Brake pedal behavior: Preference?

[ForrestF1re]

I'm a fan of how the Mach-E has this (I have no idea how efficient, however) and that One-Pedal driving is a toggleable option. I first experienced it in a rented Tesla and it took me a few hours (and over 100+ miles) to get used to. My partner just got a Mach-E, and I was thrilled that it wasn't a requirement (She got to experience normal driving during a test drive) and then try out the One-Pedal.

What will be landed on? Who knows, but the option is great for both of us when we drive it.

 

[Cranky Canuck]

Not really sure if there's actually any point to this poll since friction brakes and regen are blended in all EVs. Regen braking is free with every electric motor. Friction brakes are necessary for low-speed braking (under around 10 km/hr) because regen loses effectiveness at low speed.
So all EVs will always have both means of slowing down available and it's almost always done through the use of the brake pedal. The real question is how well Scout will implement it. Will the blending of the two be obvious when they transition from one to another like it is in the Nissan Leaf (at least it was in MY Leaf anyway) or will it be smooth and transparent like how Hyundai did it in the Ioniq 5? Will it be default one-pedal like a Tesla (please no!) or will it be customizable with multiple levels and selectable with paddles on the steering wheel like how Hyundai does it?

Personally I hate one-pedal driving and never use it. I would be very happy if Scout just straight-up copied Hyundai where you can choose from 'no regen' to 'one-pedal' and everything in between. I have about five different levels of regen available to choose from including "auto-regen" where the vehicle dynamically adjusts how aggressive the regen is based on what's happening in front of the car. If there's no traffic it's a nice and gentle coast but if the car in front starts braking the regen ramps up to match. Give us choice and blend it so smoothly we can't even tell when the switchover to friction brakes happens as it always must do a low speed! (or during panic braking)

I'm happy to see no one has voted for the "no regen" option, that would just be foolish to! Imagine an EV that didn't take advantage of regen!? That would be a dealbraker right off the bat for me!

 

[TreeKiller]

I had a loaner MB EQS580 SUV for a while while last year my gasser was in the shop. It was an absolutely incredible vehicle. I played with every feature, tried every drive and braking mode.

What I liked the most was regen controlled by the brake pedal, even though it definitely took some getting used to a softer / less uniform / longer brake pedal feel than any of my other vehicles.

I also committed a day to one pedal driving and hated it. I could not get used to it and really disliked not being able to coast when going downhill.

 

[LastDayScout]

I had a loaner MB EQS580 SUV for a while while last year my gasser was in the shop. It was an absolutely incredible vehicle. I played with every feature, tried every drive and braking mode.

What I liked the most was regen controlled by the brake pedal, even though it definitely took some getting used to a softer / less uniform / longer brake pedal feel than any of my other vehicles.

I also committed a day to one pedal driving and hated it. I could not get used to it and really disliked not being able to coast when going downhill.

I like one pedal driving, my wife does not. Fortunately, the BMW iX lets you choose.

 

[oldgeeksguide]

Not really sure if there's actually any point to this poll since friction brakes and regen are blended in all EVs. Regen braking is free with every electric motor. Friction brakes are necessary for low-speed braking (under around 10 km/hr) because regen loses effectiveness at low speed.
So all EVs will always have both means of slowing down available and it's almost always done through the use of the brake pedal. The real question is how well Scout will implement it. Will the blending of the two be obvious when they transition from one to another like it is in the Nissan Leaf (at least it was in MY Leaf anyway) or will it be smooth and transparent like how Hyundai did it in the Ioniq 5? Will it be default one-pedal like a Tesla (please no!) or will it be customizable with multiple levels and selectable with paddles on the steering wheel like how Hyundai does it?

Personally I hate one-pedal driving and never use it. I would be very happy if Scout just straight-up copied Hyundai where you can choose from 'no regen' to 'one-pedal' and everything in between. I have about five different levels of regen available to choose from including "auto-regen" where the vehicle dynamically adjusts how aggressive the regen is based on what's happening in front of the car. If there's no traffic it's a nice and gentle coast but if the car in front starts braking the regen ramps up to match. Give us choice and blend it so smoothly we can't even tell when the switchover to friction brakes happens as it always must do a low speed! (or during panic braking)

I'm happy to see no one has voted for the "no regen" option, that would just be foolish to! Imagine an EV that didn't take advantage of regen!? That would be a dealbraker right off the bat for me!

I wholeheartedly agree, but sadly there are some EVs (including Tesla) that don’t have blended braking; where the brake pedal is purely friction braking. Technically, I suppose there’s still some “blending” because of regen triggered by having your foot off the gas, but the brake pedal is not used to control any regen. Doesn’t make sense to me either.

 

[Sisko99]

When I was daily-ing an EV, I got used to driving stop light to stop light with just the accelerator and the regen braking (never did like the fact that the brake lights came on when you lifted though!). Heavier braking required the normal brakes....and I would still hold the car in place with the brake pedal (I know...not really needed without creep, but still a good practice if for no other reason than to alert other drivers to the fact that you're stopped).

People will learn the car as they drive it....but make it easier for Non-EV owners to drive the things out of the box by making at least the brakes act like a gas car.

 

[OlyScout]

One pedal is great, but also not so great going into a non-one pedal vehicle and remembering how to "drive." That aside, it is so great to not have to spend more time cleaning the brake dust off the wheels when washing and honestly ever having to replace the brakes/pads. Have a '23 Model Y Performance and my driving setting is always "Sport" for max acceleration and "Standard" for more aggressive regen braking (Standard is highest option for regen currently). So max of both available and then you get used to it and feather as needed, but when you apply the brakes you are reminded that it has performance brakes.

 

[jlrichar]

I did a brief search, but apologies if this has already been covered somewhere else/sometime in the past.

For those coming from the 100% combustion engine side of things, you might be surprised to know that the behavior of the brake pedal of a battery electric vehicle, or EREV (the harvester option) is something that you can change.

One of the reasons that EV's are more efficient than combustion vehicles, is because instead of scrubbing off speed into friction when stopping, they prefer to regenerate electricity (basically, you're using your speed to turn the electric motors backwards, creating energy instead of expending it). And the strength of that regen can be change, as can its behavior.

You have a few basic options (which I've added as a poll):

• No regen braking.
  • Exactly the same behavior as a non-hybrid combustion vehicle. Least efficient/most brake wear.
• Regen behavior controlled by the brake pedal.
  • ie, light press of the brake pedal == light regen braking, firm press of the brake pedal == maximum regen braking, strong press of the brake pedal == max regen braking + friction brakes
• Regen behavior controlled by steering wheel mounted paddles (sort of like paddle shifters)
  • You raise/lower the regen by "shifting" between 'light, medium, strong" regen modes or something of the like.
• One Pedal driving
  • Regen braking is tied to accelerator pedal.
  • Lifting off the accelerator pedal applies increasing amounts of regen braking, allowing you to completely* control speed using one pedal
  • For any braking forces stronger than max regen, you need to use the brake pedal as you normally would

Personally, I have a strong preference towards having the braking pedal adjust regen strength, but curious what others think/are wanting.

I want to be able to coast/have very light regen when I lift off the accelerator, but as I press the brake pedal I want it to ramp up the regen (mimic-ing the feeling/behavior of normal friction brakes) until it hits max regen, and then after that engage the friction brakes. This way keeps the vehicle behavior consistent.

Why do I want this? Well,I find one pedal driving less smooth (as a passenger, I've not driven it myself), as the driver is constantly tipping in/lifting off the throttle pedal trying to keep/adjust speed in traffic. Also, if regen braking isn't strong enough with one pedal driving, you still have to engage the friction brakes. My worry there is that if I got used to the regen braking being "good enough" for most situations, that my reaction time/muscle memory would be reduced in panic braking situations.

Anyway, I thought this could be an interesting discussion. So... thoughts?

This is interesting. One caveat to think about with one pedal is when the brake light comes on. With the brake pedal controlling regen strength it’s simple to activate brake light when pedal is pressed just like all currently existing Scouts. With full one pedal driving, an algorithm needs to pick the proper time to turn on brake light. An EV with one pedal is more similar to an ICE with a manual transmission. Regen starts out sort of like engine braking with a manual with no brake light on, but going to full regen (no pressure on accelerator pedal) results in brake light going on. I think the best option is to let each owner decide between one pedal and brake regen strength with settings. Neither requires extra hw, so possible to have both options. I think it’s important to provide feedback to the driver when the brake lights come on though.

 

[R1TVT]

My implementation of Regen with the R1T accounts for "coasting" where you stop depressing the accelerator BUT you don't lift off the accelerator or choose to slowly lift off the accelerator (gradually slowing the vehicle, but with no brake light)... If I take my foot off the accelerator or lift off the accelerator more quickly, the brake light will come on... AND you can see it come on in the dash view of the vehicle. It is visible to you when the brake light is illuminated. A great feature.

 

[Harris005]

Curious with regen in towing mode. Can you take advantage of more regen when slowing with a trailer, before trailer brakes are activated? Thinking the trailer brake input can come after the regen is maxed out, but heavier braking is still needed on top of it.

Trailer braking helps save the trucks brake pads, but might not be as much of a need when gaining with regen.

 

[LastDayScout]

Curious with regen in towing mode. Can you take advantage of more regen when slowing with a trailer, before trailer brakes are activated? Thinking the trailer brake input can come after the regen is maxed out, but heavier braking is still needed on top of it.

Trailer braking helps save the trucks brake pads, but might not be as much of a need when gaining with regen.

I have personally never towed with an EV. But I would think regen would be fantastic for towing. Almost like how some diesels have engine brakes but even better. You can actually recoup energy!

 

[DennCkhristen]

Great discussion. We have nearly 50k on a Mach-E and like several other EV owners can say that one pedal is the natural way to operate an EV. I use it all of the time but my wife prefers it to mimic an ICE drivetrain. My experience is with the Ford and the way they’ve implemented it but it seems they are pretty similar with variations on the theme.

I like one pedal because most of the speed control function goes through the electric motors so using the long pedal to control that system becomes very natural with a little practice. I’d guess that Ford uses in 75% of the regen in one pedal and the remaining 25% regen and friction brakes can be added from the other pedal. Part of the fun in driving the Mustang is using the one pedal to do all of the work and only resorting to the brake pedal when either I miss judge or traffic doesn’t cooperate. I’ve never had a problem with that transition or moving to the Wrangler and using the ICE system the way it’s always been. After the learning curve it happens without thought. Yes the brake lights come on but it would be nice for them to display it like Rivian does.

Coasting in an EV is a chimera. The system is always doing something so there is no efficiencies to be gained trying to achieve zero energy while in motion. If you start thinking solely in terms of what speed and acceleration/deceleration you need it’s natural and efficient. More regen just makes it easier to control position in traffic without constantly shifting from one pedal to another, simple and effective.

I’ve only driven the Ford enough to have a feel for it but with one pedal off it feels like a very faux ICE car and annoys me like crazy. Why try and make it something it’s not? Of course YMMV. If EVs were our long experience and we were learning ICE driving most people would be asking why they have to keep shifting their feet back and forth all the time, what an annoyance!