Don't let the Scout become a status symbol; why $60k misses the point of the Revival

[robothero]

My wife drives a Volvo XC90. I always pictured the Traveler as an XC60 (or I guess EX60 now) alternative.

But the XC90 is only 5 inches longer than the Traveler without the spare. The R1S is only 9 inches longer without the spare.

These two cars are $62k (the electric EX90 is $79k) and $77k base respectively.

 

[Schmeegz]

This is actually a concern and a reason I may pass on the Scout Terra and hope for something smaller in the 2nd generation

Fortunately someone already did the comparison to the Scout II, see here:

Thread 'Scout Dimensions Updated On Our Website'

Nov 1, 2024

We have updated the dimensions of the concept vehicles on our website to be clearer. I would only add that while these concepts are 85-90% accurate, there could be minor changes with the production models (different side mirror designs, overall height that varies with wheel and suspension setup, etc.,etc.).

TRAVELER:

TERRA:

• Jamie@ScoutMotors
• Replies: 41
• Forum: GENERAL DISCUSSION

• 

Which I will summarize for myself and may update if I find more accurate data later, or with the dimensions of my garage which my Scout II fits in, but I am very doubtful the new Terra will fit.

Dimensions in Inches	Terra (2027?)	My Scout II (1973?)
Length	229.2	166.2
Wheelbase	148.6	100
Width without mirrors	79.9	70
Width with mirrors	91.6	about 86
Height with roof rails	77.7	About 75

Also, I realize people want their full size trucks. One thing I haven't fully digested is that going from a Subaru Outback to a Ioniq 5, the use of space in the EV is just somehow more efficient so even though the car is physically smaller, I really haven't had as much degradation in cargo capacity as I feared. The only thing is if I need to transport something longer then the folded down back seat cargo area dimensions, but in a truck with an open bed this should not be an issue, just let it extend over the tailgate or temporarily add a lumber rack, like in the olden days.

Full size for me.... after years and years in Jeep Wranglers, the cabin just isn't that comfortable. Feel the same way in mid-size trucks or several of the crossover suv's my wife has had. The only othrer options are F-150 lightning (discontinued) and the Cybertruck, which just sits too low for my liking (after 25 mph = 95% of driving).

My wife gets the 2 car garage in the winter so I am a driveway guy regardless, and let's be honest... 2 car garages really don't fit 2 cars all that well, especially when you have lawn equipment, snow blower, tools, racks for other outdoor stuff that stay out there, etc.

 

[robothero]

Comparison sorted by length

Vehicle	Length (inches)	Base MSRP (USD)
Scout Traveler (w/ spare)	207.9	~$60,000 (target)
Rivian R1S	200.8	~$78,000
Tesla Model X	198.3	~$86,000
Volvo EX90	198.3	~$76,000
Volvo XC90	195.0	~$57,000
Scout Traveler (w/o spare)	190.9	~$60,000 (target)
Tesla Model Y	187.0	~$40,000
Rivian R2 (upcoming)	185.6	~$45,000
Volvo XC60	185.4	~$47,000
Volvo EX60 (upcoming)	~181–185 (est.)	~TBD (~$55k–$65k est.)

 

[jeremydunworth]

Full size for me.... after years and years in Jeep Wranglers, the cabin just isn't that comfortable. Feel the same way in mid-size trucks or several of the crossover suv's my wife has had. The only othrer options are F-150 lightning (discontinued) and the Cybertruck, which just sits too low for my liking (after 25 mph = 95% of driving).

My wife gets the 2 car garage in the winter so I am a driveway guy regardless, and let's be honest... 2 car garages really don't fit 2 cars all that well, especially when you have lawn equipment, snow blower, tools, racks for other outdoor stuff that stay out there, etc.

We are a one car garage. One of the costs of living in San Diego.

I guess I better measure the driveway and see if I can even fit without blocking the sidewalk, otherwise the only option is parking on the street, which is doable but a pain for charging from the garage.

 

[strider]

Woah. Thank you @robothero. I hadn't realized that the 208" number for the Traveller was with the spare. That had caused me to wonder why they didn't add a 3rd row but now it makes sense. So it's actually 8" shorter than my Model X. Interesting....

 

[robothero]

Woah. Thank you @robothero. I hadn't realized that the 208" number for the Traveller was with the spare. That had caused me to wonder why they didn't add a 3rd row but now it makes sense. So it's actually 8" shorter than my Model X. Interesting....

I didn't even think to include the X/Y in there, I'm going to update with those two added.

 

[cyure]

Woah. Thank you @robothero. I hadn't realized that the 208" number for the Traveller was with the spare. That had caused me to wonder why they didn't add a 3rd row but now it makes sense. So it's actually 8" shorter than my Model X. Interesting....

Yes 190 without the tire carrier and add 17 inches with it so 207. Basically the length of a 4Runner and then add a tire carrier on the back.

 

[jeremydunworth]

We are a one car garage. One of the costs of living in San Diego.

I guess I better measure the driveway and see if I can even fit without blocking the sidewalk, otherwise the only option is parking on the street, which is doable but a pain for charging from the garage.

I put our 2012 Subaru Outback in the driveway tonight, it basically takes the whole length.

According to Edmunds.com the length of 2012 Subaru Outback is 188.2 inches. So I can probably fit the Traveler, especially if I can take the rear tire off for daily driving and only put it on when needed for trips. But the Terra is 41 inches longer, that is almost 3 1/2 feet. This could mean I have to buy a house with a bigger garage or driveway before I can buy the Terra. That moves the price of the Terra from $60k+ to $several million (San Diego real estate iykyk) + $60k+. Hmm....

What are the chances of getting a 2 door regular cab version of the Terra in the future? Perhaps on the Traveler wheelbase. Serious question.

Edit: I did use the search, some hints of an answer here: https://community.scoutmotors.com/threads/2-door-terra-option.1623/
in particular: https://community.scoutmotors.com/threads/2-door-terra-option.1623/post-21157

 

[Scout_Lookout]

Full size for me.... after years and years in Jeep Wranglers, the cabin just isn't that comfortable. Feel the same way in mid-size trucks or several of the crossover suv's my wife has had. The only othrer options are F-150 lightning (discontinued) and the Cybertruck, which just sits too low for my liking (after 25 mph = 95% of driving).

My wife gets the 2 car garage in the winter so I am a driveway guy regardless, and let's be honest... 2 car garages really don't fit 2 cars all that well, especially when you have lawn equipment, snow blower, tools, racks for other outdoor stuff that stay out there, etc.

I could not agree with you more. I bought a new crew cab F-150 in 2019 and I loved everything about it, the sitting higher, cab space, and bed space. Then I went the total opposite direction when I started working for Tesla and got a long range Model 3 (huge difference I know lol). After a few years in that I absolutely had to get something bigger so naturally I started at a Lightning but there wasn't enough tech, then I shopped the Hummer EV and it was friggin awesome but again didn't have enough tech.

Currently I own a 2025 Rivian R1T and the tech is amazing, the capability is amazing, fantastic power, and storage for days! However, its just not big enough IMO. My kids are 10 and 13 now and plus the dog we just need more room, so I may be popping into a R1S soon while I wait for the Traveler. But its the size of the new Scouts is what has me sold above all else, and I cannot wait to be back in a full size vehicle again!

 

[Schmeegz]

I could not agree with you more. I bought a new crew cab F-150 in 2019 and I loved everything about it, the sitting higher, cab space, and bed space. Then I went the total opposite direction when I started working for Tesla and got a long range Model 3 (huge difference I know lol). After a few years in that I absolutely had to get something bigger so naturally I started at Lightning but there wasn't enough tech for, then I shopped the Hummer EV and it friggin awesome but again didn't have enough tech.

Currently I own a 2025 Rivian R1T and the tech is amazing, the capability is amazing, fantastic power, and storage for days! However, its just not big enough IMO. My kids are 10 and 13 now and plus the dog we just need more room, so I may be popping into a R1S soon while I wait for the Traveler. But its the size of the new Scouts is what has me sold above all else, and I cannot wait to be back in a full size vehicle again!

100% ^^^^^

 

[tomgillotti]

I don't know if you are still looking for "gap vehicle" recommendations. Mine is a Hyundai Ioniq 5. If you happen to be near Kearny Mesa Subaru Hyundai in San Diego, I have a specific salesperson to recommend.

Thanks. I drive a KIA now. Never again

 

[tomgillotti]

Catching up on the thread after a bit. I see we are still using $60k Tahoes to establish a baseline and insisting that an accessible starting price simply isn't realistic anymore.

I was watching the TFL YouTube video today of a recent walk-around of the Scout in the PNW, and Tommy said something that perfectly encapsulates the exact pricing problem I've been pointing out.

He specifically referred to the upcoming Scout as a "luxury off-roader." That label is incredibly incriminating. It tells us everything we need to know about the trajectory of this vehicle and how the media (and likely the corporate PR machine) is positioning it. The original International Harvester Scout was the ultimate utilitarian, working-class vehicle. It was a tool.

If this revival is already being branded as a "luxury off-roader," it means they are abandoning that ethos entirely to justify a premium MSRP. In the automotive industry, the word "luxury" is simply a corporate hall pass to charge $60k, $70k, $80k++.

If we have reached the point where we are accepting that the new Scout is a luxury vehicle, then a $60k+ price tag is inevitable. But if that happens, it completely misses the point of the revival, and it prices out the exact mass market that a brand-new platform needs to survive.

 

[R1TVT]

I was watching the TFL YouTube video today of a recent walk-around of the Scout in the PNW, and Tommy said something that perfectly encapsulates the exact pricing problem I've been pointing out.

Did we see he see his shadow this year?

 

[bb00799]

Catching up on the thread after a bit. I see we are still using $60k Tahoes to establish a baseline and insisting that an accessible starting price simply isn't realistic anymore.

I was watching the TFL YouTube video today of a recent walk-around of the Scout in the PNW, and Tommy said something that perfectly encapsulates the exact pricing problem I've been pointing out.

He specifically referred to the upcoming Scout as a "luxury off-roader." That label is incredibly incriminating. It tells us everything we need to know about the trajectory of this vehicle and how the media (and likely the corporate PR machine) is positioning it. The original International Harvester Scout was the ultimate utilitarian, working-class vehicle. It was a tool.

If this revival is already being branded as a "luxury off-roader," it means they are abandoning that ethos entirely to justify a premium MSRP. In the automotive industry, the word "luxury" is simply a corporate hall pass to charge $60k, $70k, $80k++.

If we have reached the point where we are accepting that the new Scout is a luxury vehicle, then a $60k+ price tag is inevitable. But if that happens, it completely misses the point of the revival, and it prices out the exact mass market that a brand-new platform needs to survive.

"Entry-model pricing expected to start under $60,000."

To be fair it was crazy to think that it would never be in the 60k - 80k range. I mean just look at the BMW IX3 pricing, basically tops out at 80k if you start selecting the more expensive offerings.

If the Traveler sits in between the R2 and R1S price wise, it makes a lot of sense given its performance and size.

 

[Gottesacker]

"Entry-model pricing expected to start under $60,000."

To be fair it was crazy to think that it would never be in the 60k - 80k range. I mean just look at the BMW IX3 pricing, basically tops out at 80k if you start selecting the more expensive offerings.

If the Traveler sits in between the R2 and R1S price wise, it makes a lot of sense given its performance and size.

It would certainly be nice if the pricing started closer to that $40-45k mark though. That said, I'm expecting it to have a lot of standard equipment at $60k.

 

[strider]

Where's that beating a dead horse emoji?

You suffer from something called anchoring. The US spent 40 years in disinflation (1980-2020) but is now in an inflationary regime. You do not have a frame of reference for what that means - you still apply a disinflationary bias to everything you see. You need to change your perspective. The US government is running $2T deficits every year. There is $22T in total cash and cash equivalents (M2) in circulation. This means that the value of your dollar is going down by 9% PER YEAR. Repeat after me.... Prices are not going up, the value of your dollars are going down.

Also, Scout was never going to make a utilitarian vehicle. You can rage about that all you want but that was never part of the brief. The vehicles that they are building are going to cost what they cost. To make it cheaper will require materially changing the vehicle, market, etc.

All that being said, one feature of the DTC model is that Scout can adjust pricing in order to affect demand. Tesla is a master at this, sometimes to a fault. They dropped the price on my car by $30k shortly after I bought it. I had preordered at the higher price but once they exhausted the backlog they had excess and dropped the price. I can be mad about that and shorten my life with the stress, or I can just carry on. Life is too short to dwell on the negative....