Living with EV

[Callsign_DISCO]

Since I am not an EV fan I have been watching a ton of videos on the Youtubes to try and get a sense of what it is like to live with EV's and I am focusing on videos from people who are EV fans, but after nearly a week of this my impression is honestly mixed at best.

Thermal limits on chargers and batteries effecting charge rate, stations not producing rated power, stations being inop,, etc. Seeing cases where Rivian R1T's are stopping every 90-ish miles to go from nearly discharged to maybe 50% because the battery thermal management is not very good, coupled with hot ambient temps and driving loads.

This is the kind of thing that gives me pause TBH. I enjoy road trips but mostly because I get to see the country while in motion - the idea of stopping for 30-50 minutes every 90 minutes is not in any way attractive. Do people rally have time for this?

So for the more experienced EV folks out there, what are the experiences you have had that help offset these stories because it is a bit concerning - or have you just adjusted your expectations for traveling?

 

[Chaz26]

I have an EV (Tesla Model 3). Firstly, everyone is different but for me, the majority of my driving day to day is always within 200 miles (usually a lot less) from my house. So for commuting to work, going shopping, visiting friends and family and normal day to day stuff there are no range issues. I charge to what I need overnight and it is ready to go in the morning. Every month we tend to visit family who are about 220 miles away. I am able to make it on one charge but arrive very low and I only have a wall outlet at their house. However, we normally stop at 1 rest stop regardless of whether we take the Tesla or our gas powered Jeep. I just plug it in at the services and by the time we've gone inside and come back out it is more than ready to go so no issues there.

Now we do occasionally do much longer trips but even these are not too bad. We went from south PA to the Outer Banks, NC in summer (450 miles or so). Again we have to stop for lunch and a pee break on the way anyways so we set off at 100% and usually get to a charger around 5-10%. By the time we've been inside, had something to eat (which we'd do regardless of EV or ICE car) the car is already back up to around 80%. Then we just need one quick top up for 5 minutes to make the rest of the journey. For comparison, another family member of ours who was coming along in their gas car who lives by us got there less than 10 minutes ahead of us since they still had to stop for rest stops along the way as well. Not bad for an 8 hour plus journey. I've also gone up to Quebec in the Tesla in winter and will be doing so again in February. Obviously range is lower, but again we can get a good 4 hours of driving in before needing our first stop. Then we need a 15 minute break anyways. It'll depend on the EV and hopefully the Scout will have a good charging curve, but I tend to find 15 minute stops get about 2 hours of driving rather than 30-50 minutes to only get 90 minutes of driving.

Now, if you're doing 1,000 mile road trips every week and are in a massive hurry to get there as fast as possible with no rest stops (which most people who seem to bash EVs seem to be somehow doing) then maybe it would be an issue, or if you are trying to tow 10,000 pounds over hundreds of miles on a regular basis, I'd probably say get a diesel (or the range extender for Scout depending on how that all works - I'm just getting the EV only version). But day to day and a monthly 500 mile road trip shouldn't be an issue. A gas car is still quicker if you are just trying to get somewhere as fast as possible that's over 300 miles away but, if you do like to stop for breaks, which I do regardless of EV or gas then it shouldn't be a major issue.

I've also never had issues with charging stations, perhaps I'm spoiled with the Tesla network, but hopefully Scout will have that available along with all other networks. It's also an additional 3 years until release so I would hope the infrastructure would be more reliable and widespread by then too.

Also overall, the amount of time I save not going to gas stations day to day (never mind the money savings) easily outweighs the occasional longer charging stop when doing big road trips.

 

[pwrofgrayskull]

I have an EV (Tesla Model 3). Firstly, everyone is different but for me, the majority of my driving day to day is always within 200 miles (usually a lot less) from my house. So for commuting to work, going shopping, visiting friends and family and normal day to day stuff there are no range issues. I charge to what I need overnight and it is ready to go in the morning. Every month we tend to visit family who are about 220 miles away. I am able to make it on one charge but arrive very low and I only have a wall outlet at their house. However, we normally stop at 1 rest stop regardless of whether we take the Tesla or our gas powered Jeep. I just plug it in at the services and by the time we've gone inside and come back out it is more than ready to go so no issues there.

Now we do occasionally do much longer trips but even these are not too bad. We went from south PA to the Outer Banks, NC in summer (450 miles or so). Again we have to stop for lunch and a pee break on the way anyways so we set off at 100% and usually get to a charger around 5-10%. By the time we've been inside, had something to eat (which we'd do regardless of EV or ICE car) the car is already back up to around 80%. Then we just need one quick top up for 5 minutes to make the rest of the journey. For comparison, another family member of ours who was coming along in their gas car who lives by us got there less than 10 minutes ahead of us since they still had to stop for rest stops along the way as well. Not bad for an 8 hour plus journey. I've also gone up to Quebec in the Tesla in winter and will be doing so again in February. Obviously range is lower, but again we can get a good 4 hours of driving in before needing our first stop. Then we need a 15 minute break anyways. It'll depend on the EV and hopefully the Scout will have a good charging curve, but I tend to find 15 minute stops get about 2 hours of driving rather than 30-50 minutes to only get 90 minutes of driving.

Now, if you're doing 1,000 mile road trips every week and are in a massive hurry to get there as fast as possible with no rest stops (which most people who seem to bash EVs seem to be somehow doing) then maybe it would be an issue, or if you are trying to tow 10,000 over hundreds of miles on a regular basis, I'd probably say get a diesel (or the range extended for Scout depending on how that all works - I'm just getting the EV only version). But day to day and a monthly 500 mile road trip shouldn't be an issue. A gas car is still quicker if you are just trying to get somewhere as fast as possible that's over 300 miles away but, if you do like to stop for breaks, which I do regardless of EV or gas then it shouldn't be a major issue.

I've also never had issues with charging stations, perhaps I'm spoiled with the Tesla network, but hopefully Scout will have that available along with all other networks. It's also an additional 3 years until release so I would hope the infrastructure would be more reliable and widespread by then too.

Also overall, the amount of time I save not going to gas stations day to day (never mind the money savings) easily outweighs the occasional longer charging stop when doing big road trips.

This is helpful, thank you for sharing.

 

[wheelsee]

So I've owned EVs for almost 3 years at this point(2.5 years with a Mustang Mach-E and the last 6 months with a Kia EV9).

We've road tripped both and contrary to popular belief...not having access to the Tesla network is fine. Literally zero issues. We wake up every morning charged to 80% which in the Kia is about 280 miles. When road tripping you're going to focus on charging to 80%. So that for us means every 3-4 hours you stop and charge up(takes about 15-20 minutes at a 350kw charger, very common to find at Electrify America stations).

If stopping every 3-4 hours is an issue then I don't think an EV is for you.

 

[shnngns]

I had a Tesla Model Y for a little bit and did a UT to WA and back road trip with it. Honestly stopping and charging wasn't bad at all. We had to stop and eat and use the restrooms anyway regardless of driving an EV or ICE. We didn't run into any issues with Tesla Superchargers. The ONLY time I thought this could get annoying was on the way home and one of our charging stops there was a wait. We grabbed our food and waited....and waited....aaaaand waited. I think total we waited for 40 minutes and then we could charge for 20ish minutes. An EV makes sense for me for around town trips. The most I travel around town is 20 miles round trip. Longer trips would be 80ish miles. I would have a Rivian right now except for our adventures and going deep into the backcountry and deserts. I was concerned with where to charge and ultimately opted for my Bronco Raptor but the Scout Harvester is a game changer for me if executed the way we all hope.

 

[chucchinchilla]

After 10 years we went from a 2014 BMW X3 to a new Volkswagen ID.4. Reality was 99% of miles covered over the last 2 years was within the Bay Area. Another way to put it: 99% of our fill ups were at our local gas station meaning those fill ups could convert to home charging (or in my wife's case free charging at work) so it was an ideal use case. We're now 9K into EV ownership and the adjustment curve has been minimal given how fundamentally different everything is beyond just the EV powertrain.

Car has taken one big road trip up to Mendocino and it went without a hitch. Basically drove 190 miles to the first charger which was about 3.5h of driving (car has 255mi range). We then used that time to eat dinner and use the facilities. The only adjustment here was I researched where the chargers were ahead of the trip vs the typical exit the highway and pull into whatever gas station you see. Perfectly reasonable IMO.

RE: Constantly stopping on a road trip. Scout says the EV will have 350mi range. According to Google Maps it would take me 5.5h to drive 340mi to Los Angeles. Adding one stop in for bathroom/coffee/stretching legs for a 30m charge seems reasonable HOWEVER that assumes you can pull up and charge right away which isn't always the case. Overall if a road trip can be done with 1...maybe 2 charge stops that's good but anything beyond that and I'm probably flying anyway.

 

[MC242x]

About four months ago I started a new position for my job. Unfortunately, after nearly five years of working 100% remote I now had to be in the office four days per week - about 20 miles from home. I quickly realized I needed another car, so I ended up leasing a 2024 EV6 to test the waters of owning an EV. I have not installed a home charger - since my work has plenty of low-cost charging stations available. I can honestly say that after 5000 miles in the last four months I'm never going back to an ICE vehicle. Now if I didn't have the option to charge at work, I'd install my own L2 charger at home (but that would require me to actually clean out my garage and use it as...well...a garage!). There have been a few times when I needed to charge near home, and use a DC rapid charger from EA (my Kia came with 1000KwH of charge). I can charge my car in about 15-20 min there when needed. I have yet to take a long road trip, but do anticipate driving from San Diego to Phoenix and back sometime in the next few months so I'll have a better idea of how that goes soon. Supposedly in January Kia will have access to Tesla superchargers, which will also help on the longer trips. I just love the EV driving experience and can't go back to ICE. I owned a 2021 Bronco for two years and while it was fun, it was also a total gas guzzler, noisy, uncomfortable, and just very crude. I'm hoping the Scout will be the best of both worlds - we will see!

 

[LastDayScout]

I will preface that I live on the east coast, so I know the distances are not what they are out west. I have had EVs as daily drivers since 2019. In that time I have made about 10 trips that required DC fast charging (Supercharging). I have a level 2 charger at home that my wife mainly uses for her car. I also have a charger at work that I use daily. It’s not necessary that I use it every day, but since it’s there why not? Level 2 home charging is the meat and potatoes. Fast charging is more of a road trip/emergency thing. Some of those fast chargers are better than others. Electrify America sucks for example. Yes, some of them are vandalized. But, I have not encountered that personally. There is also the learning curve for folks that have EVs such as the Chevy Bolt that cannot take advantage of really powerful chargers like 350kw. You will often see someone tying up the higher level charger with a vehicle that is not capable of accepting that charge rate. It’s a pain, but this is all still relatively new tech and there is a learning curve. I guess some people still put 93 octane in vehicles that recommend 87 because of whatever reason. To sum it up…if you can charge at home or work you’re going to love EVs!

 

[Logan]

I've had a PHEV for the past 2.5 years, and have done ~16k miles all electric (out of about 27k miles total).

My wife was worried about an EV, but was open to the idea of a PHEV. Now having lived with it, I don't think we'll own another vehicle without a plug. And the next around town car will likely be an EV. Although, we are still thinking of keeping "something that burns gas" for the next 5-10 years.

We have an L2 charger at home (I'd argue those are potentially more important for smaller battery vehicles. The L2 means we sometimes get 2-3 charges in one day, vs just 1 overnight charge on an L1), and we use it all the time.

Our PHEV is about 1/3 the cost when its run on electricity, as it is on gasoline. Compared to our other vehicle the difference is even larger (my old jeep gets 14mpg, so a 20 mile trip is something like $7, while the PHEV it costs like $0.85).

My wife really likes the lower cost of running, and how she almost never has to fill with gas (meaning, every day she starts with a "full tank" of battery, good for about 30 miles).

The reason we're still thinking PHEV/EREV for the trip vehicle, is really just because I don't have high confidence that the charging situation for the rural WA/OR/ID/UT areas we travel when we go to visit family will have good/reliable charging infrastructure. I assume this will get better over time, but some of the towns/areas we're passing through are quite small (we were stranded once for 3 days when a fuel pump died, in a town of 1500 people).

The EREV options are quite appealing to us in the mean time. It lets you do 99% of my year round driving on EV mode with 150 miles of EV range, and might enable us to run on just gas for those longer trips which is why I've reserved a Harvester. But depending on how charging infrastructure and times improve, I might change my reservation.

 

[Garbone]

We have a 21' Job 1 MachE Bought in February or 21 that replaced our 06 Mustang and a 22 MachE that replaced our Explorer.

Daily use is better than any ICE we have owned as I installed my own Level 2 charger and only pay 13 pennies a KW. The best part is just park an plug in and in the morning your good for a few days to a week of local driving. Now getting pan handled at the pump.

We each do about 1000 miles a month and pay about $35 in electricity.

We have the smaller 230 mile packs so road tripping you stop every 2 hours or so for 20 to 40 minutes, really not that bad.

Took the 21 from Florida to Maine and back on vacation. 4 days drive each direction but we stopped to visit in DC on the way up and Virginia on the way back. If you set to navigate to the most efficient you end up cutting across some rural state roads and not on interstate highways, much higher range under 60 mph.

We went across the Carolina's and Virginia , up thru Maryland ( really fun driving there) to Pennsylvania. Did highways north of that as things get more congested up in them parts. Did the Blue Ridge Parkway on the way south, pretty awesome. Funny thing is we had 500KW of free charging as we were early adopters so the trip was pretty much on free fuel.

That said, for a day trip to Savannah we top up to 100 the night before, book north at 80ish mph, hit the last FPL charger at the border for 30 minute and the blast up to Savannah, nearly 400 miles until we hit Pooler and charge for 15 minutes for the around town stuff. Honestly, tooling around a city even at 30 percent state of charge will keep you for a few days, no worries.

As far as thermal load management, never think about it. Old Leafs and Bolts had issues. Range loose in cold weather is a thing but I live in Florida so it is not.

 

[pwrofgrayskull]

About four months ago I started a new position for my job. Unfortunately, after nearly five years of working 100% remote I now had to be in the office four days per week - about 20 miles from home. I quickly realized I needed another car, so I ended up leasing a 2024 EV6 to test the waters of owning an EV. I have not installed a home charger - since my work has plenty of low-cost charging stations available. I can honestly say that after 5000 miles in the last four months I'm never going back to an ICE vehicle. Now if I didn't have the option to charge at work, I'd install my own L2 charger at home (but that would require me to actually clean out my garage and use it as...well...a garage!). There have been a few times when I needed to charge near home, and use a DC rapid charger from EA (my Kia came with 1000KwH of charge). I can charge my car in about 15-20 min there when needed. I have yet to take a long road trip, but do anticipate driving from San Diego to Phoenix and back sometime in the next few months so I'll have a better idea of how that goes soon. Supposedly in January Kia will have access to Tesla superchargers, which will also help on the longer trips. I just love the EV driving experience and can't go back to ICE. I owned a 2021 Bronco for two years and while it was fun, it was also a total gas guzzler, noisy, uncomfortable, and just very crude. I'm hoping the Scout will be the best of both worlds - we will see!

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Be sure the check back in after the Phoenix trip! I’d love to hear how it went.

 

[Rampy]

I had a Tesla Model Y for a little bit and did a UT to WA and back road trip with it. Honestly stopping and charging wasn't bad at all. We had to stop and eat and use the restrooms anyway regardless of driving an EV or ICE. We didn't run into any issues with Tesla Superchargers. The ONLY time I thought this could get annoying was on the way home and one of our charging stops there was a wait. We grabbed our food and waited....and waited....aaaaand waited. I think total we waited for 40 minutes and then we could charge for 20ish minutes. An EV makes sense for me for around town trips. The most I travel around town is 20 miles round trip. Longer trips would be 80ish miles. I would have a Rivian right now except for our adventures and going deep into the backcountry and deserts. I was concerned with where to charge and ultimately opted for my Bronco Raptor but the Scout Harvester is a game changer for me if executed the way we all hope.

Does Moab have enough fast chargers for a large EV event?

 

[pwrofgrayskull]

Does Moab have enough fast chargers for a large EV event?

I’m not really sure. I see there are more than a half dozen charging stations in town according to maps, but no idea how many chargers may be at each station. I’ve been to Moab more times than I can count, but have never once noticed a charging station. With that said, I was never there with an EV or looking for a station so take it with a grain of salt. I’d say it also very much depends on how big of an event you are talking about. When I first saw the question, my gut reaction was no but it does depend on several factors.

 

[Rampy]

I’m not really sure. I see there are more than a half dozen charging stations in town according to maps, but no idea how many chargers may be at each station. I’ve been to Moab more times than I can count, but have never once noticed a charging station. With that said, I was never there with an EV or looking for a station so take it with a grain of salt. I’d say it also very much depends on how big of an event you are talking about. When I first saw the question, my gut reaction was no but it does depend on several factors.

I’ve never even thought about looking, we were camping and no EV chargers or even electricity where we camped

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

Charging centers in Moab, UT:

 

[R1TVT]

Since I am not an EV fan

Please explain?

Rivian R1T's are stopping every 90-ish miles to go from nearly discharged to maybe 50%

Sounds like you are getting disinformation from any number of unreliable sources, as this is highly inaccurate.

As one example while road tripping, I drove my 1st gen 2022 R1T from Mass through CT, through NY, over the George Washington Bridge into Fort Lee, NJ this summer without stopping once (on the large battery pack, not a MAX pack). The truck has 20's with AT Pirelli Scorpions (Rivian has more efficient wheel & tire options available to extend range. 20's are the least efficient option with AT's FYI). This is a 4+ hour drive without a stop.

Using ABRP as a factual and reliable tool for route planning (and for verification), I could have stopped for 11 minutes in Harrison NY to charge from 25% SOC to 50% SOC (and arrived in Fort Lee NJ with a 40% SOC), but since I was getting lunch in Fort Lee, I skipped the charge stop, parked at an EA Station in Fort Lee, and arrived with a lower SOC (since I was eating). I topped-up to 80% during lunch, before continuing south to Annapolis.

 

[Callsign_DISCO]

Please explain?


Sounds like you are getting disinformation from any number of unreliable sources, as this is highly inaccurate.

As one example while road tripping, I drove my 1st gen 2022 R1T from Mass through CT, through NY, over the George Washington Bridge into Fort Lee, NJ this summer without stopping once (on the large battery pack, not a MAX pack). The truck has 20's with AT Pirelli Scorpions (Rivian has more efficient wheel & tire options available to extend range. 20's are the least efficient option with AT's FYI). This is a 4+ hour drive without a stop.

Using ABRP as a factual and reliable tool for route planning (and for verification), I could have stopped for 11 minutes in Harrison NY to charge from 25% SOC to 50% SOC (and arrived in Fort Lee NJ with a 40% SOC), but since I was getting lunch in Fort Lee, I skipped the charge stop, parked at an EA Station in Fort Lee, and arrived with a lower SOC (since I was eating). I topped-up to 80% during lunch, before continuing south to Annapolis.


View attachment 3714

Since the reveal and and in support of making my decision to place a reservation for a Traveler Harvester I have watched dozens of YT's from guys who are clearly EV owners and fans and they were seeing repeated issues where thermal management for the vehicle (R1T, R1S, Hummer EV, and Cybertruck), the station (EA, Tesla, Rivian and others), or both, was limiting charge rate, in some cases signficantly - specifically Out of Spec Reviews, TFLEV, Rivian Overland among many others.

These are actual EV owners and enthusiasts providing what I assume are just honest experiences. I have focused on reviews from the last year or so to try and ensure I am seeing recent/current experiences with respect to battery tech, infrastructure, etc.

My previous lack of enthusiasm for EV has centered on capability (specifically range and towing), edited to add infrastructure, and ability to be away from the grid as compared to ICE, which has admittedly been improving, and to be clear with Harvester I think Scout has put this to bed to my way of thinking/desires. This was compounded by living in CA where the government has basically outlawed sale of ICE vehicles in the not too distant future.

I am not a fan of mandates but am a fan of incentives and I suspect this is where things will be headed over the next 4 years due to election results in the US.

 

[R1TVT]

I take everything I see on YT with a grain of salt - you are getting content from YT'er's looking for clicks = ($$$ + drama).

I have seen both TFL and Out of Spec R1T run range test videos, both TFL and Out of Spec have been consistent concerning Rivian's range estimates and accuracy, including decent content on realistic towing

(

)


One of your sources (Out of Spec) took the exact same configuration R1T (that I own personally) on my exact wheel and tire set for a range test on YouTube. They saw ~290 miles and drove for 4 hours and 20 minutes at an efficiency number of 2.33 miles/kWh. Total energy consumed was 124kWh. Air temps were low 50's I believe.

 

[Callsign_DISCO]

What I am telling you is that I have spent hours and hours evaluating the information I can find and it is not all rainbows and unicorns - it also not purely bad news. This is why I asked for, and am grateful for getting, some real world experience to aid in my understanding.

The fact is that on YT and in print there are EV truck tests that reflect well, and there are tests that reflect poorly, but the real world cross country trip reviews are what I am focusing on and here is where there are repeated issues with thermal issues for the vehicle, the station, or both - along with stations being inop (but unknown by the planning apps) or low charge vehicles at high charge chargers etc. All of which creates issues with time and convenience compared to ICE.

Since I like to travel by road this is exceedingly important to me. Because I like to offroad, camp, overland whatever the hipsters are calling it this week, this becomes even more important.

These are not, IMO, unreliable sources, these are EV owners and evangelists who are sharing the good, the bad and the ugly - which I appreciate.

I am not seeking out bad experiences to validate my previous disinterest in EV's, I am looking for info to help make me more comfortable with dropping $60-80K on a vehicle that is not like anything I am accustomed to after nearly 40 years of driving experience.

 

[pwrofgrayskull]

Please explain?


Sounds like you are getting disinformation from any number of unreliable sources, as this is highly inaccurate.

As one example while road tripping, I drove my 1st gen 2022 R1T from Mass through CT, through NY, over the George Washington Bridge into Fort Lee, NJ this summer without stopping once (on the large battery pack, not a MAX pack). The truck has 20's with AT Pirelli Scorpions (Rivian has more efficient wheel & tire options available to extend range. 20's are the least efficient option with AT's FYI). This is a 4+ hour drive without a stop.

Using ABRP as a factual and reliable tool for route planning (and for verification), I could have stopped for 11 minutes in Harrison NY to charge from 25% SOC to 50% SOC (and arrived in Fort Lee NJ with a 40% SOC), but since I was getting lunch in Fort Lee, I skipped the charge stop, parked at an EA Station in Fort Lee, and arrived with a lower SOC (since I was eating). I topped-up to 80% during lunch, before continuing south to Annapolis.


View attachment 3714

Have you found that what this ABRP tool predicts ends up matching your trips in the real world? Or does it simply give you a roundabout idea of what you’ll experience? Does it factor in current weather as well (temperature in particular)? Is it pretty necessary to carefully plan each trip out instead of hopping in and winging it?