What is More Important? - EV Charge Time or EV Range

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What is More Important? - EV Charge Time or EV Range

  • EV Charge Time

    Votes: 14 40.0%
  • EV Range

    Votes: 21 60.0%

  • Total voters
    35
  • This poll will close: .
It'd be interesting to see how the two would do coast-to-coast. The EV just needing to charge while the Harvester needing to either gas-then-generate-for-awhile (and then only getting ~350 of range) or gas-then-charge (for the full 500 mi range). It seems that either refueling patten might take as long or longer than just charging the EV version, because either way you're first refueling then you're recharging. Certainly the Harvester would get a quick lead, but after that I wouldn't be entirely surprised if the EV starts slowly closing the gap. It'd be interesting to run a simulation..

And do I recall someplace that the Harvester max towing capacity will probably be less than the EV? Perhaps it will be limited by the maximum sustained output of the generator.
That whole towing question caused quite the discussion. I think the general consensus was we need to wait for final details as the trucks are going through testing, etc.
 
In the case of those choosing the BEV, the "penalty" taken (when compared to the Harvester) is not being able to reach 500 miles on a full charge. You will need to charge BEFORE you reach 500 miles, but you could theoretically then pass the Harvester truck on a road trip at the 500 mile mark, then charge again. I'm envisioning some leap-frogging for at least the first legs of a longer "side by side" type journey between the two...

In the case of the Harvester, the penalty will be charging AND filling a tank after 500 miles (or filling a tank and waiting for the generator to charge the battery). Of course having a sub-system, and having more maintenance could be considered an ownership "penalty" of sorts.
Driving the BEV for 350 miles then charging or the Harvester for 500 then charging and buying gas is not the smart way to road trip either one, assuming the goal is to minimize total time. Smart BEV road trippers recharge within the fast part of the curve, say about in the 25-75% range. Even making some short legs to bridge DCFC locations instead of longer legs and accepting some slow chargers. Set the Harvester to maintain the battery in some reasonable range and buy gas before you run out. For pure nonstop travel the Harvester will win. But if you add meal stops and especially overnights, the BEV might do as well, if DCFC chargers can be found.
 
And do I recall someplace that the Harvester max towing capacity will probably be less than the EV? Perhaps it will be limited by the maximum sustained output of the generator.
The generator output does not affect towing capacity, as long as the system is maintaining a sufficient SOC you are driving off the battery in essence. The job for Scout is to make the generator big enough to maintain the battery over a typical drive at reasonable speeds. Which is smaller than some folks might think. Some of this came out in the Motor Trend interview. The engine and generator are adding weight to the rear axle, reducing extra load capacity and probably limiting towing capacity somewhat. The different battery chemistry in the Harvester has a lower maximum output, probably reducing maximum motor hp or torque, also reducing towing capacity.
 
Driving the BEV for 350 miles then charging or the Harvester for 500 then charging and buying gas is not the smart way to road trip either one, assuming the goal is to minimize total time. Smart BEV road trippers recharge within the fast part of the curve, say about in the 25-75% range. Even making some short legs to bridge DCFC locations instead of longer legs and accepting some slow chargers. Set the Harvester to maintain the battery in some reasonable range and buy gas before you run out. For pure nonstop travel the Harvester will win. But if you add meal stops and especially overnights, the BEV might do as well, if DCFC chargers can be found.
Yes, 100% true on a normal road trip. I don't think you need to find a DCFC for any overnights though, since L2's would charge batteries on both the BEV and the Harvester fully, and they are available at many hotels. My post was in response to the OP who stated, "go as far as you can" - of course we don't know what the charging curve will look like, and there will likely be a sweet spot for each in terms of distance traveled to be most efficient.

The reality though, is that depending upon where you are and the infrastructure that is available in that area, you may or may not be able to stop in that sweet spot. You might need to go long, or you may need to stop a couple of times because your trip distance to a destination dictates a charge or fuel spot. That is why both options can be seen as appealing to different buyers. Infrastructure is getting better, batteries are getting better, charging curves are flattening, charging times are getting shorter with better thermal management and improvements to BMS systems.

I guess the only time you might want to charge to 100% for a test like this would be if you had a final DCFC location that was 350 miles from your target (and you had the ability to charge when you got there), or for an overnight stop depending on the distance of the test.

I'm sure there will be a slew of comparisons to help better inform buyers of the benefit of both. Thinking about all of this and the advancements that continue only make me (personally) more excited about the BEV, but if i lived in Montana or spent a lot of my time off-grid, I would probably be more interested in seeing some longer range test results with the Harvester.
 
I'm sure there will be a slew of comparisons to help better inform buyers of the benefit of both. Thinking about all of this and the advancements that continue only make me (personally) more excited about the BEV, but if i lived in Montana or spent a lot of my time off-grid, I would probably be more interested in seeing some longer range test results with the Harvester.
Your comment and the recent charger map posts inspired me to write my "Fun with energy use numbers" post, trying to get some estimates of road trip behavior from what we know so far. I'm still in the Harvester camp, but with a much more open mind. I'll have to set up some Google map trips of routes we take, checking every few months to see how charging availability improves.
 
Your comment and the recent charger map posts inspired me to write my "Fun with energy use numbers" post, trying to get some estimates of road trip behavior from what we know so far. I'm still in the Harvester camp, but with a much more open mind. I'll have to set up some Google map trips of routes we take, checking every few months to see how charging availability improves.
Good idea!
 
Your comment and the recent charger map posts inspired me to write my "Fun with energy use numbers" post, trying to get some estimates of road trip behavior from what we know so far. I'm still in the Harvester camp, but with a much more open mind. I'll have to set up some Google map trips of routes we take, checking every few months to see how charging availability improves.
The "A Better Route Planner" app can help with this. They're overly conservative for my tastes, they stop at stops I wouldn't, and they assume longer charge times than I get, but they're a good start to estimating travel possibilities. I'd suggest using the Lightning AWD Extended Range as your vehicle for testing. This will be extra conservative since the range in the Lightning is estimated to be 320 miles instead of 350 miles.

You can use their website too, instead of installing the app. Creating an account is optional.
 
Can't wait to see the comparison video (that will undoubtedly be produced post launch) of taking a pure 350mi range Terra and a Harvester Terra on a 1000 mile+ road trip. That will be interesting, and results will vary based on where that test (or tests) take place, availability of DCFC infrastructure (or gas and DCFC infrastructure in the case of the Harvester), weather, geography, etc. I'm 100% committed to the Pure EV so whoever wins an edge case road trip won't matter, but will be interesing!
How about Tampa to Dead Horse?

They would get just about everything thrown at them.