Manual Control of 4x4 system instead of silly GOAT like modes

[CarTechGeek]

Please treat buyers like adults when it comes to controlling the subsystems when off-road.

I've always disliked mode based control like Ford "GOAT" modes (I hate them on cameras too), and this was brought home when I watched a video comparing some 2 door 4x4s. When it got the Ford, they were basically cycling through GOAT modes trying to get it to behave. If you must have modes, have one be manual, and remember you were using manual the last time...

When you push a Button for Off-road, bring up a screen with the important parameters:

1: Accelerator Pedal Mapping. This is where you are basically choosing 4 High, or 4 Low - 4 High is the normal default mode. There is no need for 2WD on an EV since there is no driveline binding. 4 Low is the important one. It drops the speed range down to about 25 MPH max, and give more fine grained crawl control. It also enables control over diff locks, and Sway bar disconnects.

2: Differential Locks. Only enabled in "4 Low".

3: Sway Bar disconnect. Only enabled in "4 Low".

4: Traction Control.

• 0 - Off - Completely Off (aside from driveline protection) - Perhaps Only in "4 low".
• 1 - cross axle Brake Torque Distribution Only - Basically this just an inferior substitute for diff lockers - not everyone will have them. large amount of spin still allowed if it's both wheels on an axle.
• 2 - Only moderate amount of spin allowed.
• 3 - Spin tightly controlled.

5: Trail Crawl Control. Allow automated slow progress mode 1-10 MPH.


IMO, this is MUCH better than a bunch of silly modes (sand, mud and ruts, rocks, etc...) that simply create mystery about what the drive systems are doing. Just let people control what they want the systems to do directly.

 

[CarTechGeek]

Isn’t this documented in the car’s manual? It seems like a real fail to not explain what they do and when they’d be applicable.

They explain big things like Lockers coming on. But they are opaque on traction control.

 

[Scoutsie]

They explain big things like Lockers coming on. But they are opaque on traction control.

That’s annoying. Everything that’s engaged by a mode should be documented and explained in some depth like you were talking to a kid. Anything less than that’s irresponsible and lazy. I really hate it when the manufacturers skimp on documentation.

I’d be delighted to have a giant book with a lot of info. I know people don’t like to read, but it’s to their own peril if they don’t RTFM. If there was some kind of training that was more in-depth than an overview of the controls, even better.

 

[J Alynn]

That’s annoying. Everything that’s engaged by a mode should be documented and explained in some depth like you were talking to a kid. Anything less than that’s irresponsible and lazy. I really hate it when the manufacturers skimp on documentation.

I’d be delighted to have a giant book with a lot of info. I know people don’t like to read, but it’s to their own peril if they don’t RTFM. If there was some kind of training that was more in-depth than an overview of the controls, even better.

Maybe these things should be added as an add on class if factory delivery is selected. Like $300 for a second day to run courses and be walked through one mode after the next and put vehicles into the situations that require knowledge on hi/low, sways, etc…. I’d probably pay for that to fully understand capabilities and the dos and don’t of the Scouts

 

[Scoutsie]

Maybe these things should be added as an add on class if factory delivery is selected. Like $300 for a second day to run courses and be walked through one mode after the next and put vehicles into the situations that require knowledge on hi/low, sways, etc…. I’d probably pay for that to fully understand capabilities and the dos and don’t of the Scouts

I’d do it. I’d want to know what the hell I’m doing and to be shown by someone who knows what the hell they’re doing who is specifically the hell trained on the vehicle I just the hell bought hell.

 

[MountainDad]

GOAT mode is for people who have zero experience & are just learning to those who understands the fine points of it & just don’t want to deal with what can be pre set and forgotten

I want my lockers to be available in 4H, they are quite useful even in 2H without going to 4X4 mode

4L is a torque monster, allowing you to crawl over obstacles & the real low gearing is what keeps your speed down


Traction control, on or off…it’s very simple

With an EV, you don't need 4L. Torque is max at zero RPM up through the useful range of wheel speeds to very high RPM and would be very close to rated motor torque (little/no driveline losses esp to rear since the motor is in the axle). So you're talking several hundred ft-lbs from the instant you touch the accelerator.

Others have offered there should be settings for better accelerator modulation, so that you aren't having to tickle the accelerator with your toes to avoid wheel spin in low traction/climbing/rock crawling situations. I like this idea - my Land Rover adjusts throttle mapping for certain modes for this reason, to make for a smoother and more precisely controlled off-road driving experience.

 

[Mousehunter]

Mostly as a joke, as I do not see using my Scout for this - but I feed cattle. Low is great to get the speed I want so the feeder drops with the intervals I want. Not like you can set cruise control for 2mph - well at least not in an ICE vehicle. Flip side, I doubt many Scout purchasers will have be driving a tractor in their free time. (FWIW, while I do feed with my truck - it is easier to just tow the wagon with my tractor). I generally only feed with my truck when I need to refill the wagon.

 

[Rampy]

Mostly as a joke, as I do not see using my Scout for this - but I feed cattle. Low is great to get the speed I want so the feeder drops with the intervals I want. Not like you can set cruise control for 2mph - well at least not in an ICE vehicle. Flip side, I doubt many Scout purchasers will have be driving a tractor in their free time. (FWIW, while I do feed with my truck - it is easier to just tow the wagon with my tractor). I generally only feed with my truck when I need to refill the wagon.

My Raptor had a crawl mode, you engage it & set the cruse control at 2mph & the truck did the work for you

 

[ID_ENG]

Please treat buyers like adults when it comes to controlling the subsystems when off-road.

I've always disliked mode based control like Ford "GOAT" modes (I hate them on cameras too), and this was brought home when I watched a video comparing some 2 door 4x4s. When it got the Ford, they were basically cycling through GOAT modes trying to get it to behave. If you must have modes, have one be manual, and remember you were using manual the last time...

When you push a Button for Off-road, bring up a screen with the important parameters:

1: Accelerator Pedal Mapping. This is where you are basically choosing 4 High, or 4 Low - 4 High is the normal default mode. There is no need for 2WD on an EV since there is no driveline binding. 4 Low is the important one. It drops the speed range down to about 25 MPH max, and give more fine grained crawl control. It also enables control over diff locks, and Sway bar disconnects.

2: Differential Locks. Only enabled in "4 Low".

3: Sway Bar disconnect. Only enabled in "4 Low".

4: Traction Control.

• 0 - Off - Completely Off (aside from driveline protection) - Perhaps Only in "4 low".
• 1 - cross axle Brake Torque Distribution Only - Basically this just an inferior substitute for diff lockers - not everyone will have them. large amount of spin still allowed if it's both wheels on an axle.
• 2 - Only moderate amount of spin allowed.
• 3 - Spin tightly controlled.

5: Trail Crawl Control. Allow automated slow progress mode 1-10 MPH.


IMO, this is MUCH better than a bunch of silly modes (sand, mud and ruts, rocks, etc...) that simply create mystery about what the drive systems are doing. Just let people control what they want the systems to do directly.

I like this. My only opposition to this is sway bar disconnect only allowed on 4 low. I use it all the time in 4 high. And is very much appreciated. It will automatically kick back on if I go past like 15 MPH. So I'd expect similar here too.

 

[MountainDad]

Mostly as a joke, as I do not see using my Scout for this - but I feed cattle. Low is great to get the speed I want so the feeder drops with the intervals I want. Not like you can set cruise control for 2mph - well at least not in an ICE vehicle. Flip side, I doubt many Scout purchasers will have be driving a tractor in their free time. (FWIW, while I do feed with my truck - it is easier to just tow the wagon with my tractor). I generally only feed with my truck when I need to refill the wagon.

Land Rover pioneered an off-road cruise control that others like Toyota have since emulated. It works only in 4 Low.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

My Gladiator doesn't have modes, and still will pull power unless it's in low range and you do the button truffle shuffle first.

Super fun to get stuck halfway up a climb because the ESC system was like, nah, no... no, not that, you don't want that, let's close this throttle down.

 

[ohvrider]

Please treat buyers like adults when it comes to controlling the subsystems when off-road.

I've always disliked mode based control like Ford "GOAT" modes (I hate them on cameras too), and this was brought home when I watched a video comparing some 2 door 4x4s. When it got the Ford, they were basically cycling through GOAT modes trying to get it to behave. If you must have modes, have one be manual, and remember you were using manual the last time...

When you push a Button for Off-road, bring up a screen with the important parameters:

1: Accelerator Pedal Mapping. This is where you are basically choosing 4 High, or 4 Low - 4 High is the normal default mode. There is no need for 2WD on an EV since there is no driveline binding. 4 Low is the important one. It drops the speed range down to about 25 MPH max, and give more fine grained crawl control. It also enables control over diff locks, and Sway bar disconnects.

2: Differential Locks. Only enabled in "4 Low".

3: Sway Bar disconnect. Only enabled in "4 Low".

4: Traction Control.

• 0 - Off - Completely Off (aside from driveline protection) - Perhaps Only in "4 low".
• 1 - cross axle Brake Torque Distribution Only - Basically this just an inferior substitute for diff lockers - not everyone will have them. large amount of spin still allowed if it's both wheels on an axle.
• 2 - Only moderate amount of spin allowed.
• 3 - Spin tightly controlled.

5: Trail Crawl Control. Allow automated slow progress mode 1-10 MPH.


IMO, this is MUCH better than a bunch of silly modes (sand, mud and ruts, rocks, etc...) that simply create mystery about what the drive systems are doing. Just let people control what they want the systems to do directly.

They could offer a My Mod like new Raptor that allows you have have your very own mode.

I didn't think I'd like them but it's great for Wife or someone else driving my car when I'm say in the side side or on a bike and they can't ask me what to do.

 

[J Alynn]

This is pretty cool as a mode goes

976K views · 32K reactions | Sweet... | Boondock Overlander

Sweet....

www.facebook.com

 

[cyure]

This is pretty cool as a mode goes

976K views · 32K reactions | Sweet... | Boondock Overlander

Sweet....

www.facebook.com

Very cool

 

[Chavannigans]

Just putting my .02 in here.

I'm a pretty skilled driver and have built quiet a few in my day for rock bashing and overlanding.

The more features like Crawl Control the better. I will never use it, but it's not all about me.

Here's my thinking.

My family and I go out to Big Bend State Park. Camp sites are about an hour from the ranger station due to terrain. The ranger station is another 2 hours from the main road.

We set up camp. Grab some lunch and go for a few hours hike before returning to our site.

I naturally eat some food that sat out all day because my kids are wasteful cretens and I am the family garbage disposal. So later that night I start puking and ripping with a bad case of food poisoning. In no condition to drive, my wife has to get us back to civilization while she chastises me for eating anything left out in the sun, and that an egg salad sandwich was probably a gamble I shouldn't have taken.

My wife is not into offroading so she's already going to be white knuckling it as she tries to navigate rocky shelfs and washouts as I'm moaning in the passenger seat. If she can activate a "Trail Guide Mode" that helps her get us to the hospital sooner, and safer, I'm all for it.

This would also be helpful when you get stuck in soft sand and she or one of the kids could use a crawl mode to creep out of the sand while I dig and reposition the traction boards. Little Shell at Padre Island National Seashore is hours away from a main road and recovery bills out there will be approaching 4 figures.

Neither of those scenarios involve me using that feature, but it could still very well bail me out of a bad situation.

I too would also like to be able to give it the beans without nanny software derating output and bringing me to a stop on a loose rocky climb that could arguably put us in a perilous situation.

I hope the software team can give us a spectrum of off-road aids as well as the ability to disable them like we do on our Toyotas with the A-TRAC system disengagement button.

If we are being honest our vehicles are off-road maybe 1-5% of the time, but that 1% of driving can have a variety of conditions that one single setting may not provide the best user experience with.

If a break a CV shaft, that's on me. Like it has been for the past 15 years, and why I always keep a spare with me on wheeling trips.

Speaking of which, I hope they aren't too pricey because I plan on having a lot of fun with our Scout at the local off-road Park.

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

I’m all for different modes for folks who want them, but I don’t use them. My first 4x4 was a 88 Ford Bronco, and it was either 2wd, 4wd high, or 4wd low. There was also no ABS or any sort of traction control. It was a fantastic vehicle to learn how to off road in. What I’ve learned is things like “Snow Mode” just changes throttle response to where it’s neutered, and the ABS works funky. Again, offer it to those who want it, but my idea of “Snow Mode” is 4-Hi with the traction control turned off.

 

[R1TVT]

I’m all for different modes for folks who want them, but I don’t use them. My first 4x4 was a 88 Ford Bronco, and it was either 2wd, 4wd high, or 4wd low. There was also no ABS or any sort of traction control. It was a fantastic vehicle to learn how to off road in. What I’ve learned is things like “Snow Mode” just changes throttle response to where it’s neutered, and the ABS works funky. Again, offer it to those who want it, but my idea of “Snow Mode” is 4-Hi with the traction control turned off.

Right, but in an EV truck using Snow Mode also is a short-cut to reduced Regen PLUS throttle response, which is important in an EV. It's just a grouping of configurations setting that would be commonly used, based on conditions. So, you could get there with multiple settings changes, or you can use the shortcut for SNOW MODE. Either way the driving experience would be the same.

The only other thing you get when using a shortcut like that (potentially, and based on implementation) is an icon that lets you know you are actually in SNOW MODE. Most implementations like this also save that mode for your next drive, so if you stop and start again in a snowstorm, you would already be in SNOW MODE.

 

[cyure]

Right, but in an EV truck using Snow Mode also is a short-cut to reduced Regen PLUS throttle response, which is important in an EV. It's just a grouping of configurations setting that would be commonly used, based on conditions. So, you could get there with multiple settings changes, or you can use the shortcut for SNOW MODE. Either way the driving experience would be the same.

The only other thing you get when using a shortcut like that (potentially, and based on implementation) is an icon that lets you know you are actually in SNOW MODE. Most implementations like this also save that mode for your next drive, so if you stop and start again in a snowstorm, you would already be in SNOW MODE.

Coming from an ICE Wrangler I have so much to learn. I feel like I need a lesson before I pick up my Scout.

That just made me think. It would be nice if Scout had not just a user manual but videos that could be accessed after we place our order but before pick up so those of us who have never driven an EV before can get some helpful information.

 

[R1TVT]

Coming from an ICE Wrangler I have so much to learn. I feel like I need a lesson before I pick up my Scout.

That just made me think. It would be nice if Scout had not just a user manual but videos that could be accessed after we place our order but before pick up so those of us who have never driven an EV before can get some helpful information.

I'm guessing that it most Scout modes will be very intuitive and easy to use, but videos are a great idea (and could be played from the infotainment screen / user manual.

Sorta like this! https://stories.rivian.com/drive-modes

 

[cyure]

I'm guessing that it most Scout modes will be very intuitive and easy to use, but videos are a great idea (and could be played from the infotainment screen / user manual.

Sorta like this! https://stories.rivian.com/drive-modes

Yes! Like that. We need videos like that.

I do want them in advance of taking delivery, but being able to play them on the screen when I have questions, and am safely stopped, would be great! I know it’s going to be a learning curve going from, at that time, a 15 year old Wrangler to a Scout, and I’m so excited for the change!

 

[cyure]

Okay now I have a question. I really want to do factory pick up. Unless something changes, I’m planning on getting the Harvester. When driving home if I’m not comfortable yet charging, can I make it home the 800 miles just stoping to fill up the Harvester?