Self-driving integration with Open Pilot.

  • From all of us at Scout Motors, welcome to the Scout Community! We created this community to provide Scout vehicle owners, enthusiasts, and curiosity seekers with a place to engage in discussion, suggestions, stories, and connections. Supportive communities are sometimes hard to find, but we're determined to turn this into one.

    Additionally, Scout Motors wants to hear your feedback and speak directly to the rabid community of owners as unique as America. We'll use the Scout Community to deliver news and information on events and launch updates directly to the group. Although the start of production is anticipated in 2026, many new developments and milestones will occur in the interim. We plan to share them with you on this site and look for your feedback and suggestions.

    How will the Scout Community be run? Think of it this way: this place is your favorite local hangout. We want you to enjoy the atmosphere, talk to people who share similar interests, request and receive advice, and generally have an enjoyable time. The Scout Community should be a highlight of your day. We want you to tell stories, share photos, spread your knowledge, and tell us how Scout can deliver great products and experiences. Along the way, Scout Motors will share our journey to production with you.

    Scout is all about respect. We respect our heritage. We respect the land and outdoors. We respect each other. Every person should feel safe, included, and welcomed in the Scout Community. Being kind and courteous to the other forum members is non-negotiable. Friendly debates are welcomed and often produce great outcomes, but we don't want things to get too rowdy. Please take a moment to consider what you post, especially if you think it may insult others. We'll do our best to encourage friendly discourse and to keep the discussions flowing.

    So, welcome to the Scout Community! We encourage you to check back regularly as we plan to engage our members, share teasers, and participate in discussions. The world needs Scouts™. Let's get going.


    We are Scout Motors.
I never realized how good it was until I've actually used it. And now I don't want to be without it. It makes things much better. People are worried about falling asleep but you can listen to audiobooks. Mount your phone on your dash where you can see the road at the same time and actually watch TV and YouTube channels while you're driving/riding it's pretty amazing. You can definitely relax a bit.

You’re talking about cruise control where you keep your foot off of the gas pedal, correct? I wasn’t aware that cruise control also gave you liberty to take your eyes off of the road.

It makes me anxious to not have control of the car and feel like it’s an extension of myself and my movements. I have a lot of dreams where I’m in the back seat of a car that’s driving itself with no brakes and I always wake up right before it’s about to collide with a wall, truck, another car, a train, etc. I do not want that for my reality.
 
He said he really likes the rivian but the self-driving or assisted driving is not good especially compared to Tesla. A lot of people are using Comma 3x devices with the Rivian because it's so much better. It watches your eyes so you can't fall asleep, it will stop the vehicle. It recognizes stop signs and reacts to them as well as red lights. It's the second driver assists 2+ behind Tesla. From all the YouTube videos that I've seen it does a great job. I'll be receiving my unit tomorrow so I can give more feedback on it later. It also allows you to fully control what you want it took control. Turn on and off certain features. Everything's basically a la carte if you want. Much more control than any OEM. But I think companies should start looking at third parties. Just like Android Auto and Apple Carplay. There's no reason to put navigation in the vehicle now. Everybody uses Android Auto and Apple Carplay. Just make your infotainment system do wireless Android Auto and Apple Carplay. Saves a ton of money, time and just works better. Driver assistance for full self driving should be exactly the same. Why waste the money. You can have a team review stuff, allow certain aspects or restrict certain aspects if you choose but why waste all that time and money developing it yourself. I think it's all going to go third party eventually anyway. It makes sense to have someone that's really good at doing one thing taking care of all that. So we'll see what happens. But if I was a leader of Scout or VW or Rivian. I would definitely be open and looking to have conversations about this. And would reach out to you people in the field developing these things. The future of these things will definitely be interesting.

Honestly, I was a little suspect of your original post - you came on so strong with this open source angle, and I'm not aware of any US OEM that leverages Open Source for their autonomous systems, but correct me if I am wrong. Your post above makes me more suspect of your motivations. I had posted a video and information on Rivian's latest OTA release, but you must not have read it (or perhaps you didn't understand how their SW & sensors work b/c they do require you to be alert). Scout can already cut costs and deploy faster and more efficiently based on their partnership. Lastly, and based on current infrastructure, technology, liability, etc. I'm guessing most people buying Scouts will be quite happy with L2+ and OTA's in the future (just based on reading this forum). Feels to me like the Tesla demographic is very different from the Scout demographic, and the FULL FSD isn't really a top priority for Scout owners, but just my 02 cents.

Below is the information I referenced regarding Rivian's Driver+ system and Gen 2 SW OTA:
https://rivian.com/support/article/what-hardware-is-included-in-the-rivian-autonomy-platform. See last bullet.

Screenshot 2025-03-31 at 7.38.17 AM.png
 
Honestly, I was a little suspect of your original post - you came on so strong with this open source angle, and I'm not aware of any US OEM that leverages Open Source for their autonomous systems, but correct me if I am wrong. Your post above makes me more suspect of your motivations. I had posted a video and information on Rivian's latest OTA release, but you must not have read it (or perhaps you didn't understand how their SW & sensors work b/c they do require you to be alert). Scout can already cut costs and deploy faster and more efficiently based on their partnership. Lastly, and based on current infrastructure, technology, liability, etc. I'm guessing most people buying Scouts will be quite happy with L2+ and OTA's in the future (just based on reading this forum). Feels to me like the Tesla demographic is very different from the Scout demographic, and the FULL FSD isn't really a top priority for Scout owners, but just my 02 cents.

Below is the information I referenced regarding Rivian's Driver+ system and Gen 2 SW OTA:
https://rivian.com/support/article/what-hardware-is-included-in-the-rivian-autonomy-platform. See last bullet.

View attachment 5756
I would rather an in-house made platform. By Scout and Rivian. It would suck to use the opensource and get into a collision and have zero backing behind it, since they won't take credit for it. I would hate to use Comma(Coma) God forbid any of us end up in a coma from comma.
 
Honestly, I was a little suspect of your original post - you came on so strong with this open source angle, and I'm not aware of any US OEM that leverages Open Source for their autonomous systems, but correct me if I am wrong. Your post above makes me more suspect of your motivations. I had posted a video and information on Rivian's latest OTA release, but you must not have read it (or perhaps you didn't understand how their SW & sensors work b/c they do require you to be alert). Scout can already cut costs and deploy faster and more efficiently based on their partnership. Lastly, and based on current infrastructure, technology, liability, etc. I'm guessing most people buying Scouts will be quite happy with L2+ and OTA's in the future (just based on reading this forum). Feels to me like the Tesla demographic is very different from the Scout demographic, and the FULL FSD isn't really a top priority for Scout owners, but just my 02 cents.

Below is the information I referenced regarding Rivian's Driver+ system and Gen 2 SW OTA:
https://rivian.com/support/article/what-hardware-is-included-in-the-rivian-autonomy-platform. See last bullet.

View attachment 5756
Given that "Full FSD" remains a pipe-dream even for Tesla I don't think SM needs to waste time or resources pursuing that mirage. Even companies like Waymo that have working autonomous cabs driving around only do so in very specific areas and even then they still struggle with basic problems like traffic cones after years of research. So I agree with what you say, most owners will be very happy with Level 2+. FSD has been promised for almost 15 years and is still not much more than a tech demo despite the lies Musk tries to peddle that it's coming "next year" (it's been "coming next year" since 2014). It's all hype and very little substance.
 
The issue with FSD is that as smart as AI is, it will never be able to replace the human brain for driving, think about your phone in the driver's seat with Google or safari or another web browser open, and it needing to look both ways with the camera app, it's impossible because its on another app. AI would have to be a lot smarter and faster than it is now to be able to drive a car like a human, sure are the beta's and all the other things ADAS driving, yeah sure they are, as smooth and as reliable as a human? no. Think about all the stuff we do in a car while driving, changing the radio, thinking about what needs to be done, talking.
 
The issue with FSD is that as smart as AI is, it will never be able to replace the human brain for driving, think about your phone in the driver's seat with Google or safari or another web browser open, and it needing to look both ways with the camera app, it's impossible because its on another app. AI would have to be a lot smarter and faster than it is now to be able to drive a car like a human, sure are the beta's and all the other things ADAS driving, yeah sure they are, as smooth and as reliable as a human? no. Think about all the stuff we do in a car while driving, changing the radio, thinking about what needs to be done, talking.
I was thinking that. Like what if corner of eye you see two deer running toward side of car. Will FSD pick that up and stop you? Is it smart enough to speed up instead to avoid the deer hitting you. It’s one thing if issues are on road but what about reaction to things like that or a car you sense coming through an intersection-will it be able to handle that. I think of it as 6th sense items
 
I was thinking that. Like what if corner of eye you see two deer running toward side of car. Will FSD pick that up and stop you? Is it smart enough to speed up instead to avoid the deer hitting you. It’s one thing if issues are on road but what about reaction to things like that or a car you sense coming through an intersection-will it be able to handle that. I think of it as 6th sense items
That’s a great way to describe it. For example when a light turns green I give it a beat. Look to make sure everyone is stopping. And when turning if there is a car in front of me I don’t even bother looking to the right or left to plan my turn until the car in front of me is gone. Too many times people start a turn and don’t complete it for whatever reason. I don’t trust FSD to take those things into account.
 
I was thinking that. Like what if corner of eye you see two deer running toward side of car. Will FSD pick that up and stop you? Is it smart enough to speed up instead to avoid the deer hitting you. It’s one thing if issues are on road but what about reaction to things like that or a car you sense coming through an intersection-will it be able to handle that. I think of it as 6th sense items
Thank you for simplifying my mess of an explanation lol. I think i rewrote it like ten times before publishing it. But i still sucked at explaining it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: J Alynn
The issue with FSD is that as smart as AI is, it will never be able to replace the human brain for driving, think about your phone in the driver's seat with Google or safari or another web browser open, and it needing to look both ways with the camera app, it's impossible because its on another app. AI would have to be a lot smarter and faster than it is now to be able to drive a car like a human, sure are the beta's and all the other things ADAS driving, yeah sure they are, as smooth and as reliable as a human? no. Think about all the stuff we do in a car while driving, changing the radio, thinking about what needs to be done, talking.
I think the first thing to appreciate in order to understand why I think FSD is mostly BS is that AI's aren't all that smart. Wow, I know that was a lot of initialisms but bear with me. In order for a Full-Self Driving system to work as Elon and his weirdo followers keep insisting it will, we need to have a "General Purpose" Artificial Intelligence - think HAL 9000 or the AI from Ex Machina. Thanks to science fiction I think most people have a basic understanding of what a GPAI can and should be. It's essentially an AI that can solve problems on its own in a creative way, like a human. We can encounter novel situations and come up with creative solutions to those situations based on our past experiences even though we might not have ever been in that situation before.

So when people hear "AI" that's what they kind of assume. But that's not what out AI actually is. Current AI is hyped so that people believe it's HAL but it's really more just a monkey-see-monkey-do type thing. They aren't intelligent. They aren't creative. They can only solve problems they've seen before and if they encounter something new they might try a solution but there's not logic behind it other than an attempt to fit the new situation into a known box. AI can't problem solve like you and I can. They can't think creatively. And that's fine, so long as the universe of variables that the AI will encounter is known and catalogued.

Unfortunately for AIs though, the list of variables out in the world on the road is nearly infinite. There's no practical way to train an AI to see every single situation it will ever encounter. We can approximate things, sure, that's what Waymo does. But that's also why Waymo geo-fences their robotaxis into certain areas. It's a way to limit variables and to give their AI the highest probably of successfully experiencing the same situations. And even then it's not perfect, it's barely good enough.

So no, FSD is BS, at least the way Elon is talking about it. AI's are pretty dumb and benefit from a TON of hype but don't believe it. Anyone who's ever tried to use an AI can tell you they aren't that smart and they make a lot of mistakes. Humanity is so far from a GP-AI breakthrough we don't even know what the path to one looks like. Scout is definitely making the right call here.
 
You’re talking about cruise control where you keep your foot off of the gas pedal, correct? I wasn’t aware that cruise control also gave you liberty to take your eyes off of the road.

It makes me anxious to not have control of the car and feel like it’s an extension of myself and my movements. I have a lot of dreams where I’m in the back seat of a car that’s driving itself with no brakes and I always wake up right before it’s about to collide with a wall, truck, another car, a train, etc. I do not want that for my reality.
You take your eyes off the road all the time when you're driving. You should be scanning. The side of the roads behind you, your gauges. You're constantly looking around. You may just not realize it. Adaptive cruise with driver's assist allows you to take your hands off the steering wheel and your foot off the gas and brake isn't that great.

People have weird dreams. The greatest thing is, if you're that worried about it you don't have to use it.
 
Honestly, I was a little suspect of your original post - you came on so strong with this open source angle, and I'm not aware of any US OEM that leverages Open Source for their autonomous systems, but correct me if I am wrong. Your post above makes me more suspect of your motivations. I had posted a video and information on Rivian's latest OTA release, but you must not have read it (or perhaps you didn't understand how their SW & sensors work b/c they do require you to be alert). Scout can already cut costs and deploy faster and more efficiently based on their partnership. Lastly, and based on current infrastructure, technology, liability, etc. I'm guessing most people buying Scouts will be quite happy with L2+ and OTA's in the future (just based on reading this forum). Feels to me like the Tesla demographic is very different from the Scout demographic, and the FULL FSD isn't really a top priority for Scout owners, but just my 02 cents.

Below is the information I referenced regarding Rivian's Driver+ system and Gen 2 SW OTA:
https://rivian.com/support/article/what-hardware-is-included-in-the-rivian-autonomy-platform. See last bullet.

View attachment 5756
No I read your post about Rivian and how they're doing self-driving. I watched the video that you posted. Which is how everyone else is doing self-driving. And when I say self-driving, I mean all drivers Assistance programs including full self-driving. And they are still behind compared to other OEMs and Open Pilot. I feel that there is a better option and that things will eventually move to third party. Just like Android Auto and Apple Maps. Why waste the time resources and money developing and maintaining something when someone else is already doing it. And they are doing that one thing very well. Just like, why would you put an OEM navigation system in a vehicle when everyone uses Android Auto and Apple Maps for the most part. Ford's taking their navigation system out of their vehicles now because of this. I feel that's probably going to be the way of the future. And why not it saves you a ton of money as an OEM. I think that Open Pilot is a great idea that's why I reference them. Is there something better right now? I don't know. I don't think so. It can easily have checks and balances put in place if you need be. I just received my Comma 3X device to put in my F-150 today. And if I buy a scout later and it doesn't perform the way I want to as far as self-driving goes. I can order a wiring harness when they develop it which will be quickly and put the comma 3x in that.

I'm not sure what you mean by you say my post is suspect? Are you developing some sort of conspiracy theory? Ha Ha. I think the majority of scout purchasers are probably going to be looking for a vehicle that was promised at a price that was promised at, as far as pre-orders go. Purchasers once the vehicles on the market are all going to be looking for something that's competitive in the market as far as offerings at a price they're willing to pay. Just like any other vehicle. I think scout has done a very good job at selling a brand and a culture for their brand, to get started. At the end of the day the majority of people buying scouts are going to be people that are looking for, probably most important these days, is a good reliable vehicle for a good price. Those are the people that are going to sustain the company. You can't sustain a multibillion dollar company in a niche market. I'm sure VW is very aware of that.
 
I would rather an in-house made platform. By Scout and Rivian. It would suck to use the opensource and get into a collision and have zero backing behind it, since they won't take credit for it. I would hate to use Comma(Coma) God forbid any of us end up in a coma from comm....

Google Maps, Android auto, Apple carplay, and just about every app on a phone is third party. Some are open source. And we use them everyday. Well most poeple.

And I guarantee you if you get into a wreck using assisted driving or full self driving. Scout's not going to be held responsible for anything. You will be held responsible. Just like it is right now. You chose to use the technology you should understand what is capabilities are and what your responsibilities are for using it. Same as ignorance of the law is no defense of the law. So I really hope that you're not counting on Scott motors to take responsibility for anything that is under your control. Because that will never happen. Car manufacturers don't even take responsibility for bad product design as it is now. They are mostly not held accountable.
 
Last edited:
Given that "Full FSD" remains a pipe-dream even for Tesla I don't think SM needs to waste time or resources pursuing that mirage. Even companies like Waymo that have working autonomous cabs driving around only do so in very specific areas and even then they still struggle with basic problems like traffic cones after years of research. So I agree with what you say, most owners will be very happy with Level 2+. FSD has been promised for almost 15 years and is still not much more than a tech demo despite the lies Musk tries to peddle that it's coming "next year" (it's been "coming next year" since 2014). It's all hype and very little substance.
Full self driving in Tesla's exist now. Just talked to my buddy who has a Tesla the other day full self-driving. He said it's absolutely functional has been. People just aren't aware.
 
The issue with FSD is that as smart as AI is, it will never be able to replace the human brain for driving, think about your phone in the driver's seat with Google or safari or another web browser open, and it needing to look both ways with the camera app, it's impossible because its on another app. AI would have to be a lot smarter and faster than it is now to be able to drive a car like a human, sure are the beta's and all the other things ADAS driving, yeah sure they are, as smooth and as reliable as a human? no. Think about all the stuff we do in a car while driving, changing the radio, thinking about what needs to be done, talking.
Never is a very definitive statement. Not really sure what you mean by your analogy with your phone use. It doesn't make any sense. That's not how self-driving technology works. And your phone if you have the latest and greatest is probably way more powerful than the current systems in vehicles that are doing driving assist at full self-driving. The systems in a car don't have to worry about changing the radio and doing all the other things that we do. That's what we're there for. The systems just have to worry about controlling the car in a safe way.
 
You take your eyes off the road all the time when you're driving. You should be scanning. The side of the roads behind you, your gauges. You're constantly looking around. You may just not realize it. Adaptive cruise with driver's assist allows you to take your hands off the steering wheel and your foot off the gas and brake isn't that great.

People have weird dreams. The greatest thing is, if you're that worried about it you don't have to use it.
Take the abrasiveness down a few notches and perhaps I’ll reply to you.
 
I was thinking that. Like what if corner of eye you see two deer running toward side of car. Will FSD pick that up and stop you? Is it smart enough to speed up instead to avoid the deer hitting you. It’s one thing if issues are on road but what about reaction to things like that or a car you sense coming through an intersection-will it be able to handle that. I think of it as 6th sense items
Well things that has cameras 360° and it can watch those all simultaneously it's much better than human in that sense. I don't know why people keep comparing these systems with a human brain. It doesn't have to sense everything a human brain is sensing and control all of the things that human brain is controlling at the same time. The requirement for driver assist or even full self driving is a tiny fraction of the ability that human brain has to have to make you survive and function properly. There's much more going on in the human body and in the environment to a human than to a vehicle.

So perfect example. The other day my buddy's driving his Tesla in a fast-moving heavy traffic situation. There was a car making the right pulling out in front of him into a fast-moving highway. He pulled up and was clearing his left looked in front of him the car took off he looked to the left to clear punch the gas to take off. The car stopped while his foot was on the accelerator to the floor. Why because as he was looking left and punching it to jump into the freeway like the car in front of him did. The car in front of him stopped as soon as it got onto the freeway for some reason. He said his foot was completely to the floor and the Tesla stopped completely to avoid an accident. He said I absolutely would have crashed in the back of that car my foot was to the floor and the car stopped on its own even though my foot was to the floor. So there's a real world example of what you were talking about.
 
No I read your post about Rivian and how they're doing self-driving. I watched the video that you posted. Which is how everyone else is doing self-driving. And when I say self-driving, I mean all drivers Assistance programs including full self-driving. And they are still behind compared to other OEMs and Open Pilot. I feel that there is a better option and that things will eventually move to third party. Just like Android Auto and Apple Maps. Why waste the time resources and money developing and maintaining something when someone else is already doing it. And they are doing that one thing very well. Just like, why would you put an OEM navigation system in a vehicle when everyone uses Android Auto and Apple Maps for the most part. Ford's taking their navigation system out of their vehicles now because of this. I feel that's probably going to be the way of the future. And why not it saves you a ton of money as an OEM. I think that Open Pilot is a great idea that's why I reference them. Is there something better right now? I don't know. I don't think so. It can easily have checks and balances put in place if you need be. I just received my Comma 3X device to put in my F-150 today. And if I buy a scout later and it doesn't perform the way I want to as far as self-driving goes. I can order a wiring harness when they develop it which will be quickly and put the comma 3x in that.

I'm not sure what you mean by you say my post is suspect? Are you developing some sort of conspiracy theory? Ha Ha. I think the majority of scout purchasers are probably going to be looking for a vehicle that was promised at a price that was promised at, as far as pre-orders go. Purchasers once the vehicles on the market are all going to be looking for something that's competitive in the market as far as offerings at a price they're willing to pay. Just like any other vehicle. I think scout has done a very good job at selling a brand and a culture for their brand, to get started. At the end of the day the majority of people buying scouts are going to be people that are looking for, probably most important these days, is a good reliable vehicle for a good price. Those are the people that are going to sustain the company. You can't sustain a multibillion dollar company in a niche market. I'm sure VW is very aware of that.
The problem with that comparison is that if CarPlay fails you lose a connection, turn around and back track. If FSD Comma fails people/lives can be lost. Thats why car companies can chance CarPlay and integrate. People complain a lot about CarPlay connection issues, etc. but your phone is still there as back up. If Comma or third party fails it can be catastrophic. That’s where I see the biggest problem. SM won’t Guinea pig new battery tech and I highly doubt until it’s 100% proven successful with actuaries having to pre-determine loss of life pay outs that a major car manufacturer will consider gambling. Visionary efforts are great until loss of life occurs and if the tech isn’t crucial to daily life then it’s just not worth the risk
 
Last edited:
Well things that has cameras 360° and it can watch those all simultaneously it's much better than human in that sense. I don't know why people keep comparing these systems with a human brain. It doesn't have to sense everything a human brain is sensing and control all of the things that human brain is controlling at the same time. The requirement for driver assist or even full self driving is a tiny fraction of the ability that human brain has to have to make you survive and function properly. There's much more going on in the human body and in the environment to a human than to a vehicle.

So perfect example. The other day my buddy's driving his Tesla in a fast-moving heavy traffic situation. There was a car making the right pulling out in front of him into a fast-moving highway. He pulled up and was clearing his left looked in front of him the car took off he looked to the left to clear punch the gas to take off. The car stopped while his foot was on the accelerator to the floor. Why because as he was looking left and punching it to jump into the freeway like the car in front of him did. The car in front of him stopped as soon as it got onto the freeway for some reason. He said his foot was completely to the floor and the Tesla stopped completely to avoid an accident. He said I absolutely would have crashed in the back of that car my foot was to the floor and the car stopped on its own even though my foot was to the floor. So there's a real world example of what you were talking about.
Real world but jumping the pedal without front verification is what causes accidents all the time. All said and done-in a polite way-you are trying to paddle upstream here with a majority thus far that aren’t willing to get in the same boat but hey-fight the good fight! That said-Jamie already stated where SM is at this point so perhaps time will tell.
 
Take the abrasiveness down a few notches and perhaps I’ll reply to you.

That’s a great way to describe it. For example when a light turns green I give it a beat. Look to make sure everyone is stopping. And when turning if there is a car in front of me I don’t even bother looking to the right or left to plan my turn until the car in front of me is gone. Too many times people start a turn and don’t complete it for whatever reason. I don’t trust FSD to take those things into account.
You're right, it wouldn't be a very good system if it didn't. Shouldn't be a problem with today's technology. I think the only restrictions are as good as the humans developing it these days. If they are good the system will be good. If they thought about these things and the programming is there to deal with them it should work. If they haven't well then it won't. And that's why you're there to take over.