Want a Scout. Don't want the Drama!

[tanktheram]

I think the Scout is going to be a flop. It has a group of forums to decide features and the future, it has a direct to consumer model, and it is entering into an EV market that is in decline - it spells disaster.



Make the Scout available at all VW/Audi dealers - maybe even International dealer. All these dealers are all ready geared up for High Voltage Energy vehicles.



Provide an all-gasoline version of the Scout to compete with Bronco, Wrangler/Gladiator, Tacoma, etc. VW/Audi already has excellent gasoline powertrains that would drop in place.



Decide on 3 trim levels, good better best. Give it three powertrain options; EV, Hybrid and Gas. Make it available it at VW/Audi/International Dealers. Enough with the Forum back and forth stuff.



The best selling truck in North America is the F150. The best selling EV truck? The F150. Hybrid Truck - well F150 is also up there. Why? Its available to anyone at any Ford Dealer and servicing is a breeze.



I am rooted in the International Brand, and Scout is historically a no-nonsense vehicle that got the job done. I want one, but am not sure I want the nonsense associated with the brand so far.

 

[RodorW]

Love it! Powerwagon and Scat392 owner here. The Hemi is an engine which gets a bad rep, mostly by non owners, but ultimately has huge personality and has been very reliable for me and my wife.

Our DD/ city car is a 19' Spektrum VW Egolf with DCFC and heat pump. Have 100,000km on it now - its been a great vehicle, even though it is a primitive EV.

Public EV charging has improved ten-fold vs just a few years ago... but still leaves a ton to be desired. 300+ kwh chargers may exist, but actual charge rates rarely reach that. I'm not shocked that Scout Reservations have now crossed 85% for Harvester.

I'm hoping Scout will be a great vehicle with many sold to solidify it's future and guarantee parts support for years to come. Not quite ready to reserve, but I've been watching since initial inception.

With the Buzz being dead now too - and ID sales tanking, I'm just shocked VW is allowing this primarily EV powered, DTC vehicle to proceed.


~Insert some wacky young person slang here~

I wouldn’t say the Buzz is dead, it’s current configurations don’t work as well in the US, so it taking a break brim our market, but has been decently received elsewhere

 

[J Alynn]

I wouldn’t say the Buzz is dead, it’s current configurations don’t work as well in the US, so it taking a break brim our market, but has been decently received elsewhere

I also think it has to do with the greedy VW dealerships who slammed huge mark ups on them and turned people sour. They were pricey to start for the range but the mark ups, IMHO really helped to slow down the Buzz

 

[cyure]

I also think it has to do with the greedy VW dealerships who slammed huge mark ups on them and turned people sour. They were pricey to start for the range but the mark ups, IMHO really helped to slow down the Buzz

The dealer markup priced it out of the market.

 

[RodorW]

I also think it has to do with the greedy VW dealerships who slammed huge mark ups on them and turned people sour. They were pricey to start for the range but the mark ups, IMHO really helped to slow down the Buzz

Yeah, I had a friend who went and bought a new car at the beginning of 2025 and he was considering a green and white buzz but for the same price he was able to get a fully loaded VW sedan. I don’t remember which one it was but it’s a very nice car if they hadn’t had such a ridiculous markup on the buzz he was willing to buy it.

 

[cyure]

Yeah, I had a friend who went and bought a new car at the beginning of 2025 and he was considering a green and white buzz but for the same price he was able to get a fully loaded VW sedan. I don’t remember which one it was but it’s a very nice car if they hadn’t had such a ridiculous markup on the buzz he was willing to buy it.View attachment 13382

They are just such happy looking cars.

 

[RodorW]

They are just such happy looking cars.

They’ve been getting a little more popular around here. And they’re usually the bright vibrant colors, yellow blue I’ve seen red I’ve seen one that was gray and white, which I think was also a big issue with these cars if I remember correctly, where Volkswagen was having to subsidize dealers to have their buzzes wrapped because they ordered them in black and white and people like two tone for these vans

 

[cyure]

They’ve been getting a little more popular around here. And they’re usually the bright vibrant colors, yellow blue I’ve seen red I’ve seen one that was gray and white, which I think was also a big issue with these cars if I remember correctly, where Volkswagen was having to subsidize dealers to have their buzzes wrapped because they ordered them in black and white and people like two tone for these vans

They just have to be bright and two tone.

 

[J Alynn]

Yeah, I had a friend who went and bought a new car at the beginning of 2025 and he was considering a green and white buzz but for the same price he was able to get a fully loaded VW sedan. I don’t remember which one it was but it’s a very nice car if they hadn’t had such a ridiculous markup on the buzz he was willing to buy it.View attachment 13382

That was the sad part. My wife and I didn’t need that type of vehicle but actually started looking at them due to the nostalgia/cool factor but the dealer mark ups were just ridiculous

 

[RodorW]

That was the sad part. My wife and I didn’t need that type of vehicle but actually started looking at them due to the nostalgia/cool factor but the dealer mark ups were just ridiculous

Hopefully they come back with a better battery and range offering but the dealers will still screw things up, another friend of mine wants one still once they come back but he drives a small car now and I pointed him towards Tello, and I kinda hope he goes that direction, dealers need to be put in line IMO

 

[J Alynn]

They’ve been getting a little more popular around here. And they’re usually the bright vibrant colors, yellow blue I’ve seen red I’ve seen one that was gray and white, which I think was also a big issue with these cars if I remember correctly, where Volkswagen was having to subsidize dealers to have their buzzes wrapped because they ordered them in black and white and people like two tone for these vans

Exactly. Last March in London we saw a lot of them when we headed out of town on the trains

 

[J Alynn]

Hopefully they come back with a better battery and range offering but the dealers will still screw things up, another friend of mine wants one still once they come back but he drives a small car now and I pointed him towards Tello, and I kinda hope he goes that direction, dealers need to be put in line IMO

Exactly and they just can’t help themselves

 

[tanktheram]

Dead may not be the truth, but the Buzz is paused without a definitive future.

I'm not sure where all of you are - but on Canadas West Coast, the Buzz didn't have massive dealer markups or price adjustments. They were listed for MSRP, with plenty of inventory, strong marketing and still didn't sell.

The issue with the Buzz was the MSRP was too high. That in itself is what messed up sales, and MSRP is set by the manufacturer. Now that prices have dipped below MSRP / nearing $20,000 off in Canada, they're beginning to sell.

Unfortunately it is still very expensive to build an EV, and the consumer will always dictate the price. Unfortunately consumer demand for an EV never was high, and seems to be waning due to relaxed laws surrounding EV mandate.

Complex vehicles are expensive to build, dictating a high sell price or mass volume. The Harvester may be the Scouts lifeline. Hope the price is reasonable enough to make it worth purchasing, as the price will determine volume, and ultimately the future of the vehicle.

 

[Logan]

The other issue with the buzz, was its lackluster range for said price. It has a solid 100 miles less range than my Hyundai, but msrp was like $5-10k higher at least.

It should have been like $10-20k lower in price at the range it had. Instead its effective price was $20-30k higher for ages due to the crazy $10-20k markups.

Also, it’s a minivan with ZERO cup holders in the middle row?!?

 

[cyure]

The other issue with the buzz, was its lackluster range for said price. It has a solid 100 miles less range than my Hyundai, but msrp was like $5-10k higher at least.

It should have been like $10-20k lower in price at the range it had. Instead its effective price was $20-30k higher for ages due to the crazy $10-20k markups.

Also, it’s a minivan with ZERO cup holders in the middle row?!?

What?!?

 

[RodorW]

I still like the idea of the BUZZ though as a minivan or a people mover it is woolly low on range, but I have heard that if you drive them right, they do pretty good though. It also depends on where you live one of my friends is still considering one as a group travel vehicle if he can get one cheap enough from a Carmax or something like that.

 

[Logan]

What?!?

The ID Buzz has 234 miles of range. My Ioniq 9 has 320 miles of range, and the RWD base trim is 335 miles.

I guess I was wrong on the msrp. They are very close ($59k for the buzz and $60k for the Ioniq 9). Except when I was considering them the ID buzz didn’t qualify for the tax credit, while the Ioniq 9 did.

Plus Hyundai dealers had deals, while the VW ones had markups. So the effective price difference for us, was close to $20k ($7500 tax credit, $5k Hyundai corporate discount, $4500 dealer discount).

So 85 miles less range for ~$20k more, just didn’t make sense for us.

 

[J Alynn]

The other issue with the buzz, was its lackluster range for said price. It has a solid 100 miles less range than my Hyundai, but msrp was like $5-10k higher at least.

It should have been like $10-20k lower in price at the range it had. Instead its effective price was $20-30k higher for ages due to the crazy $10-20k markups.

Also, it’s a minivan with ZERO cup holders in the middle row?!?

Yeah. Taking a mindset that it was going to be their “halo” vehicle (as a minivan-seriously???) hurt as it was essentially a family hauler and the cool factor wasn’t high enough to get people to bite on it

 

[tanktheram]

We have to remember that range does not dictate efficiency though.

The Buzz might have been 234 mi to your 320, however it only has a 91kwh pack where the Hyundai is 110kwh.

Of similar size, weight and aerodynamics - their efficiency is close, albeit one with a smaller pack.

Something to consider about the Scout - as weight, aerodynamics and tire rolling resistance changes, efficiency changes. I chat with a few Hummer EV guys, and the efficiency is terrible, Rivians with aggressive rubber are similar. They're forever looking for the fastest charger possible in every city they go to, and charging frequently, with long charge times due to pack size.

In the gasser world, a 4 cylinder Tacoma Hybrid vs a Gladiator V6 vs my Powerwagon 6.4 V8 - all with aggressive tires, if the little trucks with a bit of lift, all get similar fuel economy on highway. At least we can refuel in 3 minutes, and get 700km to a tank.

The downside to these big burly EV's is that energy consumption is insane being that you're propelling a Powerwagon with batteries. Recharging costs are not far off of fuel, given the amount of energy used, and the recharge times are long due to the size of the pack.

As stated above, I LOVE our Egolf and I think EVs make sense as efficient commuters and people movers. They make ZERO sense in terms of offroad vehicles, and even the Harvester scares me due to all the added complexities of an EREV vehicle. Even the Harvester, due to its size, weight and proposed tire packages, I'm not sure it'll be any more efficient than an Ineos Grenadier, the polar opposite direct competitor, the most no-nonsense vehicle on the planet right now with it's BMW twin turbo I6.

When I started this thread, I was simply saying that with VW/Audis immense catalog of excellent gasoline powertrain options - I'm shocked a pure ICE variant wouldn't also be released. I can't see an EREV being any more efficient than an Audi S5 Sourced 2.9 turbo V6 coupled to a ZF8 trans. Cheaper to buy, fewer complexities - likely similar efficiency.

Guess time will tell.

 

[J Alynn]

We have to remember that range does not dictate efficiency though.

The Buzz might have been 234 mi to your 320, however it only has a 91kwh pack where the Hyundai is 110kwh.

Of similar size, weight and aerodynamics - their efficiency is close, albeit one with a smaller pack.

Something to consider about the Scout - as weight, aerodynamics and tire rolling resistance changes, efficiency changes. I chat with a few Hummer EV guys, and the efficiency is terrible, Rivians with aggressive rubber are similar. They're forever looking for the fastest charger possible in every city they go to, and charging frequently, with long charge times due to pack size.

In the gasser world, a 4 cylinder Tacoma Hybrid vs a Gladiator V6 vs my Powerwagon 6.4 V8 - all with aggressive tires, if the little trucks with a bit of lift, all get similar fuel economy on highway. At least we can refuel in 3 minutes, and get 700km to a tank.

The downside to these big burly EV's is that energy consumption is insane being that you're propelling a Powerwagon with batteries. Recharging costs are not far off of fuel, given the amount of energy used, and the recharge times are long due to the size of the pack.

As stated above, I LOVE our Egolf and I think EVs make sense as efficient commuters and people movers. They make ZERO sense in terms of offroad vehicles, and even the Harvester scares me due to all the added complexities of an EREV vehicle. Even the Harvester, due to its size, weight and proposed tire packages, I'm not sure it'll be any more efficient than an Ineos Grenadier, the polar opposite direct competitor, the most no-nonsense vehicle on the planet right now with it's BMW twin turbo I6.

When I started this thread, I was simply saying that with VW/Audis immense catalog of excellent gasoline powertrain options - I'm shocked a pure ICE variant wouldn't also be released. I can't see an EREV being any more efficient than an Audi S5 Sourced 2.9 turbo V6 coupled to a ZF8 trans. Cheaper to buy, fewer complexities - likely similar efficiency.

Guess time will tell.

But not everyone is buying on efficiency. Some recognize that over a 10 year period the Scout will be much more generous to planet earth. Others are buying because it’s cool and others (especially full BEV drivers) that they don’t want to deal with gas stations when they can simply plug in their cars to recharge at home right be fore they plug in their phones. The platform is also built for EV so trying to do an ICE powertrain would create nightmare issues for working in components. When 90% of most driving is less than 150 miles per day efficiency isn’t as critical because you just recharge overnight

 

[RodorW]

I’m not directing this to anyone specifically, but after doing some back of the napkin mask using 90% home charging compared to the most average gas price around me a Rivian R1 quad with a large pack compared to my V8 charger for one month being generous with the amount of times I had to go to the gas station. The charger would cost me $500 a month with the amount of miles I drive. And if we consider fully charging the Rivian every night with local charge rates for an entire 30 day month, it would be just under $400 public charging cost more because of how it’s set up and I get that but if you’re buying an electric vehicle, you shouldn’t be considering public charging as your main charge source because it will cost equivalent if not more than a gas car/truck