The One-Ton Problem with Scout’s Harvester Range Extender

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Then how does Ram say their Ramcharger truck will be able to still tow max weight even with the vehicle battery depleted and just the generator engine running.
Well, for starters the RAM vehicle doesn’t actually exist. This is partly because their promises were far more difficult to achieve than they expected.
 
It matters where the weight is. The battery will be between the axles. The Harvester would move the weight to be directly over the rear axle, which reduces available user-added load on the rear axle, which reduces available tongue weight for towing.
If I am not mistaken Scout is using the same AAM E-Beam as the Ram EREV.

Even with a few hundred extra pounds of weight over the rear axle you would think it wouldn't cause such a significant difference in towing capacities.

The AAM website shows max towing at 18,000lbs for the 800v Tractrite-EL Light Duty E-Beam axle. I am sure with a rating like that it must have a pretty robust weight capacity.
 
Yes and the generator cannot provide the full power requirements of towing 10,000 pounds. The charge level of the battery will drop as the vehicle is driven.

In a EREV solution, the generator doesn't have to provide the full power of towing 10,000 pounds. It just needs to provide the average power needed to tow 10,000 pounds. That is why they can use a smaller engine. The full power (torque) needed for towing comes from the electric motors, not the engine. When the required power exceeds what the generator can produce, the vehicle draws extra power from the battery. When the generator produces more power than needed, the excess goes back into the battery.
 
What do you mean it doesn't exist? They showed a prototype of it just like Scout did of theirs and it will be out way before the Scout vehicles.
I guess the distinction is it is closer to the vapor-ware side of the spectrum after their continual delays and Scout is still hitting all of their milestones.
 
Scout Motors almost has the winning formula for bringing a truck/SUV to market that solves all the big EV truck objections. With the Harvester gas range extender motor, owners can still do the towing and long distance road trips that the family car demands without a second thought, while still operating a full BEV for the other 95% of driving. At the campsite, tailgate, or worksite, the truck is both a battery bank and a true generator, meaning one could rely on it for boondocking with zero concern for the state of charge. It’s the perfect small- to medium-travel trailer hauler. But there’s one big problem.

The quoted towing capacities of 7,000 and 10,000 are respectable, even impressive figures for the Traveler and Terra. That puts Traveler drivers in a 20-25 foot travel trailer or lets them haul a boat that size down to the beach. For the Terra, one can comfortably haul a 30 foot trailer big enough for the whole family. We all know what happens to EV range when towing (thanks Hoovie), so the addition of a gas range extender is the only thing that can make long-distance towing practical given current battery tech. The Harvester option is the obvious choice for anyone who plans to tow…

…except that it isn’t. A couple months ago, Scott Keogh appeared on Jay Leno’s Garage. During the half-hour interview and demo of the prototype Scouts, Keogh revealed that the publicized towing figures were for the battery models only. Terra and Traveler models equipped with the Harvester - the ones that would actually make decent tow vehicles - are limited to 5,000 pounds each.

5,000 pounds! That’s a figure for a compact truck or a Korean crossover, not the hauling pedigree of a full-size body-on-frame machine. 5k is enough for an 16’ ultralight travel trailer - the kind you see being hauled by Subarus. Notably, 5,000 pounds is a full ton less than the 7k figure for the full EV Traveler and a staggering 2.5 tons less than the Harvester-less Terra.

This bombshell from Keogh went largely unnoticed and unreported in the automotive community, although it generated some passionate discussion in the Scout Forums and Facebook groups. Most of us are simply confused. How does 500 pounds of four-banger and fuel (despite also removing hundreds of pounds of extra battery) reduce the towing capacity by half, in the case of the Terra? Is it a power problem? Payload? The proposed design places the motor behind the rear axle to reduce NVH. If placement is the problem, I’m sure most owners would take the tradeoff of a little engine drone to maintain the towing capability.

With the Harvester gas range extender, Scout is poised to build the best All-American, all-purpose EV trucks yet; The only ones, so far, that actually fit the lifestyle so many rugged truck and SUV buyers aspire to. Here’s hoping Scout doesn’t squander that opportunity with a design flaw that defeats a primary purpose of this unique architecture for many would-be buyers.

-plyable

Glad you posted a new thread on this. I made a comment somewhere else, but my jaw just about dropped when I heard this menial tow rating.

My only real consideration is the Harvester EREV variant. I don't plan on huge cross country trips with a large tailer with the Harvester Terra. At least that's not my initial goal. Would warm up to it with shorter trips, but only able to tow 5K lbs. Has me putting even the Gladiator back on the table for consideration.
 
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Yes, there have been many threads about this already.

This is Scouts official response to the concerns about towing ratings.

They are aware that we are concerned about it.
 
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Yes and the generator cannot provide the full power requirements of towing 10,000 pounds. The charge level of the battery will drop as the vehicle is driven.

At some point the battery will be depleted and the vehicle is powered by the generator alone. The vehicle will then be limited to a rather low speed. Especially up a modest grade.

Otherwise the battery would also need to be charged at fueling stops. Nobody buys a normally aspirated four cylinder vehicle to tow 10,000 pounds as it would prove underpowered. Same physics applies to the Scout.
The vehicle as stated will not be powered by the generator only. The generator is designed for charging the battery so long as there is fuel in the generator or some variable of SOC left after generator runs out of gas. But the generator only needs to run to charge the battery, not to propel the truck directly. Thats why the EV range is 150 so in theory it stays ahead of the draw energy the motors are using to propel the truck. Not sure what I’m missing on this conversation
 
What do you mean it doesn't exist? They showed a prototype of it just like Scout did of theirs and it will be out way before the Scout vehicles.

RAM announced in 2023 with a 2024 production date, which nobody with any understanding of the market believed. Then they announced a delay to 2025. Then another delay to 2026 along with a major strategy shift. No consumers will likely own the truck until 2027 at the earliest. I would not be surprised if Scouts are in consumer hands before the Ram EREV is.

RAM is making much bigger claims on capabilities than are realistic or affordable. If they do meet those claims, the truck is likely to weigh 10k pounds dry.

Scout has been quietly making progress on their vehicles without making wild claims of capability that don't make sense.
 
In a EREV solution, the generator doesn't have to provide the full power of towing 10,000 pounds. It just needs to provide the average power needed to tow 10,000 pounds. That is why they can use a smaller engine. The full power (torque) needed for towing comes from the electric motors, not the engine. When the required power exceeds what the generator can produce, the vehicle draws extra power from the battery. When the generator produces more power than needed, the excess goes back into the battery.
I understand this completely. I still stand by the 10K will deplete the battery. Time will tell.
 
I guess the distinction is it is closer to the vapor-ware side of the spectrum after their continual delays and Scout is still hitting all of their milestones.

The RAM EREV was announced in 2023 and was supposed to launch in 2024. So yeah, its been delayed a few times already.
Yes, it has been delayed. It is still supposed to come out before the Scout vehicles do. I suppose we shall see.