The Start/Stop Button

[RodorW]

I know that we have talked multiple times on this forum about the on/off (start/stop) button. Personally, I don't think it's necessary, but I have heard the use cases for some people who want it, but looking at the bigger picture, this is why I wanted to start a new thread specifically on this topic.

In the bigger picture, start/stop buttons on electric vehicles are not really necessary, and going forward from Gen 1 to Gen 2, If the start/stop button makes it into Gen 1, how likely is it to make it into Gen 2? And I know a bunch of people have said that coming from an ice vehicle, they're used to the start/stop button and it's just more accommodating and comfortable. However, there's really no way around the button being a band-aid situation, whether it's Gen 1 or Gen 2. If Scout removes it, it's going to be a thing that people just have to get used to, whereas in Gen 1, if Scout makes it optional, (either physically or in software) a lot of people will choose to use it and then, going into Gen 2, if there is no button, it's going to be the Band-Aid again. It's going to get yanked off (sooner or later), and it's going to be a whole thing.

So my shower thought of the day, because I really hate the button in my Bolt, is this. Instead of having an on/off (start/Stop) dedicated button, Scout should move it from the steering wheel to somewhere on the dash or somewhere out of the way and make it a dedicated auxiliary button. This could be used to tell the vehicle to just stay on, or maybe like a physical "dog mode" button, but it would be out of the way and fully optional, for those (like myself) who would prefer a "get in and go" experience.

Or it could be an auxiliary switch for something else like, For example a "software reboot". In my car, I've been having issues with Android Auto. If I walk too far away with the car "on", it refuses to reconnect to the phone, while it's showing that it's connected. The only way to resolve this is to power down the car and wait at least 2 minutes for it to cycle everything to "offline", then I can turn it back on and reconnect. The issue with this is that I don't always have 2 minutes, and the Gen 2 bolt has no way to force a simple reboot. I know holding the button for about 15 seconds, the car will enter service mode, but not reboot. In Rivian (and tesla I believe), you hold two buttons on the wheel until a reboot warning pops up and keep holding to confirm. So why not make this button an easy software reboot; Vehicle in park, at 0 MPH, hold it for a set amount of time to reboot the software, and with that, it can still double as a 1-second press to tell the vehicle to stay on or maybe shut off if you want to sit in silence with no screens or lights.

 

[R1TVT]

I hate that your Rivian experience went like that. They are far better now and have "drive specialist" that even after I told them I had a Rivian they still walked me to the car and went over all the vehicle openings, drive functions, and emergency procedures.

Its my hope, and almost assuredly Scout will offer that same kind of experience for their customer test drives as well.

Agreed - that was not "normal" experience in Normal... That employee should be fired - that sounds like a poor experience for sure, not to their standard.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

Data shows during this time of change and transition, that too much change can compound and cause people to get too confused or unsure. We made the transition from strictly key ignition to push button. Having the start/stop button is more of a safety net for people that feel like they need that extra layer of confidence that the vehicle is actually "off" - particularly when there is no engine sound to indicate that it is shut down. If we do our part to go over customer delivery training, we can show and tell people that if you don't want to use the start/stop button, that's fine and you can walk away from the vehicle and it will time out/exceed NFC distance from key/fob/phone and shut down and/or lock the doors. Let's see how our system will work in the end, but I think during these "transition" periods where there is a lot of new changes at once, that drives some manufacturers to include some security blanket items.

 

[cyure]

Data shows during this time of change and transition, that too much change can compound and cause people to get too confused or unsure. We made the transition from strictly key ignition to push button. Having the start/stop button is more of a safety net for people that feel like they need that extra layer of confidence that the vehicle is actually "off" - particularly when there is no engine sound to indicate that it is shut down. If we do our part to go over customer delivery training, we can show and tell people that if you don't want to use the start/stop button, that's fine and you can walk away from the vehicle and it will time out/exceed NFC distance from key/fob/phone and shut down and/or lock the doors. Let's see how our system will work in the end, but I think during these "transition" periods where there is a lot of new changes at once, that drives some manufacturers to include some security blanket items.

Thank you. This will be a big change for me and I’m all for security blankets.

 

[RodorW]

If we do our part to go over customer delivery training, we can show and tell people that if you don't want to use the start/stop button, that's fine and you can walk away from the vehicle and it will time out/exceed NFC distance from key/fob/phone and shut down and/or lock the doors.

i feel like most cars on the road now do this, so long as they have a push button, not sure about shut off distance in my car specifically but I can walk away with key and it stays on, I think it’s just a pure timer. So the radius is good to hear being a possibility, but what of the other half of the equation? Will we be required to press the button to activate the vehicle? These trucks will have people coming from ICE where they used to it, but also Rivian, Tesla, GM where it’s been deleted and IMO an annoying step to relearn, just like when I use my fathers truck and have to insert and turn a key (and remove it after) I can do it but it’s a minor inconvenience after you get used to keeping your fob on you at all times

 

[oldgeeksguide]

I definitely don't want a start/stop button as I have a Rivian and have become accustomed to not having one. However, I would be completely fine with it being in the vehicle as long as I can opt to bypass it. That said, I think SM pretty much has to have at initial launch to satisfy the customer base.

My wonder is that if SM puts in the start/stop button and they allow us to bypass it, but there is a still a default in turning the vehicle on by pressing the brake pedal. In your preference would you still feel that you don't have complete control if this was the case, and if it was would you still prefer the vehicle didn't turn on by doing this? I ask this because I want to help SM become aware of most probabilities.

That’s probably fine. Again, I’m fine with reasonable ways for others to get what they’re looking for, I just don’t like unnecessarily forcing a preference on everybody when it’s easy to provide flexibility, e.g. EM doesn’t like buttons so let’s take away turn signals and wiper controls for everyone.

 

[speedrye]

That’s probably fine. Again, I’m fine with reasonable ways for others to get what they’re looking for, I just don’t like unnecessarily forcing a preference on everybody when it’s easy to provide flexibility, e.g. EM doesn’t like buttons so let’s take away turn signals and wiper controls for everyone.

As a customer for Scout, I want them to succeed so I'm not left with a Fisker Ocean. Appealing to as broad of a market as possible makes good business sense. Making the button programmable should serve the new-to-this-millenium crowd as well as the techies but default the setting to Start/Stop as the non-tech people likely won't dig into the manual or screens.

It's not like the button is going to be wired to a big relay or something anyway, it'll just be an input signal into the main computer.

 

[Scout_Lookout]

i feel like most cars on the road now do this, so long as they have a push button, not sure about shut off distance in my car specifically but I can walk away with key and it stays on, I think it’s just a pure timer. So the radius is good to hear being a possibility, but what of the other half of the equation? Will we be required to press the button to activate the vehicle? These trucks will have people coming from ICE where they used to it, but also Rivian, Tesla, GM where it’s been deleted and IMO an annoying step to relearn, just like when I use my fathers truck and have to insert and turn a key (and remove it after) I can do it but it’s a minor inconvenience after you get used to keeping your fob on you at all times

It sounds like to me that we are getting both. We are getting a start/stop button but we will have the functionality of NFC which to me means, (hopefully) that if want we can bypass the button if we have our phone, fob, or potentially key card to do so. I do love hearing that we can just walk away and it will shut off once the NFC distance is exceeded. This is exactly how I use my Rivian, I just hop out, walk away, and I hear the lock sound a feet away from my truck. I love that feature, so much better than digging for a fob to lock the vehicle, or standing at the door holding the door handle until it locks.

 

[RodorW]

It sounds like to me that we are getting both. We are getting a start/stop button but we will have the functionality of NFC which to me means, (hopefully) that if want we can bypass the button if we have our phone, fob, or potentially key card to do so. I do love hearing that we can just walk away and it will shut off once the NFC distance is exceeded. This is exactly how I use my Rivian, I just hop out, walk away, and I hear the lock sound a feet away from my truck. I love that feature, so much better than digging for a fob to lock the vehicle, or standing at the door holding the door handle until it locks.

I agree it sounds that way, I’m just trying to see if Jamie knows if it’s currently intended to work both ways. I spent so much time driving EDVs going back to the 01 F-150 was a pain, but my bolt has its pains to, for instance I can’t walk away, leave it running, and lock the doors, for what I do that’s a massive headache. So if we can have our scouts present on approach (in scouts case that’s just unlock and lights), get in the truck is ready, then get out and walk away with it chirping to sleep, that would be fantastic.

Though it really just depends on what scout decides to do, and I for one really want the button to be bypass-able, but not useless, especially if it stays located on the steering wheel.

 

[Scout_Lookout]

we can show and tell people that if you don't want to use the start/stop button, that's fine and you can walk away from the vehicle and it will time out/exceed NFC distance from key/fob/phone and shut down and/or lock the doors.

I agree it sounds that way, I’m just trying to see if Jamie knows if it’s currently intended to work both ways. I spent so much time driving EDVs going back to the 01 F-150 was a pain, but my bolt has its pains to, for instance I can’t walk away, leave it running, and lock the doors, for what I do that’s a massive headache. So if we can have our scouts present on approach (in scouts case that’s just unlock and lights), get in the truck is ready, then get out and walk away with it chirping to sleep, that would be fantastic.

Though it really just depends on what scout decides to do, and I for one really want the button to be bypass-able, but not useless, especially if it stays located on the steering wheel.

It looks like he did state that it will work both ways. He said if we dont want to use it, its fine, and we will be able to just walk away and it will lock/shut off, so it would certainly suggest that if it has NFC accessibility you will also be able to approach it and it will unlock. With NFC enabled we'll get exactly what we want, and with the inclusion of the S/S button everyone else will have what they want as well. Win-win

 

[RodorW]

It looks like he did state that it will work both ways. He said if we dont want to use it, its fine, and we will be able to just walk away and it will lock/shut off, so it would certainly suggest that if it has NFC accessibility you will also be able to approach it and it will unlock. With NFC enabled we'll get exactly what we want, and with the inclusion of the S/S button everyone else will have what they want as well. Win-win

It is heavily implied, and maybe it’s just the way I’m wired, but when I read it I can also see “you’ll have to press this button to turn the car on, but you can just walk away after that”.

We know nothing is set in stone, and Jamie won’t have all the answers, but it is good to hear that scout is most likely planning to offer a bypass, but hopefully it’s “programmable” so it won’t just be a pointless button if we don’t want to use it for “ignition”

 

[Scout_Lookout]

It is heavily implied, and maybe it’s just the way I’m wired, but when I read it I can also see “you’ll have to press this button to turn the car on, but you can just walk away after that”.

We know nothing is set in stone, and Jamie won’t have all the answers, but it is good to hear that scout is most likely planning to offer a bypass, but hopefully it’s “programmable” so it won’t just be a pointless button if we don’t want to use it for “ignition”

I get that, I'm just going to take solace in knowing we'll have full NFC capabilities, so I'm more than happy with that.

However, I think the original idea from @J Alynn about changing to a "S" button is brilliant. I would absolutely love a quick programmable button such as a my mode, instant off-road mode, instant camp mode, turn on the cameras, a quiet mode (joe mode in Tesla lol), etc. I think this is by far the best idea/use for the S/S button should some of us not use it. This way SM could leave it as part of the design for the foreseeable future.

 

[J Alynn]

Thank you. This will be a big change for me and I’m all for security blankets.

Plaid, scout colored blankets. With a bungee band to keep it rolled up and lashed to one of the scout molli panels in the rear

 

[cyure]

Plaid, scout colored blankets. With a bungee band to keep it rolled up and lashed to one of the scout molli panels in the rear

Oh we need plaid SM logo blankets in Scout Supply. What a great idea!

 

[Scoutsie]

Data shows during this time of change and transition, that too much change can compound and cause people to get too confused or unsure. We made the transition from strictly key ignition to push button. Having the start/stop button is more of a safety net for people that feel like they need that extra layer of confidence that the vehicle is actually "off" - particularly when there is no engine sound to indicate that it is shut down. If we do our part to go over customer delivery training, we can show and tell people that if you don't want to use the start/stop button, that's fine and you can walk away from the vehicle and it will time out/exceed NFC distance from key/fob/phone and shut down and/or lock the doors. Let's see how our system will work in the end, but I think during these "transition" periods where there is a lot of new changes at once, that drives some manufacturers to include some security blanket items.

Sounds like everybody wins!

Maybe the start/stop button could be pried out and replaced with a custom button, lovingly 3D-printed by yourself if you’re fortunate enough to have a 3D printer or a third party with a 3D relief image of [a pet/a peaceful ocean scene/Caligula, I don’t know] so you needn’t ever look upon the start/stop button with disdain and be reminded that it isn’t what you signed up for.

 

[R1TVT]

My take away (from all of these threads on START BUTTON) is that there are a lot of misconceptions about why a START Button is needed (or not needed) in a modern EV with a great UI and configurations, and that people can be very reluctant to change or try new things. This is expected. Many people buying a Scout will be buying a new truck or SUV for the first time in potentially a decade or more.

For the record, I am 100% fine with having a START button (as long as I don't need to use it).

It would seem almost ludicrous to me for someone to actually WANT to do something that they actually didn't have to do (like press a button), but I am also biased b/c I was an early adopter of a launch edition R1T, and I know that not everybody is the same. That would be scary. LOL.

If Scout implements this the way that Jamie suggests, I will predict right now that most drivers that elect to try NOT using the START button will immediately bail after seeing how it works. There simply is no good reason to "push a button" to simulate a start, provided you have already awakened the vehicle and have made a handshake. You can just drive away. It is unclear to me what pressing a button AFTER a handshake would accomplish - other than possibly 1 THING... That "thing" could be to actually turn on the Harvester manually (if you opted for an EREV and had configurations set to ACTIVATE HARVESTER, for example, when the START button was pushed.

Now, if the start button had biometrics built-in and you wanted to add a layer of security to your vehicle (optionally) I could completely see a START button serving that purpose!!! New feature! LOL.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

My Audi Q6 has a start/stop button but doesn't require me to use it if I don't want to. I think we will be good on all this.

 

[oldgeeksguide]

Sounds like everybody wins!

Maybe the start/stop button could be pried out and replaced with a custom button, lovingly 3D-printed by yourself if you’re fortunate enough to have a 3D printer or a third party with a 3D relief image of [a pet/a peaceful ocean scene/Caligula, I don’t know] so you needn’t ever look upon the start/stop button with disdain and be reminded that it isn’t what you signed up for.

“…pry the start/stop button from my cold dead hands”

 

[oldgeeksguide]

My Audi Q6 has a start/stop button but doesn't require me to use it if I don't want to. I think we will be good on all this.

I’d be good with your Audi Q6, is that on the table?

 

[R1TVT]

My Audi Q6 has a start/stop button but doesn't require me to use it if I don't want to. I think we will be good on all this.

Music to my ears, Jamie! Love it... Everyone wins.

 

[Scoutsie]

My take away (from all of these threads on START BUTTON) is that there are a lot of misconceptions about why a START Button is needed (or not needed) in a modern EV with a great UI and configurations, and that people can be very reluctant to change or try new things. This is expected. Many people buying a Scout will be buying a new truck or SUV for the first time in potentially a decade or more.

This is accurate. Change is for underpants and the nickel drawer, not my button-rich lifestyle.