Want a Scout. Don't want the Drama!

[tanktheram]

I think the Scout is going to be a flop. It has a group of forums to decide features and the future, it has a direct to consumer model, and it is entering into an EV market that is in decline - it spells disaster.



Make the Scout available at all VW/Audi dealers - maybe even International dealer. All these dealers are all ready geared up for High Voltage Energy vehicles.



Provide an all-gasoline version of the Scout to compete with Bronco, Wrangler/Gladiator, Tacoma, etc. VW/Audi already has excellent gasoline powertrains that would drop in place.



Decide on 3 trim levels, good better best. Give it three powertrain options; EV, Hybrid and Gas. Make it available it at VW/Audi/International Dealers. Enough with the Forum back and forth stuff.



The best selling truck in North America is the F150. The best selling EV truck? The F150. Hybrid Truck - well F150 is also up there. Why? Its available to anyone at any Ford Dealer and servicing is a breeze.



I am rooted in the International Brand, and Scout is historically a no-nonsense vehicle that got the job done. I want one, but am not sure I want the nonsense associated with the brand so far.

 

[theonetruestripes]

Dealership model adds drama and raises prices? Look at Rivian and Tesla. They've had to build dealerships in every major city anyways to actually sell. Prices haven't come down. A dealership model allows trade in's, test drives and cross shopping. Spontaneity.

Tesla and Rivian have built showrooms and service centers.

You can go to them and test drive, and do trade-ins. You can also do most or all of the purchase process online. I traded my Tesla in for a Rivian, negated the price for the Rivian in advance, and the trade in price on the Tesla. Test drove a R1S.

During the same timeframe I was considering a Ioniq, the nearest Hyundai dealership to me that had one wanted a non-refundable deposit before I test drove it. As in I could give them money to let me test the car. Years ago I bought a GM EV, and the sales department tried to steer me to a gas car. You know the kind they make more service revenue on. I ended up buying from another dealership.

Rivian for example you can get in and out in half an hour with the vehicle at the quoted price. Most dealerships if you do the price dance ahead of time tend to not honor the price once you get there, and when they do it is still a multi hour process.

Dealerships are a third party that gets bank loans, buys cars from the manufacturer, has them sit in a showroom (or mostly in a big parking lot near the showroom), and tries to extract money form the customers either by inflating the price of the car, or the service. They were critical for manufacturers in the early 1900s letting them extend reach throughout the USA, they were arguably still valuable out towards the 1950s, but not partially valuable now.

A manufacturer needs service centers and showrooms, but they don’t need a 3rd party to run them. (Rivian can also do “anything that doesn’t need a lift” with their mobile service, I mean they do have big vehicles they can fill with tools and send out, I don’t think that is a long term viable service model though, if it is I would love to see Scout emulate it)

Yes it would be fantastic if I could buy my Scout online and get it serviced at an existing VW dealer. Although GM for example has a lot fewer service centers certified to do EV work then work on their “normal” vehicles.

Not easy to swap ICE powertrain into an EV? On the contrary - very easy. VW isn't dumb, they're likely planning ICE adaptation should this EV thing backfire - possibly why it keeps getting pushed out.

If it was an easy swap to ICE powertrain they very likely would have designed their EREV very differently. They made room for a gas engine and exhaust and such, but it doesn’t drive the wheels in any way. If they had designed it to take a gas power train they would have to make a lot of compromises that make it a worse EV (and a worse EREV).

Like it or not Scout is making a bet on EVs. They are also making a bet that gas will be part of the future of EVs and with 85% of reservations being the EREV model the looks like it was a good bet. (this is what I have reserved because while my current EV works great for most of my uses, it isn’t perfect for long trips with a bulky travel trailer, and I think a EREV Scout could be my ideal choice if it can tow reasonable loads -- I assume a trailer will likely cost it half it’s range as well, but with a very high base range and a very fast gas refuel speed that’ll be fine)

Nothing prevents Scout from also having a pure ICE model that shares very little other then body style with the EV models, but that is a whole lot of R&D for a startup.

 

[RodorW]

Yes it would be fantastic if I could buy my Scout online and get it serviced at an existing VW dealer. Although GM for example has a lot fewer service centers certified to do EV work then work on their “normal” vehicles.

when I had my charge port upgraded on my Bolt, I had scheduled a date for December 20 of 2024. I showed up to my appointment on time. They had me sit in my car for 30 minutes then came and told me I would have to reschedule for late January because they only have one EV and he was unavailable. Now for what I was having done I find that understandable, however this past year our Volt had an issue with the air conditioning. They kept our car for almost a month because only the EV tech was allowed to touch it and again he was largely unavailable.

 

[theonetruestripes]

I had scheduled a date for December 20 of 2024. I showed up to my appointment on time. They had me sit in my car for 30 minutes then came and told me I would have to reschedule for late January because they only have one EV and he was unavailable. Now for what I was having done I find that understandable

It is understandable that they would only have the EV certified tech do it, and it is understandable they only payed for one tech to take a month off from profitable work and go take the classes and the exam, but you are being incredibly generous to grant them “we scheduled this date and time, and you didn’t bother to make sure the one guy you have that can do the work would be available?"

I mean temper isn’t a virtue, and I’m not arguing that you are a worse person then me just because eI would have been angry with them and you were not! I would say you are a better more understanding person then I, but also that they really should have phoned you before your appointment to let you know it wouldn’t work on their end and to try again at a later date rather then have you schedule time off of work or whatever you would have been doing for a wasted trip to the dealership.

 

[Cranky Canuck]

when I had my charge port upgraded on my Bolt, I had scheduled a date for December 20 of 2024. I showed up to my appointment on time. They had me sit in my car for 30 minutes then came and told me I would have to reschedule for late January because they only have one EV and he was unavailable. Now for what I was having done I find that understandable, however this past year our Volt had an issue with the air conditioning. They kept our car for almost a month because only the EV tech was allowed to touch it and again he was largely unavailable.

I had a similar experience with my old Nissan Leaf. The driver's side door latch froze open (it gets pretty cold here) so I held the door closed and drove to the closest Nissan dealer. They weren't too busy so I asked if a tech could just come and grease the latch since that's probably all that it needed.

They said no, their only EV tech wasn't working that day.

I said, that's fine, it's just a regular door latch. In fact I'm pretty sure it's the exact same latch as is on the gas Versa.

Sorry no, only EV techs are allowed to work on EVs.

Okay but this has nothing to do with any EV stuff. It's a mechanical latch on a door.

I ended up going to a self-serve storage place because you can drive in to a heated area. I sat there for a bit while the car thawed out and once the door started latching properly again I went on with my day.

Dealers make the EV experience worse than it should be because they aren't just apathetic towards EVs, they're sometimes actually hostile towards them.

 

[RodorW]

It is understandable that they would only have the EV certified tech do it, and it is understandable they only payed for one tech to take a month off from profitable work and go take the classes and the exam, but you are being incredibly generous to grant them “we scheduled this date and time, and you didn’t bother to make sure the one guy you have that can do the work would be available?"

I mean temper isn’t a virtue, and I’m not arguing that you are a worse person then me just because eI would have been angry with them and you were not! I would say you are a better more understanding person then I, but also that they really should have phoned you before your appointment to let you know it wouldn’t work on their end and to try again at a later date rather then have you schedule time off of work or whatever you would have been doing for a wasted trip to the dealership.

It was just before Christmas and I was prepared to leave my car for the day and pick it up that afternoon so we had scheduled two weeks in advance that I would show up as soon as they open, which is around 6:30 and drop my car off the only reason I was not overly upset is because I was having my charge port upgraded. It wasn’t a necessary service. It was just something I wanted to do and in so doing I had also purchased a NACS adapter, which they did give me while I was there and when I went back later in January, I had already paid for my parts and my service. They tried to charge me for my service when they upgraded my charge port, it took them 30 minutes to figure out that I had already paid and for some reason they gave me a used neck adapter, cause the one I had picked up weeks before was Brand New in a box of bubble wrap, and the one that was sitting in my floorboard was scuffed up. And maybe I was feeling a little petty after wasting my time in December so I kept it and sold it on eBay.

 

[RodorW]

Dealers make the EV experience worse than it should be because they aren't just apathetic towards EVs, they're sometimes actually hostile towards them.

If I remember correctly, this is the majority of the issue that the F150 lightning faced due to Ford trying to force certifications or something like that so a lot of dealers wouldn’t buy them or forced them with massive markups. Not to mention that most of the dealerships sales staff are not educated in the cars as they sell in general, but especially not in the EV’s.

Then it also seems a lot of dealerships main issue with EV‘s is the depreciation because anytime you see dealership sales people talking about them they are concerned with the resale value as a perspective buyer of a $60,000+ EV truck I couldn’t care less about depreciation because I fully intend to drive whatever vehicle I have until the wheels fall off

 

[theonetruestripes]

I said, that's fine, it's just a regular door latch. In fact I'm pretty sure it's the exact same latch as is on the gas Versa.

Sorry no, only EV techs are allowed to work on EVs.

Okay but this has nothing to do with any EV stuff. It's a mechanical latch on a door.

Dealers make the EV experience worse than it should be because they aren't just apathetic towards EVs, they're sometimes actually hostile towards them.

You are probably right it is the same latch, or close enough that anyone competent to grease up one can do the other. On the other hand what if it wasn’t? What if for whatever reason the EV one had an extra sensor to tell if it was open or has tighter specs to seal it or whatever so it uses a different grease or is just more fiddly to take off an put on?

So it isn’t stupid to only want a tech that should know that for sure to do the work. That probably isn’t a hostel dealership policy, but a “don’t bust the EV” policy.

Yeah, it isn’t electric, and any mechanic should be able to read a page in the service manual that says how to take it off and lube it and put it back, and they _should_ at least look at that page and make sure nothing unusual is on it the first time that work on that exact model...so I’m with you, they should have flexed on that policy and made sure it went to a tech that would actually read what the manual says rather than immediately assume it is just like the last gas door flap and maybe do something wrong...and honestly the labor rates dealerships charge all the techs should be like that...

 

[Cranky Canuck]

If I remember correctly, this is the majority of the issue that the F150 lightning faced due to Ford trying to force certifications or something like that so a lot of dealers wouldn’t buy them or forced them with massive markups. Not to mention that most of the dealerships sales staff are not educated in the cars as they sell in general, but especially not in the EV’s.

Then it also seems a lot of dealerships main issue with EV‘s is the depreciation because anytime you see dealership sales people talking about them they are concerned with the resale value as a perspective buyer of a $60,000+ EV truck I couldn’t care less about depreciation because I fully intend to drive whatever vehicle I have until the wheels fall off

I especially love the depreciation arguments because the people that keep saying "no one buys EVs because they're too expensive" are the exact same people that say "EVs depreciate fast and can't hold their value!"

Okay so which is it? Are they too expensive or too cheap? I don't understand.

If new EV's are too expensive, fine. If they really do depreciate as hard as claimed then just wait a year and buy it used. I don't see the problem.

But yeah, I don't care about depreciation because I acknowledge that vehicles are depreciating assets and are not investments. It's a tool I plan to use until it is no longer useful to me.

 

[RodorW]

I especially love the depreciation arguments because the people that keep saying "no one buys EVs because they're too expensive" are the exact same people that say "EVs depreciate fast and can't hold their value!"

Okay so which is it? Are they too expensive or too cheap? I don't understand.

If new EV's are too expensive, fine. If they really do depreciate as hard as claimed then just wait a year and buy it used. I don't see the problem.

But yeah, I don't care about depreciation because I acknowledge that vehicles are depreciating assets and are not investments. It's a tool I plan to use until it is no longer useful to me.

Personally, I’ve never understood why people buy a car and then concern themselves with a depreciation value of it because if you’re buying a car to sell it, why did you buy it, because my personal understanding of buying a car is to have the car if you don’t wanna keep the car, you lease it and then at the end of the lease you get a new car unless you really loved it and then you can pay it off. And especially in this age of the Internet everyone that buys cars is concerned with the resale value. My current car is the only car I’ve ever been concerned with the resale value of and that’s because I intend to use it as a trade-in when scout is available and even then I’m still putting over 100 miles on it a day it’s resale value is plummeting fast

 

[Cranky Canuck]

You are probably right it is the same latch, or close enough that anyone competent to grease up one can do the other. On the other hand what if it wasn’t? What if for whatever reason the EV one had an extra sensor to tell if it was open or has tighter specs to seal it or whatever so it uses a different grease or is just more fiddly to take off an put on?

So it isn’t stupid to only want a tech that should know that for sure to do the work. That probably isn’t a hostel dealership policy, but a “don’t bust the EV” policy.

Yeah, it isn’t electric, and any mechanic should be able to read a page in the service manual that says how to take it off and lube it and put it back, and they _should_ at least look at that page and make sure nothing unusual is on it the first time that work on that exact model...so I’m with you, they should have flexed on that policy and made sure it went to a tech that would actually read what the manual says rather than immediately assume it is just like the last gas door flap and maybe do something wrong...and honestly the labor rates dealerships charge all the techs should be like that...

I get what you're saying but EVs are not drastically different in most ways that matter. It's just a different powertrain. The vast majority of an EV is off-the-shelf car parts that any competent mechanic should be able to handle. Most automakers (except probably Tesla and Rivian) use parts bin parts to make up most of the vehicles because why complicate things?

I have experienced many dealers that are actively hostile towards EVs. It's unfortunate. One day those dealers will either be forced to accept the new reality or go out of business. Alienating customers who already have EVs isn't going to help them in the future. There are already certain dealers here in town that when people talk to us about getting an EV we tell them to straight up avoid.

 

[cyure]

I especially love the depreciation arguments because the people that keep saying "no one buys EVs because they're too expensive" are the exact same people that say "EVs depreciate fast and can't hold their value!"

Okay so which is it? Are they too expensive or too cheap? I don't understand.

If new EV's are too expensive, fine. If they really do depreciate as hard as claimed then just wait a year and buy it used. I don't see the problem.

But yeah, I don't care about depreciation because I acknowledge that vehicles are depreciating assets and are not investments. It's a tool I plan to use until it is no longer useful to me.

I plan on keeping my Scout for the long haul so I really don’t care about depreciation. Honestly I hope when I’m done one of my kids or my grandson takes her over and she’s a legacy vehicle like the OG Scouts.

 

[RodorW]

I plan on keeping my Scout for the long haul so I really don’t care about depreciation. Honestly I hope when I’m done one of my kids or my grandson takes her over and she’s a legacy vehicle like the OG Scouts.

My hope for long-term scout owners from launch would be if solid state batteries become a reality that Scout can use, and they make the batteries for scouts that older, possibly even launch addition scouts could have their batteries upgraded, but even without that older EV’s are still running very strong on their original batteries

 

[Cranky Canuck]

My hope for long-term scout owners from launch would be if solid state batteries become a reality that Scout can use, and they make the batteries for scouts that older, possibly even launch addition scouts could have their batteries upgraded, but even without that older EV’s are still running very strong on their original batteries

Solid state batteries are overhyped and mostly myth at this point. I'd be more interested in an LFP battery option. You want the longest lasting vehicle? Build an EV with a lithium-iron phosphate battery and the thing will last pretty much forever. If they ever get sodium-ion densities high enough that would be EVEN better.

As long as the battery has a good thermal management system it should last decades regardless of whether it's conventional NCM or LFP. Can't say the EREV will last as long though. The batteries in the EREVs will likely be okay and outlast the combustion engine components by a wide margin. It's just physics (entropy mostly). Combustion engines have more moving parts and bits that wear down. They're also subject to extreme conditions from all the combusting that goes on inside them so it's only natural they don't last as long. It's why they are more finicky and need more maintenance fluids and all that nonsense.

If you want a long lasting Scout that might become an heirloom (or at least collector's item) one day, buy the EV version.

 

[theonetruestripes]

Most automakers (except probably Tesla and Rivian) use parts bin parts to make up most of the vehicles because why complicate things?

Tesla seems allergic to using parts suppliers, which has it’s own advantages and disadvantages.

Rivian buys a lot of parts, fewer on the Gen2 vehicles which is part of what makes the G2 R1 vehicles cost a lot less to build (not reflected in the MSRP because the G1 vehicles lost massive amounts of money each, the G2 was profitable until carbon caps went way so selling carbon offsets from the EVs stoped being part of the profit equation). Rivian’s rain sensor is an off the shelf part, Tesla uses the front camera that they wanted for FSD anyway and custom logic that a decade or more after they launched is still really bad at telling when it is raining. Rivian bought the control stalks for lights and wipers from a parts bin, and the G1 quad Rivian bought the rear wheel motors form Bosch (replaced with an in house design for the G2 that needs less maintenance, costs less, and are more controllable leading to them finally shipping tank turn/kick turn as part of the product even ’tho it was in some preannouncement advertising of the G1 it never made it to market). A huge number of Rivian parts are bespoke though. The actual zonal controllers that impressed VW so much for example kind of are (I think they are a ARM macrocell with a bunch of I/O ports, which are kind of the high tech version of using tinker toys, I mean yes you need to commit to buying hundreds of thousands to get them custom fabricated, and maybe you need more then a EE fresh out of university to do the design, but it isn’t a big deal hardware wise, and the software is even more “just good execution of the basics” not rocket science).

EVs seem to all know when the charge flap is open while gas vehicles less frequently have that ability. I don’t know if there is a government requirement that they have a “charge port open” light or not. That would make the parts a little different from the gas variants, but not in a way that should make it hard for a regular tech to work on as long as they know there is like one wire somewhere they may not expect!

I have experienced many dealers that are actively hostile towards EVs. It's unfortunate. One day those dealers will either be forced to accept the new reality or go out of business.

I 100% agree.

Personally, I’ve never understood why people buy a car and then concern themselves with a depreciation value of it because if you’re buying a car to sell it, why did you buy it

I’m mostly with you. However there are real reasons to not ignore resale. Bad resale leads to higher lease prices because banks have to assume lower residual values. In the case of leases one should look at the monthly payments.

For actual purchases you still look at the resales, if you buy say a $60k car and plan on driving it for five years and think you can resell it at $30k you have a different total bill from someone who buys a $60k car and can only resell it for $20k. Both people likely pay the same per month, but at the end one of you has a bigger chunk of change to put onto the next car or whatever you need at that time.

On the other hand if the “depreciation is too steep!” is really preventing you from being a new whatever, it should be pushing you towards used models. Like “I would never buy a Rivian the $100k models form two years ago are like $40k now!” mostly means “don’t be stupid, a two year old Rivian has like a year of bumper to bumper and over a decade of battery warranty, at $40k a 1200HP truck is a great deal! Don’t cry about the new prices, get that used one!"

Okay so which is it? Are they too expensive or too cheap? I don't understand.

Yep, 100% with you on that. New being expensive and used being cheap is an argument for maybe not being an EV startup unless you think your unique take on the business specifically targets that issue. It isn’t an argument not to buy an EV, it is a “buy used!” argument (or maybe “buy a good lease deal”)

 

[J Alynn]

The new Charger was an objectively terrible EV sold to a customer base that has an irrational hate of EVs. It was always destined to be a flop. People who understand that EVs are better didn't buy it because it was and overpriced, limited range, slow charging EV that made dumb combustion car noises. It was a bad EV.

The Dodge faithful didn't buy it because it was an EV and Fox News told them to hate EVs.

Crappy EV plus high price equals poor sales. It's simple math.

The Jeep Recon will see the same fate for the exact same reasons.

Glad you said it out loud as I’ve always felt the same way. That buyer group is primarily gas loving vehicle drivers

 

[J Alynn]

Personally, I’ve never understood why people buy a car and then concern themselves with a depreciation value of it because if you’re buying a car to sell it, why did you buy it, because my personal understanding of buying a car is to have the car if you don’t wanna keep the car, you lease it and then at the end of the lease you get a new car unless you really loved it and then you can pay it off. And especially in this age of the Internet everyone that buys cars is concerned with the resale value. My current car is the only car I’ve ever been concerned with the resale value of and that’s because I intend to use it as a trade-in when scout is available and even then I’m still putting over 100 miles on it a day it’s resale value is plummeting fast

Exactly this!

 

[robothero]

I wouldn't use the word concern, but I definitely consider deprecation when buying a vehicle. No matter how much I love a car, at some point I'm going to move on to something different, and there's always hope to at least recoup some degree of the cost when that time comes.

In an ideal world, your value is absolute minimum because you've held onto the car through years and thousands of miles and it's provided every cent of value it could, but I know that usually isn't the case.

EV's run into this issue more than ICE because the technology has improved by leaps and bounds over a very condensed timeframe, so a 2 year old vehicle truly does not have the same "value" as a current day one. My guess is that we'll get to a point pretty soon when that is no longer the case and deprecation will be less on an issue.

 

[Cranky Canuck]

I wouldn't use the word concern, but I definitely consider deprecation when buying a vehicle. No matter how much I love a car, at some point I'm going to move on to something different, and there's always hope to at least recoup some degree of the cost when that time comes.

In an ideal world, your value is absolute minimum because you've held onto the car through years and thousands of miles and it's provided every cent of value it could, but I know that usually isn't the case.

EV's run into this issue more than ICE because the technology has improved by leaps and bounds over a very condensed timeframe, so a 2 year old vehicle truly does not have the same "value" as a current day one. My guess is that we'll get to a point pretty soon when that is no longer the case and deprecation will be less on an issue.

That's not actually true. EV technology does not improve "by leaps and bounds", that's a myth. It does improve over time, just as ICE technology does, but it's not at such a rate that a two year old EV is obsolete and not worth it - or even a ten year old EV for that matter! In fact, ignoring cosmetic differences, an original Tesla Model S from 2012 compared to a current Model S are essentially the same. You'd be hard pressed as an average consumer to tell the difference between the two. Functionally they are the same and even look and feel very similar. Sure the newer one has some better software and a new front end, maybe some tweaks to the displays, but so does a new Rav 4 compared to an older one. Name me one model, gas or electric, that has not seen minor improvements over the model years. Functionally they're the same.

It's not like you'll buy an EV today and two years from now feel all sorts of regret because the new version has twice the range and charges in half the time or something. If you compare my 2022 Ioniq 5 with a 2026 Ioniq 5 I defy you to find any appreciable difference between the two. Don't get me wrong, there are differences, marginal improvements here and there, but fundamentally they are the same car and the differences aren't so great as to make any reasonable person feel the need to "upgrade" (although the addition of that rear wiper was tempting! lol).

EV technology is mature and has been mature for about a decade now. There are incremental improvements here and there but they aren't seismic shifts and certainly not something anyone would consider "leaps and bounds". The supposed rapid depreciation of EVs has more to do with perception than reality. People THINK EV tech is progressing super quickly so are hesitant to get one for fear it will be obsolete or something, but the REALITY is that EVs have been a mature technology for many years now. There are no groundbreaking advancements on the horizon despite what tech-bros and other charlatans keep hyping. It has been slow, plodding, incremental improvements year after year - a half percent improvement in efficiency here, a one percent improvement in energy density there - that do add up over time but that time is measured in decades.

If one is really worried about depreciation buy a one or two year old EV and let someone else eat it. Problem solved! Not only will you pay less up front but because of how depreciation curves work (hint, they're a curve!) you'll have more residual value when you do decided to end up selling it. I bought a used Leaf (I don't recommend that particular model though), paid $13k for it. Drove it for five years and sold it for $8k. I did the math and it cost me $25 PER YEAR in electricity, so the overall cost of the car was about a thousand bucks a year to me. Are there ANY new cars out there that only cost a grand a year in fuel, payments and maintenance? Now that was a Leaf and of course the costs of a better EV will be dramatically different but the point stands. (We can get into why it was only $25 per year in electricity later if someone wants to.)

 

[robothero]

It's not like you'll buy an EV today and two years from now feel all sorts of regret because the new version has twice the range and charges in half the time or something.

If this happened I would absolutely feel a way about it! Doubling the range and charging in half the time in 2 years is a major leap!

It's a much bigger timeframe, but that's almost exactly what you're looking at when you compare a Model S from 2012 to present. Larger battery, huge range jump, faster charging.

 

[dreamweaver]

That's not actually true. EV technology does not improve "by leaps and bounds", that's a myth. It does improve over time, just as ICE technology does, but it's not at such a rate that a two year old EV is obsolete and not worth it - or even a ten year old EV for that matter! In fact, ignoring cosmetic differences, an original Tesla Model S from 2012 compared to a current Model S are essentially the same. You'd be hard pressed as an average consumer to tell the difference between the two. Functionally they are the same and even look and feel very similar. Sure the newer one has some better software and a new front end, maybe some tweaks to the displays, but so does a new Rav 4 compared to an older one. Name me one model, gas or electric, that has not seen minor improvements over the model years. Functionally they're the same.

It's not like you'll buy an EV today and two years from now feel all sorts of regret because the new version has twice the range and charges in half the time or something. If you compare my 2022 Ioniq 5 with a 2026 Ioniq 5 I defy you to find any appreciable difference between the two. Don't get me wrong, there are differences, marginal improvements here and there, but fundamentally they are the same car and the differences aren't so great as to make any reasonable person feel the need to "upgrade" (although the addition of that rear wiper was tempting! lol).

EV technology is mature and has been mature for about a decade now. There are incremental improvements here and there but they aren't seismic shifts and certainly not something anyone would consider "leaps and bounds". The supposed rapid depreciation of EVs has more to do with perception than reality. People THINK EV tech is progressing super quickly so are hesitant to get one for fear it will be obsolete or something, but the REALITY is that EVs have been a mature technology for many years now. There are no groundbreaking advancements on the horizon despite what tech-bros and other charlatans keep hyping. It has been slow, plodding, incremental improvements year after year - a half percent improvement in efficiency here, a one percent improvement in energy density there - that do add up over time but that time is measured in decades.

If one is really worried about depreciation buy a one or two year old EV and let someone else eat it. Problem solved! Not only will you pay less up front but because of how depreciation curves work (hint, they're a curve!) you'll have more residual value when you do decided to end up selling it. I bought a used Leaf (I don't recommend that particular model though), paid $13k for it. Drove it for five years and sold it for $8k. I did the math and it cost me $25 PER YEAR in electricity, so the overall cost of the car was about a thousand bucks a year to me. Are there ANY new cars out there that only cost a grand a year in fuel, payments and maintenance? Now that was a Leaf and of course the costs of a better EV will be dramatically different but the point stands. (We can get into why it was only $25 per year in electricity later if someone wants to.)

Agree. By the time Scout delivers job 1 of their badass body on frame rock crawling EV it will be about what? Eight years.