Extra, Extra....Read All About It!

[Mousehunter]

My F250 can hit about 500 miles on a tank on a good day, till I strap a trailer behind it (then it is closer to 350). And honestly, I am a lot more picky when I am towing that trailer and have to fill up. It is a nightmare at some gas stations with 30' of trailer behind you.

With an EV, if you are starting at 350 miles in theory, get 260 real world, then a hair over 100 with a trailer - it is a bit different.

 

[Gottesacker]

My F250 can hit about 500 miles on a tank on a good day, till I strap a trailer behind it (then it is closer to 350). And honestly, I am a lot more picky when I am towing that trailer and have to fill up. It is a nightmare at some gas stations with 30' of trailer behind you.

With an EV, if you are starting at 350 miles in theory, get 260 real world, then a hair over 100 with a trailer - it is a bit different.

The overall range is what has always gotten me too. I was seriously looking at a Lightning at one point, but when real-world results were getting about 90 miles maxed out I realized I would be able to only make 3/4 of my round-trip in a day with the trailer I was towing. It was a TFL video specifically I remember watching that had me really second-guessing that. I'm still currently on the fence for Harvester/BEV, but it's hard to know for sure what kind of real-world EV mileage we're going to get. Until we can get closer to knowing for sure I'll continue to be on that fence for this exact reason.

 

[J Alynn]

This is a great point and as someone with a BEV at the moment, is a trap I find myself falling into . The real question though is what's the real world miles? My Rivian is supposed to go 330 but I never get anywhere close to that. I have to stop and charge on teh way to my in-law's lake cabin that's only about 250 miles from my house. For that reason, I really need 400 or 450 so I can drive the 250, which is only about 4 hours. If Scout's 350/500 is actual mileage, that's plenty. But when that's actually 250/400, that could be a problem for some, and would be for me with the BEV to and from the lake, which is partially why I've chosen the Harvester even though I want BEV. That plus I can get the Harvester first!

Not arguing but I question (generally-not you) how driving preferences affect this. We are pushing 4 months on the Lexus and my wife continues to get better range and that’s with to and from work as well as regional driving. Lexus is certainly somewhat more aerodynamic than a brick we lovingly call Scouts but just bugs me as a new to BEV ownership why such variables exist (rhetorical)

 

[J Alynn]

I throw this out just to throw it but I suspect (and I know there are plenty of outliers here on the forum) at least for the traveler, (and just my thoughts) the vehicle will have 1 primary demographics. At this size it will be for families with two kids going to sports and traveling and all the things families with kids do, and children’s bladders are the biggest hurdle, otherwise it is a very large vehicle for most folks who can get by with a standard sized 2-row SUV.
The other demographic will be all of us old folks who grew up and experienced scouts and going back up this thread, we can’t do more than 3-4 hours of driving without a break. Realistically very few of us really need an SUV this large with 2 rows but here we all are pining over the nostalgia-which is awesome, people buy cars based on emotion and if we did t, we’d be buying like gen 18 of the Model ‘T’ in custom ordered black. Sure the outliers have their wants and needs and this will work for them and the offroad crew but I suspect much of that crowd would be equally happy in their Jeeps and land cruisers and broncos.
End of day, SM has to appeal to the largest buying market at a price that majority can afford. And 600 miles isn’t really need for the majority. But again, this is that never ending debate.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I throw this out just to throw it but I suspect (and I know there are plenty of outliers here on the forum) at least for the traveler, (and just my thoughts) the vehicle will have 1 primary demographics. At this size it will be for families with two kids going to sports and traveling and all the things families with kids do, and children’s bladders are the biggest hurdle, otherwise it is a very large vehicle for most folks who can get by with a standard sized 2-row SUV.
The other demographic will be all of us old folks who grew up and experienced scouts and going back up this thread, we can’t do more than 3-4 hours of driving without a break. Realistically very few of us really need an SUV this large with 2 rows but here we all are pining over the nostalgia-which is awesome, people buy cars based on emotion and if we did t, we’d be buying like gen 18 of the Model ‘T’ in custom ordered black. Sure the outliers have their wants and needs and this will work for them and the offroad crew but I suspect much of that crowd would be equally happy in their Jeeps and land cruisers and broncos.
End of day, SM has to appeal to the largest buying market at a price that majority can afford. And 600 miles isn’t really need for the majority. But again, this is that never ending debate.

And more people than will ever, ever need to use it will buy a 10k towing capacity on the off chance that they might, someday, need to tow a mock-up of the Space Shuttle.

So even though few actual buyers will ever need the capabilities they claim they’ll need, they’ll still demand to be able to buy the bigger battery or the higher tow capacity.

I’m a prime example. I shouldn’t have traded in the Lightning for the Silverado. The bigger battery was a siren song that moved me into a worse vehicle for a higher price.

I hope that if Scout eventually bends to the “moar range” crowd in the BEV realm, that they also offer a reasonable 300-350 mile truck. I would love to go back to a 320 mile range in a truck that performs better in every other way.

 

[cyure]

And more people than will ever, ever need to use it will buy a 10k towing capacity on the off chance that they might, someday, need to tow a mock-up of the Space Shuttle.

So even though few actual buyers will ever need the capabilities they claim they’ll need, they’ll still demand to be able to buy the bigger battery or the higher tow capacity.

I’m a prime example. I shouldn’t have traded in the Lightning for the Silverado. The bigger battery was a siren song that moved me into a worse vehicle for a higher price.

I hope that if Scout eventually bends to the “moar range” crowd in the BEV realm, that they also offer a reasonable 300-350 mile truck. I would love to go back to a 320 mile range in a truck that performs better in every other way.

I’m hoping for an off road appearance package. So steel bumpers, I like not having to worry about bumper damage to a plastic bumper, tire carrier, aggressive wheel and tire package but I don’t need heavy duty towing. Heck I don’t need lockers. Don’t know when I would “lock” them. . But make my Scout look like I could lock them and keep up with any off-roader out there.

 

[J Alynn]

I know not everyone has FB but this Rivian ad is great for showing sizes

 

[Mousehunter]

10k lbs towing weight sounds great - but if you are like me, all my trailers that are anywhere near that are 5th wheel. I am not sure if there is an EV truck made that is designed for a 5th wheel hitch. I think all my bumper pulls max out at closer to 5k. Then if I really want to be specific - at least one of those trailers tends to be closer to 18k lbs anyway (max below CDL). I have a bunch of trailers - but just one bumper pull that is above 5k and below 10k. And honestly, it tows SO much better with my 3/4 ton than it ever did with my 1/2 ton.

 

[maynard]

10k lbs towing weight sounds great - but if you are like me, all my trailers that are anywhere near that are 5th wheel. I am not sure if there is an EV truck made that is designed for a 5th wheel hitch. I think all my bumper pulls max out at closer to 5k. Then if I really want to be specific - at least one of those trailers tends to be closer to 18k lbs anyway (max below CDL). I have a bunch of trailers - but just one bumper pull that is above 5k and below 10k. And honestly, it tows SO much better with my 3/4 ton than it ever did with my 1/2 ton.

My situation is the need to pull a ~ 5k lbs boat or a ~ 5.5k tag-a-long camper. And I really want to sell my expedition to get me from $60k to whatever my Scout will cost… not to mention that I don’t want to keep an extra vehicle registered and insured and sitting outside just for towing.

 

[speedrye]

My situation is the need to pull a ~ 5k lbs boat or a ~ 5.5k tag-a-long camper. And I really want to sell my expedition to get me from $60k to whatever my Scout will cost… not to mention that I don’t want to keep an extra vehicle registered and insured and sitting outside just for towing.

I don't need huge towing capacity since I'll mostly be towing my lawn mower, but that's still 5k lbs with the trailer, so I don't want to be maxing out the tow capacity. Occasionally I'll pick up a vehicle I find with a car dolly, and that also puts me around or sometimes just above that 5k. That extra desired buffer is more about today's litigious society than the official number. Give me a 6k to 7k rated capacity and I'm more than happy.

 

[Broverlander]

Not arguing but I question (generally-not you) how driving preferences affect this. We are pushing 4 months on the Lexus and my wife continues to get better range and that’s with to and from work as well as regional driving. Lexus is certainly somewhat more aerodynamic than a brick we lovingly call Scouts but just bugs me as a new to BEV ownership why such variables exist (rhetorical)

This is another excellent point. I think there are so many factors that go into it for BEVs and their range. Weather, wind, and city/highway are big factors that I've seen affect my range. For me, most of my commute is highway, and that really affects my range. My efficiency in the city goes up more than 1 mile/kwh vs. on the highway. So if I drove 100 miles in the city, I'd use a lot less battery than if I drove 100 miles at 75 mph on the highway.

 

[cyure]

This is another excellent point. I think there are so many factors that go into it for BEVs and their range. Weather, wind, and city/highway are big factors that I've seen affect my range. For me, most of my commute is highway, and that really affects my range. My efficiency in the city goes up more than 1 mile/kwh vs. on the highway. So if I drove 100 miles in the city, I'd use a lot less battery than if I drove 100 miles at 75 mph on the highway.

That’s good to know. The majority of my driving is city driving.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Another thing that people asking for extra large battery don’t fully understand, I think, is that the extra mass reduces efficiency for local driving A LOT.

In our already-massive Lightning, hitting 3 miles/kWh was easy when driving around town. In our Silverado, a 2,000 pound heavier vehicle, I’m lucky if I can get 2.8 miles/kWh.

So, yeah, I can go 400-500 miles on the highway with the Silverado, 100-200 miles farther than the Lightning, but that’s wasted for almost all driving because I almost never even drive as far as the Lightning could go before stopping. I ended up with a vehicle that’s good at ONE thing instead of a vehicle that’s good at many things.

In our Mustang, we can easily get 4+ miles/kWh around town and 3.5-3.7 miles/kWh on the highway. With a 92 kWh battery size, that’s ~400 miles around town.

Of course, the long range around town has little actual impact on us other than reducing costs a little bit. But since we pay $0.14/kWh for electricity when we mess up and charge at peak times, it’s such a minor change in cost anyway.

 

[Gottesacker]

10k lbs towing weight sounds great - but if you are like me, all my trailers that are anywhere near that are 5th wheel. I am not sure if there is an EV truck made that is designed for a 5th wheel hitch. I think all my bumper pulls max out at closer to 5k. Then if I really want to be specific - at least one of those trailers tends to be closer to 18k lbs anyway (max below CDL). I have a bunch of trailers - but just one bumper pull that is above 5k and below 10k. And honestly, it tows SO much better with my 3/4 ton than it ever did with my 1/2 ton.

Personally I'm more keen on that 10k number so that when I tow a 7k trailer it's not maxed out. I wouldn't want to max it out.

 

[J Alynn]

Another thing that people asking for extra large battery don’t fully understand, I think, is that the extra mass reduces efficiency for local driving A LOT.

In our already-massive Lightning, hitting 3 miles/kWh was easy when driving around town. In our Silverado, a 2,000 pound heavier vehicle, I’m lucky if I can get 2.8 miles/kWh.

So, yeah, I can go 400-500 miles on the highway with the Silverado, 100-200 miles farther than the Lightning, but that’s wasted for almost all driving because I almost never even drive as far as the Lightning could go before stopping. I ended up with a vehicle that’s good at ONE thing instead of a vehicle that’s good at many things.

In our Mustang, we can easily get 4+ miles/kWh around town and 3.5-3.7 miles/kWh on the highway. With a 92 kWh battery size, that’s ~400 miles around town.

Of course, the long range around town has little actual impact on us other than reducing costs a little bit. But since we pay $0.14/kWh for electricity when we mess up and charge at peak times, it’s such a minor change in cost anyway.

Will be interesting to see final numbers then compare to buyer’s real world use scenarios

 

[Mousehunter]

If I got 10k worth of towing capacity, I could tow my Airstream - but range coupled with lack of high speed charging would still make my F250 more convenient. I honestly doubt I will tow much over 3k with my scout (which is where my light boats or lawnmower trailer hit).