Paddle Shifters For Adjusting Regen

[Variable430]

Currently have an EQS and have zero love for one pedal driving. The EQS has paddle shifters to adjust the level of brake regen manually and on the fly - effectively it serves as a synthetic down shift and provides a much more interactive driving experience. I believe the Ioniq has this as well. Please strongly consider adopting this technology and it should include the ability to completely disengage regeneration as one of the modes.

 

[cyure]

Some would argue the EREV is the same thing but if it helps transition buyers and costs very little but offer some variations in configurations then it may open up buyers. I’ve been using paddle shifters for over 9 years in every car we’ve had and I find them very helpful. Can/will the car do it better automatically-probably but I like being engaged. If it’s simply a “physical switch” then great. If, like the 5N then that’s even better. IMHO

That 5N looks like so much fun. Not to own but to drive once.

 

[R1TVT]

Try towing down the Panamint Grade into Death Valley or or any of the other steep curvy grades in the west. I’m not saying everyone needs this, but some of us do and our lives depend on it.

Regen doesn't care if it is adjusted from a pedal, from a paddle or changed in a setting, so arguing that your life somehow depends on having your regen adjustment on a paddle when trailering downhill makes no sense - particularly if the SW offers a tow mode and regen adjustments.

 

[AlanL]

Regen doesn't care if it is adjusted from a pedal, from a paddle or changed in a setting, so arguing that your life somehow depends on having your regen adjustment on a paddle when trailering downhill makes no sense - particularly if the SW offers a tow mode and regen adjustments.

There are two aspects that do matter and yes that my life can depend on. One is being able to control speed on a straight section according to the grade, general curvyness and road conditions in the same manner as manually shifting the transmission of an ICE vehicle while keeping both hands on the wheel and attention on the road. It is not a set it and forget it thing, it gets tweaked as the grade gets more or less steep along the way. Using the brake pedal does not work, wait for point two. Using a setting of some sort won’t work either. Paddle shifters are particularly good for this, they are right at my fingertips.

The second aspect is only using the friction brakes when intended, for which the brake pedal is perfect. We often find ourselves going down a straight stretch at 45-ish and coming to a 25 mph or slower corner and need to use the friction brakes to make it. People do die from overheating the friction brakes down steep curvy grades.

Some of the HD diesel pickups to a good job of engaging engine braking to maintain a speed if you slow down with friction brakes. But they still have the ability to manually downshift if the truck gets it wrong. Scout could conceivably do something similar on the automatic aspect when in tow mode. But where my life matters I want a manual backup.

Could it be something else on the steering wheel besides paddle shifters? The thumb wheels might be ok I suppose. But for me the paddle shifters are at my fingertips and the thumb wheels are not right under my thumbs. And using the thumb wheels would mean taking away whatever function they already had at that moment.

I’m not talking about a balance between regen and friction. I am talking about two totally different manners of controlling speed that need to be used separately and able to be under the full control of the driver. One, regen, can be used all the way down with no ill effects, yes I am responsible for having enough battery space for the regen. But increasing regen might not work quickly enough when approaching a corner. The other, friction brakes, works quickly but is easily subject to overheating and failure.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I just want to get in and drive and this is making things sound more complicated than they need to be.

There’s a lot of noise in this thread. Any good implementation of the paddles would make them irrelevant except for the people who want to use them. For example, a lot of vehicles with automatics today have top-gear-limiting paddles or tap-"shifters" to allow people to feel like they’re getting more “sport” out of the vehicle. Most people don’t even know they exist, much less use them. If implemented properly, they won’t be necessary for most people’s ordinary driving.

If implemented poorly, they would be a detriment to the driving experience for most owners. I would be surprised if this is something Scout dropped the ball on.

For me the issue is how much extra cost would they add to the vehicle. If they’re part of a “sport” trim, they might not add too much to the cost, but there’s always extra cost in R&D for any extra feature. If they’re going to implement some kind of user-adjustable regen modes anyway, then programming paddles to control those will be minimal. If they have to go through the entire programming exercise and weren’t going to do so, then the cost could be a lot more than I would want.

 

[AlanL]

Any good implementation of the paddles would make them irrelevant except for the people who want to use them.

Agreed. Trust Scout cyure to make it easy for you.

 

[cyure]

Agreed. Trust Scout cyure to make it easy for you.

Oh I have faith in them. I’m not even worried Ridiculously excited but not worried.

 

[J Alynn]

There are two aspects that do matter and yes that my life can depend on. One is being able to control speed on a straight section according to the grade, general curvyness and road conditions in the same manner as manually shifting the transmission of an ICE vehicle while keeping both hands on the wheel and attention on the road. It is not a set it and forget it thing, it gets tweaked as the grade gets more or less steep along the way. Using the brake pedal does not work, wait for point two. Using a setting of some sort won’t work either. Paddle shifters are particularly good for this, they are right at my fingertips.

The second aspect is only using the friction brakes when intended, for which the brake pedal is perfect. We often find ourselves going down a straight stretch at 45-ish and coming to a 25 mph or slower corner and need to use the friction brakes to make it. People do die from overheating the friction brakes down steep curvy grades.

Some of the HD diesel pickups to a good job of engaging engine braking to maintain a speed if you slow down with friction brakes. But they still have the ability to manually downshift if the truck gets it wrong. Scout could conceivably do something similar on the automatic aspect when in tow mode. But where my life matters I want a manual backup.

Could it be something else on the steering wheel besides paddle shifters? The thumb wheels might be ok I suppose. But for me the paddle shifters are at my fingertips and the thumb wheels are not right under my thumbs. And using the thumb wheels would mean taking away whatever function they already had at that moment.

I’m not talking about a balance between regen and friction. I am talking about two totally different manners of controlling speed that need to be used separately and able to be under the full control of the driver. One, regen, can be used all the way down with no ill effects, yes I am responsible for having enough battery space for the regen. But increasing regen might not work quickly enough when approaching a corner. The other, friction brakes, works quickly but is easily subject to overheating and failure.

I liken that to growing up with a legit E-brake. You always knew if something happened to your brakes you could at least pump the e-brake to slow you down. Especially failed brakes on a steep descent. At least that’s how I think about it

 

[Cranky Canuck]

Another way to think about this in terms of the specific need for Scout to add paddles and more HW is "how often will you be adjusting your regen settings?"

Personally, I never really change my regen settings UNLESS I suddenly need less regen due to snow conditions. In that case, I just switch into Snow mode (which automatically takes care of this, reduces pedal sensitivity and reduces regen). I realize I'm not driving like everyone else, but I am driving in an electric truck, and regen is more like "set it and forget" for me anyway.

I adjust my regen setting every single time I'm in the car. It's not a constant adjustment or anything but sometimes I don't want regen (like when I hop on to the highway for a bit) and other times I want regen to be just a little bit more aggressive. It depends on what I'm doing but personally I love having the choice and ability to customize the 'feel' of the car. I suspect that's because it's not intuitive or easy to change your regen on the fly. I bet that if your Rivian had a similar setup to what Hyundai-Kia have done you'd feel the same way.

 

[Cranky Canuck]

I just want to get in and drive and this is making things sound more complicated than they need to be.

It sounds more complicated but it really isn't. You can also just set and forget with paddles, but it's really nice to be able to adjust things for those of us that want to do that. I like having choice and not being shoehorned into a "Tesla/Rivian knows best - here's the only option" type of solution.

 

[R1TVT]

It sounds more complicated but it really isn't. You can also just set and forget with paddles, but it's really nice to be able to adjust things for those of us that want to do that. I like having choice and not being shoehorned into a "Tesla/Rivian knows best - here's the only option" type of solution.

That is not Rivian's approach (to be clear). You can adjust Regen settings, and take advantage of Regen settings that are "pre-set" within a specific drive mode (like Snow Mode or Tow Mode). You just don't do that on a "paddle".

 

[Cranky Canuck]

I completely understand what the paddles do. I am trying to figure out why they are useful. In the OPD mode, you can always have as much or as little regen as you want just based on where your left foot is. You want more? Lift off more. You want less? Lift off less. There is NO need for paddles or menus or anything. It "just works."

This whole idea of creep and paddles for "downshifting" are all relics of the ICE way of doing things. These things were done not because they were the best human machine interface, but due to limitations of the ICE technology. We don't have gears anymore. The amount of "engine braking" (regen) is completely variable and effectively infinite, just adjust your foot. Why add more controls that just complicate everything?

I think the Ioniq 5N use of the paddles is perfectly ridiculous. Why replicate a terrible experience (herky-jerky shifting of gears) with software?

I get that those of you with paddles have found uses for them. My contention is that your lives could be much simpler if you just had everything on the right pedal. No thinking required.

A lot of people DO NOT like or want One Pedal Driving. I'm one of those people. From the public EV outreach I've been doing for years I can tell you most people who are new to EVs also don't like OPD. It's weird and makes driving uncomfortable until you get the hang of it. If Scout is trying to appeal to the broadest market possible they'd be wise to have OPD as an option you can engage but off by default. For people for whom a Scout will be their first EV it would be best to make it feel as familiar as possible to a 'normal' vehicle, that means OPD off be default.

Should it be an option for those who want it? Absolutely. That's where something like paddles come in, so you can turn it on easily if you want to. Personally I do not want OPD and I hate the way Tesla has implemented it. A lot of people who are new to EVs find driving a Tesla to be too weird and they much prefer a more conventional approach like other brands have implemented. (I do a lot of EV outreach and test drives with people in all kinds of EVs).

Having to modulate your right foot all the time like you too with OPD just to try and drive smoothly is annoying and it always feels to me like the vehicle is eager to slow down. Plus, passengers tend to not like it unless they're used to it. It's also less efficient on the highway. Can you master OPD, of course, it's not that hard and doesn't take long to get the hang of. But I still don't like driving with it on.

You can also absolutely do what paddles do using just software on the screen but that's much less intuitive and far less convenient. I want the ability to adjust the type and strength of the regen when I want to and the best way I've seen to do that so far is having two paddles on the steering wheel, one for more regen and one for less.

It's something I use daily and something my wife never touches and that's fine. Choice is good. I don't see why this is controversial. I've been driving EVs for almost a decade now and OPD is annoying at best. It would honestly be a dealbreaker for me if OPD was the only regen mode Scout offered. I'd buy a Kia EV 9 instead and upgrade the suspension and tires to be more off-roady if that were the case (or wait for a more off-road focused version of the EV9 which is no doubt on the way).

 

[R1TVT]

I could absolutely be in the minority but I disagree with this.

I love driving one-pedal in the Rivian. I hardly ever touch the brake pedal. Took me two seconds to get used to it... Maybe I am good at it b/c I have a good understanding of how the truck works, I don't know.

Everyone has a different perspective to bring. Maybe using a paddle would be "weird" for me , but I've never driven an EV with paddle Regen. I think we should all keep in mind that we all may have experienced different implementations.

All I know is that however regen is implemented by Scout, it will not be a deal-breaker for me personally. I'm sure I can get used to whatever is implemented. Why? B/C it took me 2 minutes to get used to it in the R1T.

Sounds like you want to have the ability to turn off regen entirely? Am I reading that right? I can see how turning something off quickly with a button, a knob, or a paddle could be useful.

 

[cyure]

It sounds more complicated but it really isn't. You can also just set and forget with paddles, but it's really nice to be able to adjust things for those of us that want to do that. I like having choice and not being shoehorned into a "Tesla/Rivian knows best - here's the only option" type of solution.

I’m sure it’s not as complicated as I am thinking. I’m just coming from a 12 year old Wrangler and I didn't even have a backup camera until 3 years ago when I added a crappy aftermarket one.

 

[Cranky Canuck]

I could absolutely be in the minority but I disagree with this.

I love driving one-pedal in the Rivian. I hardly ever touch the brake pedal. Took me two seconds to get used to it... Maybe I am good at it b/c I have a good understanding of how the truck works, I don't know.

Everyone has a different perspective to bring. Maybe using a paddle would be "weird" for me , but I've never driven an EV with paddle Regen. I think we should all keep in mind that we all may have experienced different implementations.

All I know is that however regen is implemented by Scout, it will not be a deal-breaker for me personally. I'm sure I can get used to whatever is implemented. Why? B/C it took me 2 minutes to get used to it in the R1T.

Sounds like you want to have the ability to turn off regen entirely? Am I reading that right? I can see how turning something off quickly with a button, a knob, or a paddle could be useful.

I mostly just want to be able to turn off one-pedal driving. It would also be nice to adjust how strong the regen feels because yes, sometimes it nice to not have regen and to just coast.

 

[R1TVT]

Got it - I get that. Thx