Extra, Extra....Read All About It!

[R1TVT]

I really like Rivian but they've been on the rough end of a vehicle launch strategy for quite some time. Can't help but think what higher volumes, sooner could have done for their market share and stock price.

As a Rivian owner that went through the launch of their first trucks, enduring a Pandemic, labor & subsequent supply chain shortage, I have a very different perspective. I give the company a ton of credit for what they have endured, what they have built - particularly with the continued headwinds and a completely anti-environment / anti-EV administration. Their strategy included very early alignment with AMZN and an order for 100K delivery vans. I can tell you personally that inking that deal gave me a lot of confidence as an early reservation holder. Scout's alignment with Rivian also gives me confidence. There is no other company more perfectly suited to help Scout leapfrog into the truck and SUV market from a technology perspective. That was very smart, and allows Scout to stay more focussed on the "truck part", which we are all excited for.

I also separate the RIVN stock price from RIVIAN (the company). I would love to see their stock price improve, and I believe it will starting with the next earnings release if the R2 numbers hold and they make more SW and Fleet announcements. The climate and market (in general) has been very harsh in many ways, to to say the least since their IPO, but keep in mind how many EV OEM's have floundered, failed or imploded around them. In the past 5 years, 400 smaller EV brands and startups have gone bankrupt. That alone is going to create a lot of pressure and skepticism around any company from the financial markets, no matter how good the company is:

Here are some of those more "notables" implosions, and the list goes on and on around the globe:

• Lordstown Motors
• Proterra
• Electric Last Mile Solutions (ELMS),
• Volta Trucks
• Arrival
• Fisker
• Nikola
• Canoo
• Lion Electric (school bus maker)

The problem you are stating with "higher volumes" is not something that is a magic bullet for any new entrant. If the company is new, it needs to establish itself and its identity, develop trust with buyers, prove new technology and support every vehicle sold. The vehicle launch strategy being taken by Scout is not much different than Rivian's for that reason. Scale comes with staying power, establishing credibility and then building upon a foundation of success. Crawl, walk, run makes a ton of sense, and if you can do it with a compelling vehicle that will allow the brand to re-establish itself, you will at least see higher margins per vehicle sold when starting the fly-wheel.

The key to Scout's success will be how efficiently they can leverage the investments in their staff, the factory, the tech and all of their learnings from this launch to reach strong margins on each vehicle, and then expand. Seeing where Scout can go with a more basic, rugged, fleet-oriented truck will be super interesting. There are a lot of aging applications for this in our country right now where an EV makes way more sense than ICE.

 

[speedrye]

As a Rivian owner that went through the launch of their first trucks, enduring a Pandemic, labor & subsequent supply chain shortage, I have a very different perspective. I give the company a ton of credit for what they have endured, what they have built - particularly with the continued headwinds and a completely anti-environment / anti-EV administration. Their strategy included very early alignment with AMZN and an order for 100K delivery vans. I can tell you personally that inking that deal gave me a lot of confidence as an early reservation holder. Scout's alignment with Rivian also gives me confidence. There is no other company more perfectly suited to help Scout leapfrog into the truck and SUV market from a technology perspective. That was very smart, and allows Scout to stay more focussed on the "truck part", which we are all excited for.

I also separate the RIVN stock price from RIVIAN (the company). I would love to see their stock price improve, and I believe it will starting with the next earnings release if the R2 numbers hold and they make more SW and Fleet announcements. The climate and market (in general) has been very harsh in many ways, to to say the least since their IPO, but keep in mind how many EV OEM's have floundered, failed or imploded around them. In the past 5 years, 400 smaller EV brands and startups have gone bankrupt. That alone is going to create a lot of pressure and skepticism around any company from the financial markets, no matter how good the company is:

Here are some of those more "notables" implosions, and the list goes on and on around the globe:

• Lordstown Motors
• Proterra
• Electric Last Mile Solutions (ELMS),
• Volta Trucks
• Arrival
• Fisker
• Nikola
• Canoo
• Lion Electric (school bus maker)

The problem you are stating with "higher volumes" is not something that is a magic bullet for any new entrant. If the company is new, it needs to establish itself and its identity, develop trust with buyers, prove new technology and support every vehicle sold. The vehicle launch strategy being taken by Scout is not much different than Rivian's for that reason. Scale comes with staying power, establishing credibility and then building upon a foundation of success. Crawl, walk, run makes a ton of sense, and if you can do it with a compelling vehicle that will allow the brand to re-establish itself, you will at least see higher margins per vehicle sold when starting the fly-wheel.

The key to Scout's success will be how efficiently they can leverage the investments in their staff, the factory, the tech and all of their learnings from this launch to reach strong margins on each vehicle, and then expand. Seeing where Scout can go with a more basic, rugged, fleet-oriented truck will be super interesting. There are a lot of aging applications for this in our country right now where an EV makes way more sense than ICE.

Your "and support every vehicle sold" is VERY important, and will be a big factor in whether Scout can succeed and ramp up quickly or not. I'm very curious how they approach service early on, and long-term. Without partnering with an existing service provider, I'm worried.

I'm in a metro-ish area with 1.5m people nearby and the nearest Rivian service is still two hours away. Better than the six hours it was, but I'm definitely not going to be happy having to drive that far for service that mobile can't provide.

Out of curiosity, did you have pre-3/1 pricing on your Rivian?

 

[mbowman90]

Every state is different on what's allowed and what isn't.

Huh, so doing a bit of research, as a Maryland resident, I CAN buy a Rivian online from Rivian. What I can't do is buy a pre-owned Rivian from Rivian because Maryland prohibits manufacturers that have a Direct To Consumer model from holding a used-car dealer license. This applies to Tesla, Rivian, Lucid, etc. (Looks like there is a similar law in Nevada). What I find odd is that it also says I am prohibited from buying a preowned Rivian out-of-state as well as in-state. I'm not sure how that is enforced except maybe when you go to register it in Maryland.

 

[Scout_Lookout]

As a Rivian owner that went through the launch of their first trucks, enduring a Pandemic, labor & subsequent supply chain shortage, I have a very different perspective. I give the company a ton of credit for what they have endured, what they have built - particularly with the continued headwinds and a completely anti-environment / anti-EV administration. Their strategy included very early alignment with AMZN and an order for 100K delivery vans. I can tell you personally that inking that deal gave me a lot of confidence as an early reservation holder. Scout's alignment with Rivian also gives me confidence. There is no other company more perfectly suited to help Scout leapfrog into the truck and SUV market from a technology perspective. That was very smart, and allows Scout to stay more focussed on the "truck part", which we are all excited for.

I also separate the RIVN stock price from RIVIAN (the company). I would love to see their stock price improve, and I believe it will starting with the next earnings release if the R2 numbers hold and they make more SW and Fleet announcements. The climate and market (in general) has been very harsh in many ways, to to say the least since their IPO, but keep in mind how many EV OEM's have floundered, failed or imploded around them. In the past 5 years, 400 smaller EV brands and startups have gone bankrupt. That alone is going to create a lot of pressure and skepticism around any company from the financial markets, no matter how good the company is:

Here are some of those more "notables" implosions, and the list goes on and on around the globe:

• Lordstown Motors
• Proterra
• Electric Last Mile Solutions (ELMS),
• Volta Trucks
• Arrival
• Fisker
• Nikola
• Canoo
• Lion Electric (school bus maker)

The problem you are stating with "higher volumes" is not something that is a magic bullet for any new entrant. If the company is new, it needs to establish itself and its identity, develop trust with buyers, prove new technology and support every vehicle sold. The vehicle launch strategy being taken by Scout is not much different than Rivian's for that reason. Scale comes with staying power, establishing credibility and then building upon a foundation of success. Crawl, walk, run makes a ton of sense, and if you can do it with a compelling vehicle that will allow the brand to re-establish itself, you will at least see higher margins per vehicle sold when starting the fly-wheel.

The key to Scout's success will be how efficiently they can leverage the investments in their staff, the factory, the tech and all of their learnings from this launch to reach strong margins on each vehicle, and then expand. Seeing where Scout can go with a more basic, rugged, fleet-oriented truck will be super interesting. There are a lot of aging applications for this in our country right now where an EV makes way more sense than ICE.

You're spot on with the confidence in Scout knowing that Rivian is apart of it. In fact, even though it was pretty much love at first sight when I saw the Traveler concept, once I found out Rivian was going to be involved with the SW and UI, I knew without a doubt it was going to be my next vehicle. But on the adverse the JV with Rivian can bring up negatives as well as Rivian has a reputation (unfairly IMO) that they are unreliable, and thus could drive potential buyers away. Honestly I see it both ways, that the crawl, walk, run approach is smart but I also agree that seeing more of the vehicles in neighborhoods in a shorter amount of time wouldn't be a bad thing at all.

 

[speedrye]

Huh, so doing a bit of research, as a Maryland resident, I CAN buy a Rivian online from Rivian. What I can't do is buy a pre-owned Rivian from Rivian because Maryland prohibits manufacturers that have a Direct To Consumer model from holding a used-car dealer license. This applies to Tesla, Rivian, Lucid, etc. (Looks like there is a similar law in Nevada). What I find odd is that it also says I am prohibited from buying a preowned Rivian out-of-state as well as in-state. I'm not sure how that is enforced except maybe when you go to register it in Maryland.

That seems at-odds with the interstate commerce clause in the Constitution, giving the right to oversee that to the US Congress, not the states.

 

[cyure]

Huh, so doing a bit of research, as a Maryland resident, I CAN buy a Rivian online from Rivian. What I can't do is buy a pre-owned Rivian from Rivian because Maryland prohibits manufacturers that have a Direct To Consumer model from holding a used-car dealer license. This applies to Tesla, Rivian, Lucid, etc. (Looks like there is a similar law in Nevada). What I find odd is that it also says I am prohibited from buying a preowned Rivian out-of-state as well as in-state. I'm not sure how that is enforced except maybe when you go to register it in Maryland.

I know that you can’t lease a Rivian in every state. I had no idea you couldn’t buy a used one in every state.

 

[mbowman90]

I know that you can’t lease a Rivian in every state. I had no idea you couldn’t buy a used one in every state.

You can buy a pre-owned Rivian (and Tesla, Lucid) in Maryland, but NOT from Rivian. You have to buy it from an Edmunds, Carmax, etc. that has a used-car dealer license. Looks like Manufactures are denied these Used Car DLs in Maryland.

 

[cyure]

You can buy a pre-owned Rivian (and Tesla, Lucid) in Maryland, but NOT from Rivian. You have to buy it from an Edmunds, Carmax, etc. that has a used-car dealer license. Looks like Manufactures are denied these Used Car DLs in Maryland.

Ahhh, thanks.

 

[Broverlander]

Thanks for the clarification. Looks like I was off by a year in my post. My point still stands though. I really like Rivian but they've been on the rough end of a vehicle launch strategy for quite some time. Can't help but think what higher volumes, sooner could have done for their market share and stock price.

There shall be no discussion of Rivian's stock price until it gets back to the point I can sell it and not lose my rear end.

 

[R1TVT]

Your "and support every vehicle sold" is VERY important, and will be a big factor in whether Scout can succeed and ramp up quickly or not. I'm very curious how they approach service early on, and long-term. Without partnering with an existing service provider, I'm worried.

I'm in a metro-ish area with 1.5m people nearby and the nearest Rivian service is still two hours away. Better than the six hours it was, but I'm definitely not going to be happy having to drive that far for service that mobile can't provide.

Out of curiosity, did you have pre-3/1 pricing on your Rivian?

I guess Rivian and Scout set the playbook for this, so there is a way, and remote service is a very convenient thing (if it can be used, and if Scout has a remote service plan and program in place). I had a remote service visit at my house and it was a great experience. But I agree 100% with your sentiment.

What do you mean by pre-3/1 pricing? Do you mean Launch pricing? if so yes, I own an early build Launch Edition.

 

[R1TVT]

Honestly I see it both ways, that the crawl, walk, run approach is smart but I also agree that seeing more of the vehicles in neighborhoods in a shorter amount of time wouldn't be a bad thing at all.

Sure, but that assumes a lot of things - like high quality, high reliability, serviceability, etc... That is hard to deliver when new and trying to pump quantity over quality. That was why the initial "handshake from Rivian to the world" or however they described it was so important. Without it, you wind up with disgruntled initial owners, bad reviews and gawd forbid piss poor YouToober videos to go with all of it. LOL

 

[Broverlander]

I'm curious if Rivian faced any similar lawsuits; they were a party in a VWG joint venture. It's probably a looser relationship than the VWAG-Scout Motors one. I also wonder if SM splitting off from VWAG to be a separate entity and going public (I thought I had heard a rumor about this) prior to any sales would negate a law suit based on a no long existing fact.

I would think that if VWG completely divested SM and SM was no longer owned or influenced by VWG, SM would no longer have this alleged hurdle to DTC. I don't know how that would happen though. VWG has a whole lot of money tied up in SM and it's just not going to divest itself of SM and write that money off. Further, where's the money going to come from to fund ongoing operations? I think they'd have to do an IPO and that takes time.

 

[OleScout]

A new story posted featuring the Vintage Scout Race Program at the NORRA 500

Through The Storm And Looking Ahead: The Vintage Scout Race Program At The NORRA 500 – Scout Motors Stories

blog.scoutmotors.com

 

[Broverlander]

But do you have to buy a Rivian at the Service Center? Or are they meeting the law by providing a "Service Center (aka Dealer?)"

When I picked up my Rivian, it was at a Service Center. To the best of my knowledge, all buyers take delivery at the service center (unless you want to take delivery at the factory). I don't know if that's to get around DTC laws or not. I know initially Rivian would deliver your vehicle to you but I don't think they do that now (or they charge extra for it. I can't recall).

 

[cyure]

A new story posted featuring the Vintage Scout Race Program at the NORRA 500

Through The Storm And Looking Ahead: The Vintage Scout Race Program At The NORRA 500 – Scout Motors Stories

blog.scoutmotors.com

The Little Terra that Could!

 

[speedrye]

I guess Rivian and Scout set the playbook for this, so there is a way, and remote service is a very convenient thing (if it can be used, and if Scout has a remote service plan and program in place). I had a remote service visit at my house and it was a great experience. But I agree 100% with your sentiment.

What do you mean by pre-3/1 pricing? Do you mean Launch pricing? if so yes, I own an early build Launch Edition.

The earliest of us Rivian preorder holders got lucky when Rivian completely screwed up and announced pricing way too early. They honored that pricing for those preorders, up until a 3/1 (don't even remember what year now) deadline. I think it worked out to be a $20k discount on my quad-motor R1S preorder.

 

[Scout_Lookout]

When I picked up my Rivian, it was at a Service Center. To the best of my knowledge, all buyers take delivery at the service center (unless you want to take delivery at the factory). I don't know if that's to get around DTC laws or not. I know initially Rivian would deliver your vehicle to you but I don't think they do that now (or they charge extra for it. I can't recall).

Same, I picked mine up from a service center too, but I live in GA so now there are several showrooms, (including the one attached to their HQ downtown) and I think you can still only get deliveries from service centers. This makes sense of course because if there are any "adjustments" needed before taking delivery there are techs immediately available.

 

[Broverlander]

I've been going on about this for a bit now. For the average consumer, seeing more of a new brand on the street increases confidence in that brand. The basic logic of "if all of these other people are doing it, there must be a reason" goes a long ways towards furthering a brand. If someone looked into Rivian early on, saw the prices and discounted the brand, they're not reconsidering for years, until they start seeing a lot of R2s on the streets. I highly doubt Average Joe even knows the R2S is a different vehicle than the R1S when passing one, and I'm already seeing more R2s on the road than R1s.

There will always be some early-adopters with more money than sense, but that pool is notably smaller now than it once was. Tap that pool for the first month of production and make some profit, but be ready to have $60k models shipping out by month two. I wholeheartedly agree that they need to get Scouts on the streets, and as many as possible. Launch the new models hard and fast, get them onto every neighborhood street and the brand is much more likely to take off than trickling a few over-priced models out here and there.

I think this is different than legacy automakers where they already have an established name and consumer confidence. They've got a much quicker turnaround time from premium offering to more pedestrian versions, and even then, those often fail or sour buyers on a model. Watching Toyota launch their First Edition Land Cruiser, I noticed they sat on the lots, even without dealer markup, and were still sitting when the cheaper versions came out, only to be discounted in the end.

You're right, the R2s are starting to be everywhere. I had to go get service a couple of weeks ago (bad sensor. First problem I ever had, knock on wood) and I asked them how many R2s they were sending out the door and they told me 24 in the prior week. That's about 4-5 per day. And then when I left, there must have been 6-8 R2s lined up for people to take delivery that day. And that's just in the Minneapolis area, which I wouldn't classify as Rivian-heavy. There are so few here that I still waive at every one I drive by (and enjoy the heck out of it).

And you're right about people seeing cars on the road and then wanting one. Even now, when Rivian is more widely known than it was when I bought mine two years ago, people will still stop and ask me about it. Happens all the time and every time, I tell them how awesome they are and they would never regret the purchase. I'll do the same thing with my Scout and if they're anywhere close too the quality and joy to drive as a Rivian, once they get those first 25,000 to 50,000 in customers' hands, those 210,000 reservations are going to shoot through the roof.

 

[Broverlander]

You're spot on with the confidence in Scout knowing that Rivian is apart of it. In fact, even though it was pretty much love at first sight when I saw the Traveler concept, once I found out Rivian was going to be involved with the SW and UI, I knew without a doubt it was going to be my next vehicle. But on the adverse the JV with Rivian can bring up negatives as well as Rivian has a reputation (unfairly IMO) that they are unreliable, and thus could drive potential buyers away. Honestly I see it both ways, that the crawl, walk, run approach is smart but I also agree that seeing more of the vehicles in neighborhoods in a shorter amount of time wouldn't be a bad thing at all.

There are so many people on here who have the same experiences as I have had that it's wild to me.

This is exactly what happened to me. I had been eyeballing Rivian for some time before Scout's launch. I was literally waiting for the Scout reveal in October 2024 to decide what to do. When I saw the trucks at reveal, I immediately reserved one and purchased a Rivian as soon as they had my build to get me "by" until Scout hit the road. Now that I have a Rivian, I'm even more in on Scout because for whatever people might say about reliability of Rivian, they are an amazing vehicle to drive and their UI/UX it top notch. Seriously. Some of you know I flip my vehicles about every two to three years and by then, I'm itching to get rid of it. The only reason I'm itching now is because these Scouts look amazing and it's an opportunity I cannot pass up (the community here is a huge part of that!). I love my Rivian so much that I'm going to be sad to see it go. That's the first I can ever say of any vehicle I've had. If not for Scout, I might have kept the Rivian. Sigh ... let's be real here, I probably would have gotten a new Rivian.

 

[Scout_Lookout]

Same, same, and same. I love my Rivian too, but I very easily chase shiny objects so after a year and half ownership I'm eyeballing other vehicles lol! I am also not ashamed to say that even as excited as I am to get my Scout the moment I hear of a second Gen or new model I will almost undoubtedly be one of the first to reserve. FOMO...got a hold on me for sure, and my poor wife is eternally hopeful that I will grow out of it. Not bloody likely