What's the deal with software issues in many newer expensive EVs?

[Chavannigans]

If they had support for a Garmin watch, I might actually wear it. I got most of my launching out of my system back in 2022 during the first month of ownership LOL...

You'll have to get in line behind the other exotic smartwatch owners. lol

But seriously. Wassym responds to comments pretty often and its so cool to see a software executive talking to the end users about their experiences and requests.

Make your voice heard and request Garmin watch support as well!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivian/comments/1pndeqd/launch_mode_is_coming_to_gen_1

 

[Chavannigans]

Thank you for linking the article! I was under the impression that Rivian was just supplying the framework and it would still need extra software stacked on top of it that they were not responsible for. I see in the article they are explicitly testing Scouts though. Appreciate the info and sources!

This is really reductive, and I will be showing my age a bit, but I just think of it as a Winamp skin.

The software beneath is all the same; the only thing that changes is a the UX.

 

[dreamweaver]

This is really reductive, and I will be showing my age a bit, but I just think of it as a Winamp skin.

The software beneath is all the same; the only thing that changes is a the UX.

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Man I just had a flashback................

 

[oldgeeksguide]

Our Volvo is the same- each key is assigned to a profile and it will default to the profile of whoever accesses the car first (even if they open a non driver door). It can be annoying sometimes but not a huge issue.

This is a good example of why we need buttons. The folks who designed that software imagined what people do and essentially imposed that view on their software design. My wife and I typically both carry our keys and there is essentially 0 correlation between who gets in the car first and who drives. We have nice simple seat memory buttons in the door that we can hit even before we start to get in and it works great. If it followed the algorithm you described, it would be a constant source of irritation. It can actually be difficult to get in when the seat is adjusted differently, so if I had to fiddle with the touch screen every time it guessed wrong (half the time), I’d be looking for another car. It may seem like a small thing but it would be a constant frustration that’s completely driven by an unnecessary poor design decision.

 

[Crazychicken563]

This is really reductive, and I will be showing my age a bit, but I just think of it as a Winamp skin.

The software beneath is all the same; the only thing that changes is a the UX.

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Hah! No worries, I was using winamp skins in 2010

 

[oldgeeksguide]

View attachment 12146

You'll have to get in line behind the other exotic smartwatch owners. lol

But seriously. Wassym responds to comments pretty often and its so cool to see a software executive talking to the end users about their experiences and requests.

Make your voice heard and request Garmin watch support as well!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivian/comments/1pndeqd/launch_mode_is_coming_to_gen_1

So, what does it mean to have your watch supported? Use it as a key?

 

[Crazychicken563]

Our Volvo is the same- each key is assigned to a profile and it will default to the profile of whoever accesses the car first (even if they open a non driver door). It can be annoying sometimes but not a huge issue.

Same with the Polestar, and we also have the same workaround of seat memory positions to get around it choosing the wrong driver.

What makes it an annoying hassle is that it takes the car literally MINUTES to switch profiles. So if it swaps from mine to hers when I'm driving, I have to wait for it to load all her settings (minutes) and then select my profile in the UI and wait for it to load all me settings again (more minutes)

Suddenly we've spent 3-4 minutes sitting in the driveway when we should have been well on our way already. Slow hardware paired with poor software is what really kills the experience.

 

[cyure]

Same with the Polestar, and we also have the same workaround of seat memory positions to get around it choosing the wrong driver.

What makes it an annoying hassle is that it takes the car literally MINUTES to switch profiles. So if it swaps from mine to hers when I'm driving, I have to wait for it to load all her settings (minutes) and then select my profile in the UI and wait for it to load all me settings again (more minutes)

Suddenly we've spent 3-4 minutes sitting in the driveway when we should have been well on our way already. Slow hardware paired with poor software is what really kills the experience.

I literally turn my phone off getting into the Supra when my husband is driving and wait till we are on the road to turn it back on so it’s not trying to figure out which one to grab.

 

[dreamweaver]

This is a good example of why we need buttons. The folks who designed that software imagined what people do and essentially imposed that view on their software design. My wife and I typically both carry our keys and there is essentially 0 correlation between who gets in the car first and who drives. We have nice simple seat memory buttons in the door that we can hit even before we start to get in and it works great. If it followed the algorithm you described, it would be a constant source of irritation. It can actually be difficult to get in when the seat is adjusted differently, so if I had to fiddle with the touch screen every time it guessed wrong (half the time), I’d be looking for another car. It may seem like a small thing but it would be a constant frustration that’s completely driven by an unnecessary poor design decision.

Our Lincoln also stores two drivers, all adjustments as well as a third on the drivers door buttons. However, it only selects the "driver" by the key-fob that was on the person that opens the drivers door only.

 

[dreamweaver]

Same with the Polestar, and we also have the same workaround of seat memory positions to get around it choosing the wrong driver.

What makes it an annoying hassle is that it takes the car literally MINUTES to switch profiles. So if it swaps from mine to hers when I'm driving, I have to wait for it to load all her settings (minutes) and then select my profile in the UI and wait for it to load all me settings again (more minutes)

Suddenly we've spent 3-4 minutes sitting in the driveway when we should have been well on our way already. Slow hardware paired with poor software is what really kills the experience.

Our Lincoln also stores two drivers, all adjustments as well as a third on the drivers door buttons. However, it only selects the "driver" by the key-fob that was on the person that opens the drivers door only.

 

[J Alynn]

All this recent talk about how much the Scout will cost got me thinking about all the software issues I've been seeing in expensive cars.

Polestar 2 - I own one - the software is really average and have dealt with years of issues. I could easily post a wall of text about the issues I've had, but want to keep this post focused.
Polestar 3 - Widespread L2 charging failures, Car won't unlock, plethora of software issues. Many people are seeking buy-backs / early lease ends from what I'm seeing
Lucid Air -

Fisker Karma - Notorious for poor software -> bankrupt

What is the deal with these really expensive cars having poor software?
Lucid - I kind of understand since it's a startup, but for a 100k price tag it's ridiculous seeing the problems described in that video. (BTW my Polestar 2 experiences like 95% of every issue he complained about)
Fisker - same thing, but lots of other issues with that company in general.
Polestar - Considering it's a subsidiary of Geely -> Volvo I'm shocked to see such poor software execution.

As far as Scout is concerned regarding this discussion, I'm still really excited about the software's potential. I have yet to hear that many complaints about modern Rivian software which presumably Scout is built on top of (though I believe there were early issues that were resolved, but not I'm not that in the loop). As far as I can tell from the various UX videos released, it seems like they are taking it very seriously to develop the UX in house and for it to be intuitive and pleasant to use.

However.

After seeing how badly Polestar / Volvo have dropped the ball with software, I no longer put very much weight on the sentiment that "being backed by a large company = good software". Just because Scout has the resources of VW doesn't mean that is a free pass to performant, bug free software.

What do you all think about these observations?
Are expensive cars just getting a 'free pass' on buggy software just because they are 'new'?
Has Scout announced who is developing their software? UX is not equal to the actual execution of the software stack. Is development in house? 3rd party? Overseas?
Is there any news about who is developing the Android / iOS app?

I think it’s free past. Wealthy people don’t like others knowing they made bad decisions so they’ll suck it up rather than announcing they screwed up. I’ve seen it first hand in the building industry when people pick cheap builders who have a reputation and still just pay to fix all the problems that arise. Look at Jag/Range Rover. They’ve been plagued for years with clerical/.tech issues and wealthy and wannabe wealthy snatch them up to keep up with the Jones’s. I had acquaintances with MB’s and the cars are in shop more than on road and lease ends and they get another. It’s crazy

 

[J Alynn]

Is this from experience, or anecdotal? I have never had an OTA fail, or create 3 new issues all at once.

There have been updates that include bug-fixes (like you would see with any new SW release), but usually the bugs are little things that happen in "rare cases". I think everyone here will be pretty pleased with the OTA updates if Scout follows along Rivian's pathway FWIW. There are very few depreciating assets that I have owned that have gotten better with time (with no effort on my part). The Rivian partnership is a big selling point to me. I've gotten new drive modes, new interior lighting options, better suspension characteristics, more apps, added streaming / Googlecast, etc. etc. etc.

For the record, I think one of the "bugs" that I experienced personally was in one of the earlier releases for Gen 1 trucks back in 2022 when the screens went blank on me. Kind of freaky when it happened, but nothing altered the trucks behavior - you couldn't see anything on the infotainment screens. A hard re-set fixed the problem and a patch was issued very shortly afterwards. The only other bug that I can remember and have seen (and noticed) was with settings not "sticking" after asking the truck to remember them.

Beyond just the OTA's themselves, Rivian seems to have a very calculated and hardened roll-out process for releases. I see Scout benefitting a LOT from Rivian's experiences based on using Zonal architecture and their partnership, but time will tell.

EDIT: Forgot to add the biggest OTA updates are related to battery optimizations!

I’m always curious with OTA. Like how does OTA provide lighting upgrades or changes. Are they just base loading things to start then “upgrading” occasionally to make buyers feel good? I just don’t know how one changes lighting or certain other actions via OTA. I get a lot of it but some aspects leave me wondering how or even why? Can you shed some LIGHT on this please

 

[J Alynn]

I suspect a lot of the issues stem from moving EVERYTHING behind a screen instead of keeping buttons, or at least doing a slower transition away from buttons. There's a LOT of coding to get right. Adding app access for stuff complicated things. My bigger worry is security. If your bank can't even keep hackers out, what happens when someone decides to really target vehicles that are barely secured?

The time will certainly come

 

[J Alynn]

This is a good example of why we need buttons. The folks who designed that software imagined what people do and essentially imposed that view on their software design. My wife and I typically both carry our keys and there is essentially 0 correlation between who gets in the car first and who drives. We have nice simple seat memory buttons in the door that we can hit even before we start to get in and it works great. If it followed the algorithm you described, it would be a constant source of irritation. It can actually be difficult to get in when the seat is adjusted differently, so if I had to fiddle with the touch screen every time it guessed wrong (half the time), I’d be looking for another car. It may seem like a small thing but it would be a constant frustration that’s completely driven by an unnecessary poor design decision.

I agree with your outlook

 

[Chavannigans]

This is a good example of why we need buttons. The folks who designed that software imagined what people do and essentially imposed that view on their software design. My wife and I typically both carry our keys and there is essentially 0 correlation between who gets in the car first and who drives. We have nice simple seat memory buttons in the door that we can hit even before we start to get in and it works great. If it followed the algorithm you described, it would be a constant source of irritation. It can actually be difficult to get in when the seat is adjusted differently, so if I had to fiddle with the touch screen every time it guessed wrong (half the time), I’d be looking for another car. It may seem like a small thing but it would be a constant frustration that’s completely driven by an unnecessary poor design decision.

I think a cheap and effective solution could be an NFC reader in the center console or inside of both front seats if there aren’t buttons on the drivers door, where they should be.

Just hold your phone near it when you get in and it can adjust things using your driver profile.

 

[Chavannigans]

I’m always curious with OTA. Like how does OTA provide lighting upgrades or changes. Are they just base loading things to start then “upgrading” occasionally to make buyers feel good? I just don’t know how one changes lighting or certain other actions via OTA. I get a lot of it but some aspects leave me wondering how or even why? Can you shed some LIGHT on this please

I would wager the hardware was already there but users requested added functionality that would expand beyond basic On/Off functions with just some software changes.

There is also stuff like the auto-levelling used for camping mode or whatever it’s called. That wasn’t planned, but users requested it. The hardware was was already there and they added the feature via software.

If I am not mistaken some auto manufacturers built vehicles with Matrix Headlights that weren’t enabled until they got regulatory approval.

That’s the beauty of software defined vehicles. Added functionality doesn’t necessarily mean anything else is required to enable it.

 

[R1TVT]

I would wager the hardware was already there but users requested added functionality that would expand beyond basic On/Off functions with just some software changes.

There is also stuff like the auto-levelling used for camping mode or whatever it’s called. That wasn’t planned, but users requested it. The hardware was was already there and they added the feature via software.

If I am not mistaken some auto manufacturers built vehicles with Matrix Headlights that weren’t enabled until they got regulatory approval.

That’s the beauty of software defined vehicles. Added functionality doesn’t necessarily mean anything else is required to enable it.

Yes, correct. And you can make changes to code within certain modules, like the BMS for example, to do things like improve efficiency based on certain parameters that could be measured and used as inputs (like ambient temp or battery temp, for example). You can combine configuration settings like LOW regen, traction control ON & other drive & ride feel / suspension characteristics to create brand new settings like SNOW mode or SOFT SAND mode (for example). You could refine & optimize things like measurement/distance from a DCFC to optimize pre-conditioning for charging. You could entirely switch up or update the U/I. The possibilities are really endless if the vehicle is SW defined and the SW is built, updated and & controlled by the OEM - provided of course that the HW can respond to those SW changes!

 

[J Alynn]

Yes, correct. And you can make changes to code within certain modules, like the BMS for example, to do things like improve efficiency based on certain parameters that could be measured and used as inputs (like ambient temp or battery temp, for example). You can combine configuration settings like LOW regen, traction control ON & other drive & ride feel / suspension characteristics to create brand new settings like SNOW mode or SOFT SAND mode (for example). You could refine & optimize things like measurement/distance from a DCFC to optimize pre-conditioning for charging. You could entirely switch up or update the U/I. The possibilities are really endless if the vehicle is SW defined and the SW is built, updated and & controlled by the OEM - provided of course that the HW can respond to those SW changes!

Most of this makes sense the light thing I assumed they were capable of more but just wondered why they didn’t open more right off the bat. I assume they add elements that just have the ability to expand in “stages”

 

[R1TVT]

Some things might be intentionally held back, other existing items are optimized & some (like the 2 new drive modes) might be built after the vehicle is delivered. Getting everything into a SW package immediately is a huge effort and massive lift (particularly in the case of Rivian with the first launch). At some point, you call the SW "done enough" for production and launch, but it is never done, and always changing and improving for the most part.

My U/I now is completely different from my U/I at launch. The way you interact with the U/I can be improved based on the most commonly used actions, etc. Its really quite amazing when you think about it. Rivian uses things like the Halloween drop to show the art of the possible and probably to "show off" some of their design expertise too.

Updates to the app are also done with changes to the SW in the truck. When I first got the truck I could not use gear guard to watch what was happening LIVE FROM THE APP. Gear guard would just capture events and store them to play when you got back to the truck. Now you can open the app and get live views all around your truck if you want. There's been many improvements. Here's just a sample of some recent updates this year:

Key Recent Updates & Features:

• 2025.46 (Dec 2025): Customizable Driver Display (Autonomy/Map view), Co-Steer for Gen 2 (adjust lane position), Enhanced Highway Assist (longer hands-free), audio/bass improvements, bug fixes.
• 2025.38 (Oct 2025): Plug & Charge (Electrify America/IONNA), Climate Hold, Auto Cabin Ventilation, App Launcher tweaks, 12V battery health alerts, Gear Guard app fixes.
• 2025.34 (Sep 2025): Smart Charging Schedule (off-peak), Co-Steer for Gen 2, upgraded sound stage, Digital Key for Gen 2.
• 2025.26 (Mid 2025): Sport mode enhancements (tire feedback), Off-Road mode improvements (steering, damping for loose surfaces).
• 2025.18 (June 2025): Refreshed Energy App, better charging curves (Gen 1 Max Pack, Gen 2), Multi-factor Drive, enhanced driver display visualizations (more lanes/vehicles).
• 2025.10 (Apr 2025): Smoother low-speed ride (suspension tuning, bump detection).
• 2025.06 (Mar 2025): Enhanced Highway Assist (Gen 2, hands-free with attention monitoring), Go Chime, auto-tilting mirrors, Performance Dual-Motor drive mode.

 

[cyure]

Some things might be intentionally held back, other existing items are optimized & some (like the 2 new drive modes) might be built after the vehicle is delivered. Getting everything into a SW package immediately is a huge effort and massive lift (particularly in the case of Rivian with the first launch). At some point, you call the SW "done enough" for production and launch, but it is never done, and always changing and improving for the most part.

My U/I now is completely different from my U/I at launch. The way you interact with the U/I can be improved based on the most commonly used actions, etc. Its really quite amazing when you think about it. Rivian uses things like the Halloween drop to show the art of the possible and probably to "show off" some of their design expertise too.

Updates to the app are also done with changes to the SW in the truck. When I first got the truck I could not use gear guard to watch what was happening LIVE FROM THE APP. Gear guard would just capture events and store them to play when you got back to the truck. Now you can open the app and get live views all around your truck if you want. There's been many improvements. Here's just a sample of some recent updates this year:

Key Recent Updates & Features:

• 2025.46 (Dec 2025): Customizable Driver Display (Autonomy/Map view), Co-Steer for Gen 2 (adjust lane position), Enhanced Highway Assist (longer hands-free), audio/bass improvements, bug fixes.
• 2025.38 (Oct 2025): Plug & Charge (Electrify America/IONNA), Climate Hold, Auto Cabin Ventilation, App Launcher tweaks, 12V battery health alerts, Gear Guard app fixes.
• 2025.34 (Sep 2025): Smart Charging Schedule (off-peak), Co-Steer for Gen 2, upgraded sound stage, Digital Key for Gen 2.
• 2025.26 (Mid 2025): Sport mode enhancements (tire feedback), Off-Road mode improvements (steering, damping for loose surfaces).
• 2025.18 (June 2025): Refreshed Energy App, better charging curves (Gen 1 Max Pack, Gen 2), Multi-factor Drive, enhanced driver display visualizations (more lanes/vehicles).
• 2025.10 (Apr 2025): Smoother low-speed ride (suspension tuning, bump detection).
• 2025.06 (Mar 2025): Enhanced Highway Assist (Gen 2, hands-free with attention monitoring), Go Chime, auto-tilting mirrors, Performance Dual-Motor drive mode.

That’s amazing.