Switching Harvester to All EV Model?

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Not sure if others have discussed this, but one thing that keeps popping up in my mind -

In 2028 battery technology could and likely will be very different than today. Thinking through this, would that make the Harvester option any less desirable, any less needed, etc. I personally love the idea of a generator to help during long road trips or remote areas that might give a little extra range anxiety. But I don't love the idea of complications, maintenance, recalls, weight add, etc. that would come out of including this option. I suppose as we get closer to making the final spec lock in, it would be a great to time assess the status of charge infrastructure in North America, charge rate over time, gasoline prices, etc.

I suppose I have plenty of time to think about this. :)
 
Not sure if others have discussed this, but one thing that keeps popping up in my mind -

In 2028 battery technology could and likely will be very different than today. Thinking through this, would that make the Harvester option any less desirable, any less needed, etc. I personally love the idea of a generator to help during long road trips or remote areas that might give a little extra range anxiety. But I don't love the idea of complications, maintenance, recalls, weight add, etc. that would come out of including this option. I suppose as we get closer to making the final spec lock in, it would be a great to time assess the status of charge infrastructure in North America, charge rate over time, gasoline prices, etc.

I suppose I have plenty of time to think about this. :)
Welcome to the community!

I am in the same boat. It has been quite a discussion among some of us deciding which way to go. Luckily we have some time to figure out which way to go and there’s some great people on here who have EVs who have been answering all out questions. And I have asked a lot of them. You can check out this thread.

https://community.scoutmotors.com/threads/we-own-evs-ask-us-anything.1309/

And also I asked a bunch of questions in this thread


There’s lots of info all over this forum. The search is very helpful and if you can’t find something just ask. People are very helpful here!

Welcome again!!
 
Not sure if others have discussed this, but one thing that keeps popping up in my mind -

In 2028 battery technology could and likely will be very different than today. Thinking through this, would that make the Harvester option any less desirable, any less needed, etc. I personally love the idea of a generator to help during long road trips or remote areas that might give a little extra range anxiety. But I don't love the idea of complications, maintenance, recalls, weight add, etc. that would come out of including this option. I suppose as we get closer to making the final spec lock in, it would be a great to time assess the status of charge infrastructure in North America, charge rate over time, gasoline prices, etc.

I suppose I have plenty of time to think about this. :)
The first generation of Scout will have NMC or LFP batteries or even an option for one or the other. (It’s possible Jamie may have said which chemistry they’re planning to use somewhere on this forum, but I could be wrong about this). There’s been a long discussion across this forum and the other forum, but they need to be designing and integrating today so they can be testing next year. Today there’s no such thing as a commercially-available battery for long-distance EVs that isn’t NMC or LFP (there’s not even one that’s realistically beyond the cell stage today, despite some recent press releases). Whether NMC or LFP meets your needs and desires or informs your thoughts about the Harvester will be fairly individual.
 
The first generation of Scout will have NMC or LFP batteries or even an option for one or the other. (It’s possible Jamie may have said which chemistry they’re planning to use somewhere on this forum, but I could be wrong about this). There’s been a long discussion across this forum and the other forum, but they need to be designing and integrating today so they can be testing next year. Today there’s no such thing as a commercially-available battery for long-distance EVs that isn’t NMC or LFP (there’s not even one that’s realistically beyond the cell stage today, despite some recent press releases). Whether NMC or LFP meets your needs and desires or informs your thoughts about the Harvester will be fairly individual.
Scout has said that the full BEV will have NMC and the Harvester model will use LFP chemistry.
 
I had a personal aha moment today.

Ive said range anxiety is a big concern for me. I am the type of person that will charge their phone before leaving the house if its below 50%... I travel with multiple battery banks. I also harass my wife about keeping her phone charged.

But today on the way home from the Boy Scouts ceremony I stopped to fill up my Lexus.

After I got in and looked at the fuel range gauge (that I always leave on) it said 310 miles to empty.

The EV model with 35"s will probably be close to that.

I never really sweat having enough range in my Lexus unless I was thinking about a BDR trip or something like that.
 
I had a personal aha moment today.

Ive said range anxiety is a big concern for me. I am the type of person that will charge their phone before leaving the house if its below 50%... I travel with multiple battery banks. I also harass my wife about keeping her phone charged.

But today on the way home from the Boy Scouts ceremony I stopped to fill up my Lexus.

After I got in and looked at the fuel range gauge (that I always leave on) it said 310 miles to empty.

The EV model with 35"s will probably be close to that.

I never really sweat having enough range in my Lexus unless I was thinking about a BDR trip or something like that.
Love that epiphany moment
 
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There very well may be limited introduction of new chemistries between now and 2028, but I seriously doubt it will be wide spread adoption. A few manufactures have said they will be making solid state batteries for cars this year, but even if they do - you have to assume it will be for test vehicles first. When it does go out to the wild, unless there is complete shift in manufacturing technology, it will end up being more expensive and reserved for very high end vehicles until the price can drop.

Just getting production started in 2027 will be a huge accomplishment for Scout. I certainly would not be holding my breath for them to pull it off with a battery that is not in commercial production yet. Not only do current solid state batteries need to be tested in vehicles first, cost efficient production lines need to be established. IF things go well, maybe significant adoption might be happening by mid 2030's, but at the same time, other promising tech might be making more cost efficient batteries that will be more common by then anyway.

I am still waiting for the flying cars they promised us by 1990. Those are getting closer too, maybe.
 
There very well may be limited introduction of new chemistries between now and 2028, but I seriously doubt it will be wide spread adoption. A few manufactures have said they will be making solid state batteries for cars this year, but even if they do - you have to assume it will be for test vehicles first. When it does go out to the wild, unless there is complete shift in manufacturing technology, it will end up being more expensive and reserved for very high end vehicles until the price can drop.

Just getting production started in 2027 will be a huge accomplishment for Scout. I certainly would not be holding my breath for them to pull it off with a battery that is not in commercial production yet. Not only do current solid state batteries need to be tested in vehicles first, cost efficient production lines need to be established. IF things go well, maybe significant adoption might be happening by mid 2030's, but at the same time, other promising tech might be making more cost efficient batteries that will be more common by then anyway.

I am still waiting for the flying cars they promised us by 1990. Those are getting closer too, maybe.
There are flying cars available to order. If you have several $100K sitting around. I’m thinking Jetson lifestyle is probably 2044-2028 range-at least at a price point that 15% of the developed world will be able to afford (like luxury level afford-not 4-door compact afford. Hope to see them in my lifetime. Would be pretty cool
 
There very well may be limited introduction of new chemistries between now and 2028, but I seriously doubt it will be wide spread adoption. A few manufactures have said they will be making solid state batteries for cars this year, but even if they do - you have to assume it will be for test vehicles first. When it does go out to the wild, unless there is complete shift in manufacturing technology, it will end up being more expensive and reserved for very high end vehicles until the price can drop.

Just getting production started in 2027 will be a huge accomplishment for Scout. I certainly would not be holding my breath for them to pull it off with a battery that is not in commercial production yet. Not only do current solid state batteries need to be tested in vehicles first, cost efficient production lines need to be established. IF things go well, maybe significant adoption might be happening by mid 2030's, but at the same time, other promising tech might be making more cost efficient batteries that will be more common by then anyway.

I am still waiting for the flying cars they promised us by 1990. Those are getting closer too, maybe.

Mercedes already has a test mule running one, and the figures are impressive so far. A real world 620 miles of range on a single charge.

“The solid-state battery in the EQS-based vehicle allows for up to 25 % more driving range compared to the same battery weight and size of a corresponding standard EQS battery. Further weight and energy efficiency is achieved through passive battery cooling. The development vehicle is expected to have a range of over 1,000 km (620 miles). For comparison: with a battery capacity of 118 kWh, the current EQS 450+ (energy consumption combined: 19.9–16.3 kWh/100 km | CO₂ emissions combined: 0 g/km | CO₂ class: A)* already offers a range of over 800 km (497 miles).

Mercedes-Benz joined forces with Factorial in 2021 to develop a new generation of battery technology. In the summer of 2024, Factorial delivered lithium-metal solid-state battery cells with the company’s proprietary FEST® (Factorial Electrolyte System Technology) solid-state platforms to Mercedes-Benz, which marked the first lithium metal solid-state battery B sample shipment to a global OEM.“

 
I had a personal aha moment today.

Ive said range anxiety is a big concern for me. I am the type of person that will charge their phone before leaving the house if its below 50%... I travel with multiple battery banks. I also harass my wife about keeping her phone charged.

But today on the way home from the Boy Scouts ceremony I stopped to fill up my Lexus.

After I got in and looked at the fuel range gauge (that I always leave on) it said 310 miles to empty.

The EV model with 35"s will probably be close to that.

I never really sweat having enough range in my Lexus unless I was thinking about a BDR trip or something like that.
Isn't that something, made me think about it as well... with either of my cars, my wife has a V8 Bummer (BmwX5) and I have a diesel truck. her car gets about 350 give or take..(400 if long cruising speeds), my truck has 32 gallon tank and i get about 420 (smirk) miles, almost 500 on the longer princess freeway driving. When we get to where we're going we just park, check in and good to go..toodle around then OH time for fuel!..toodle around.. then couple days later time to head back home..but first gas up again for another 120 bucks. What'll be nice, is I know a lot of hotels and stores, and other places have chargers...so find a spot with a charger (hopefully) and good to go! Same with at home..I will be happy when I can come home, and just plug the beast in... not have to worry about getting fuel in the morning before work (worst lie i continue to tell myself), I'll just know It'll be charged in the morning! I know there will be some learning curves to go along with this, and it isn't all rainbows and flutterbys but..that goes with anything in life..always some kind of learning curve. Like I learned...next time I rent an EV (BMW I3 range of 120 miles) make sure the battery is big enough to go from San Diego to Palm Desert (125 miles) haha we did it! turned the GPS off, air off, heated seats off, regen braking on, cruised at 62 on the freeway wow....Got EDUCATED lol
 
Not sure if others have discussed this, but one thing that keeps popping up in my mind -

In 2028 battery technology could and likely will be very different than today. Thinking through this, would that make the Harvester option any less desirable, any less needed, etc. I personally love the idea of a generator to help during long road trips or remote areas that might give a little extra range anxiety. But I don't love the idea of complications, maintenance, recalls, weight add, etc. that would come out of including this option. I suppose as we get closer to making the final spec lock in, it would be a great to time assess the status of charge infrastructure in North America, charge rate over time, gasoline prices, etc.

I suppose I have plenty of time to think about this. :)
This is my thinking and why i switched to total EV. For me personally all I need is a way to charge overnight while camping at a level 2 amounts. If they could design a system like an Ecoflow solar generator that could lock in to Terra bed so you would only take it when camping. I know you would need a huge amount of solar panels to re charge but in three years maybe there will be panels that could charge while truck and trailer are in transit.
 
Not sure if others have discussed this, but one thing that keeps popping up in my mind -

In 2028 battery technology could and likely will be very different than today. Thinking through this, would that make the Harvester option any less desirable, any less needed, etc. I personally love the idea of a generator to help during long road trips or remote areas that might give a little extra range anxiety. But I don't love the idea of complications, maintenance, recalls, weight add, etc. that would come out of including this option. I suppose as we get closer to making the final spec lock in, it would be a great to time assess the status of charge infrastructure in North America, charge rate over time, gasoline prices, etc.

I suppose I have plenty of time to think about this. :)
A lot of people seem to assume battery technology is advancing more rapidly than it actually is. Lithium ion batteries and the various chemistries that entails are progressing and being developed at a good pace but it's not like an EV bought today will be hopelessly outclassed by an EV bought three years from now. The technology is improving at a rate of a couple percent per year, which does add up over time but isn't a revolutionary step change. An original 2012 Tesla Model S battery isn't drastically different from a current Model S. Sure the new packs are slightly more energy dense (there's more kWh of capacity for a given volume or weight) but not dramatically so. An old Model S still compares well with any modern EV you can buy today.

To be sure there have been improvements in EV architecture over the years but Scout seems to be basing their trucks off the current state of the art which is a good thing. I would have been concerned if Scout had announced a 400V architecture truck for example but they didn't they went 800V as they should have. Yes Tesla and most others including Rivian and Ford are making 400V vehicles but the future clearly belongs to 800V. Higher voltage offers many practical advantages and I expect future product refreshes of current 400V platforms will move to 800V.

As for chemistry, SpaceEVDriver is right, NMC and LFP are the dominant chemistries and likely will be for the foreseeable future. The main research efforts are focused on driving down costs. The specs that Scout has announced are already pushing the limits of what battery technology can deliver as far as range/capacity goes so a lot of the improvements we're seeing in the industry are related to reducing costs and being more efficient.

Solid state has always been hyped as a holy grail and appears to always be 'just five years away'. It's been 'five years away' for the past fifteen years so...

BYD has been doing some interesting stuff around charging speeds and that's cool but they aren't breaking any laws of physics, they're just using a higher "C" rating for charging than other EV companies. If you're knowledgable about FPV drones or any RC hobby that uses LiPo packs then you're basically already familiar with what BYD is doing because a lot of hobby batteries can handle high C ratings so it's not magic.

So yeah, I wouldn't expect the battery tech of an EV in 2028 to look dramatically different from the battery tech in my current 2022 Ioniq 5.
 
A lot of people seem to assume battery technology is advancing more rapidly than it actually is. Lithium ion batteries and the various chemistries that entails are progressing and being developed at a good pace but it's not like an EV bought today will be hopelessly outclassed by an EV bought three years from now. The technology is improving at a rate of a couple percent per year, which does add up over time but isn't a revolutionary step change. An original 2012 Tesla Model S battery isn't drastically different from a current Model S. Sure the new packs are slightly more energy dense (there's more kWh of capacity for a given volume or weight) but not dramatically so. An old Model S still compares well with any modern EV you can buy today.

To be sure there have been improvements in EV architecture over the years but Scout seems to be basing their trucks off the current state of the art which is a good thing. I would have been concerned if Scout had announced a 400V architecture truck for example but they didn't they went 800V as they should have. Yes Tesla and most others including Rivian and Ford are making 400V vehicles but the future clearly belongs to 800V. Higher voltage offers many practical advantages and I expect future product refreshes of current 400V platforms will move to 800V.

As for chemistry, SpaceEVDriver is right, NMC and LFP are the dominant chemistries and likely will be for the foreseeable future. The main research efforts are focused on driving down costs. The specs that Scout has announced are already pushing the limits of what battery technology can deliver as far as range/capacity goes so a lot of the improvements we're seeing in the industry are related to reducing costs and being more efficient.

Solid state has always been hyped as a holy grail and appears to always be 'just five years away'. It's been 'five years away' for the past fifteen years so...

BYD has been doing some interesting stuff around charging speeds and that's cool but they aren't breaking any laws of physics, they're just using a higher "C" rating for charging than other EV companies. If you're knowledgable about FPV drones or any RC hobby that uses LiPo packs then you're basically already familiar with what BYD is doing because a lot of hobby batteries can handle high C ratings so it's not magic.

So yeah, I wouldn't expect the battery tech of an EV in 2028 to look dramatically different from the battery tech in my current 2022 Ioniq 5.
Tell me if I am thinking about this correctly. The battery improvements are like going from an iPhone to an iPhone 16. Not a flip phone to an iPhone. Basically the same functionality just a little improved. Not night and day difference.
 
Tell me if I am thinking about this correctly. The battery improvements are like going from an iPhone to an iPhone 16. Not a flip phone to an iPhone. Basically the same functionality just a little improved. Not night and day difference.
Pretty much yeah. It's more like going from an iPhone 13 to an iPhone 16 in that you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

To give a real world example, my car - a 2022 Ioniq 5 has a 77.4 kWh battery. This year Hyundai did a "mid-cycle refresh" to add all the accumulated improvements they've made which resulted in a slightly more energy dense battery so the newest version of my car now has an 84.0 kWh battery. It's an improvement to be sure, but I don't think most people will notice the added 20 miles of range that more dense pack gives.

So in three years of development they've added 6.6kWh more capacity to the same-size battery which gives about 20 miles more range. It's not nothing but it's not ground breaking either. It does add up over time though.

Incremental improvement.
 
Pretty much yeah. It's more like going from an iPhone 13 to an iPhone 16 in that you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

To give a real world example, my car - a 2022 Ioniq 5 has a 77.4 kWh battery. This year Hyundai did a "mid-cycle refresh" to add all the accumulated improvements they've made which resulted in a slightly more energy dense battery so the newest version of my car now has an 84.0 kWh battery. It's an improvement to be sure, but I don't think most people will notice the added 20 miles of range that more dense pack gives.

So in three years of development they've added 6.6kWh more capacity to the same-size battery which gives about 20 miles more range. It's not nothing but it's not ground breaking either. It does add up over time though.

Incremental improvement.
Got it. Thank you!
 
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This is my thinking and why i switched to total EV. For me personally all I need is a way to charge overnight while camping at a level 2 amounts. If they could design a system like an Ecoflow solar generator that could lock in to Terra bed so you would only take it when camping. I know you would need a huge amount of solar panels to re charge but in three years maybe there will be panels that could charge while truck and trailer are in transit.

When not camping at a place with RV hookups, I carry a 5 kWh power station. I get L1 charging rate from it, but the rate isn’t nearly as important as the total energy. Because of the size of the power station, I can only dump 5 kWh into the truck (really 4 kWh because I like to use it for my fridge and other camping appliances as well and I don’t let it discharge completely). I carry 400-800 Watts of solar with me when I am boondocking for a long time. That can refill the accessory battery by midday and then I can start putting the excess (plus some) into the truck.

In my fantasy world, I will someday have time to build a travel trailer with the battery (&charging equipment) from a wrecked Leaf or Mustang or something similar and can tow an extra 70 kWh of battery in the trailer. That won’t be able to charge the truck while in motion, but once I get to my boondocking site, I’ll be able to do a DC-DC or L2 or charge from the trailer to the truck. And I’ll have a CCS1 charger on the trailer too so I can charge it at the same time as the truck is charging…. Someday.
 
A lot of people seem to assume battery technology is advancing more rapidly than it actually is. Lithium ion batteries and the various chemistries that entails are progressing and being developed at a good pace but it's not like an EV bought today will be hopelessly outclassed by an EV bought three years from now. The technology is improving at a rate of a couple percent per year, which does add up over time but isn't a revolutionary step change. An original 2012 Tesla Model S battery isn't drastically different from a current Model S. Sure the new packs are slightly more energy dense (there's more kWh of capacity for a given volume or weight) but not dramatically so. An old Model S still compares well with any modern EV you can buy today.

To be sure there have been improvements in EV architecture over the years but Scout seems to be basing their trucks off the current state of the art which is a good thing. I would have been concerned if Scout had announced a 400V architecture truck for example but they didn't they went 800V as they should have. Yes Tesla and most others including Rivian and Ford are making 400V vehicles but the future clearly belongs to 800V. Higher voltage offers many practical advantages and I expect future product refreshes of current 400V platforms will move to 800V.

As for chemistry, SpaceEVDriver is right, NMC and LFP are the dominant chemistries and likely will be for the foreseeable future. The main research efforts are focused on driving down costs. The specs that Scout has announced are already pushing the limits of what battery technology can deliver as far as range/capacity goes so a lot of the improvements we're seeing in the industry are related to reducing costs and being more efficient.

Solid state has always been hyped as a holy grail and appears to always be 'just five years away'. It's been 'five years away' for the past fifteen years so...

BYD has been doing some interesting stuff around charging speeds and that's cool but they aren't breaking any laws of physics, they're just using a higher "C" rating for charging than other EV companies. If you're knowledgable about FPV drones or any RC hobby that uses LiPo packs then you're basically already familiar with what BYD is doing because a lot of hobby batteries can handle high C ratings so it's not magic.

So yeah, I wouldn't expect the battery tech of an EV in 2028 to look dramatically different from the battery tech in my current 2022 Ioniq 5.
Thanks for the info, great to hear everyone's opinion on this.
 
Solid state has always been hyped as a holy grail and appears to always be 'just five years away'. It's been 'five years away' for the past fifteen years so...
Yup. Toyota announced semi-solid state batteries in 2010 and claimed they would be ready in a few years, but have yet to install them in any of their vehicles. True solid-state are still further away than semi-solid state.
 
Not only all charged up, but the interior temp will be just right.
Thanks a great point. And done so on a timer. Not like running down, cracking your door open for exhaust and hitting the remote start to run for 10-15 minutes before you leave. That’s a big bonus as little as it may seem