber (especially on bigger vehicles) like crazy, costing almost 2 grand to replace.... vs $200 on 2 oil changes....

No hate here for either, just makes me laugh.

oil used to be every 3000 to 5000 miles, you can push it to 7000 but I'm pretty sure manufacturers don't recommend that
spark plugs
dead catalytic converter
transmission fluid
diff fluid
mass air flow sensor
exhaust value cracked
engine air filter
cabin air filter
brakes every other year if 30k for brakes. Tires every few years if 50k-60k miles for a set of tires.

This is just what I can remember off the top of my head. The least time and money overall for those was tires and cabin air filter, two that I suspect EVs also need. Also, the complaint that EVs burn tires faster is apparently because EVs accelerate faster, if you don't drive them like a track car, the tires last longer. And I've met people who take there gas cars to the track and they have to replace both the tires and brakes after each trip to the track.

I also have no hate for gas cars. I can see the future is electric though. The number one reason I went BEV instead of Hybrid was because I was tired of dealing with oil changes and other visits to either the dealer (yuck) or the local mechanics (very hit and miss on quality).

 

[jeremydunworth]

Yup-and as adults that extrapolates to many more items in life. Ie-hot coffee warning label, etc. I just saw a 5-gallon bucket with drowning warnings for small toddlers. And toddlers can’t read

dammit, hot coffee warning labels are because McDonald's couldn't be arsed to serve coffee in cups with reasonable insulation. At least that is my read on it.

Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[jeremydunworth]

So here's another thought, and honestly it's probably the basis of our next podcast considering the radical difference in range for new EVs like ix3, R2 and yes, the infamous Jeep Recon, all 3 of which take vastly difference engineering directions.

This 350 mile range for the BEV sure seems like the top end of what we should expect for the platform, and the reality for folks who want full capability is going to sting quite a bit. When you go to 35s, mechanical lockers front and rear, steel bumpers, tire carrier, etc.... What do you think that rating is actually going to look like vs an urban style setup with low profile street tires on 22s and none of the added weight and aero hits?

For those that want to really get out there and drive an adventure setup, what's the minimum range you gotta have to stay BEV vs switching over to Harvester?

200 miles oughta do it. If we are talking strict minimums.