Plug in hybrid.
- Thread starter pmaier30
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Isn't that what the Harvester is for? Seems a lot of development cost would be needed to use a much more powerful ICE engine and lose the frunk to go to a more traditional plugin hybrid solution, for in my eyes at least, no real added benefit.
Luckily, the Harvester is a plug in hybrid
.Given, there are two categories of plug in hybrid (Serial, and Parallel). And the harvester is going to be a Serial plug in hybrid, which at the moment, is less common.
The real difference is that in a serial plug in hybrid, the gas motor doesn't directly drive the wheels of the vehicle (no mechanical connection between the engine and the wheels, no Transmission, no driveshafts, nothing). Instead it simply generates electricity to drive the wheels. This is simpler, and lets people design the vehicle more like an EV.
A parallel hybrid, can power the wheels with both the electric motor, and the gas engine at the same time (ie, in "parallel"). It has some benefit, because you can use a smaller electric motor/and or get more power output, and otherwise basically use a normal combustion vehicle drivetrain.
Some in the industry have started calling Series hybrids "extended range electric vehicles", but there really isn't anything specific to the architecture that makes it any more or less "extended range" than a parallel hybrid. Instead, they just tend to have larger battery packs, and they end up calling the gas engine the "range extender".
Anyway, the Harvester version of the scouts is supposed to have 150 miles of EV only range, and then fire up the gas engine and drive until the gas tank runs dry (and repeat as you'd like), for a total of 500 miles of range. Once you fill up, you'll only go another ~350 miles though (assuming you didn't also recharge the battery to 100%).
Most parallel PHEV's, have a range of ~30-40 miles or so in the USA... because there was some tax credit stuff that you didn't qualify for unless you hit a minimum of 30 miles of range. But they "could" have larger batteries if they wanted.
Nailed the explanation while I was typing it. I'm a bit confused by the original question - is this commentary on rumors that Scout is making the Harvester first and BEV second? Or is this asking if the EREV qualifies as a Plug in hybrid, which it certainly should.
Some clarification here (at least in Scout's case)...
In everyday usage, the Harvester system will look at the load on the vehicle, speed, temp, pitch, and yaw, and a variety of other variables, including navigation system plots, GPS location (for road and grade info), and more, and decide whether to activate the gasoline engine to support the current draw on the battery. There will be an "ECO" mode that maximizes pure battery-electric driving as much as possible, but the engine will kick in before the battery is completely drained. In nearly all normal driving conditions, you will run out of fuel before you run out of battery. This means you can fill the fuel tank and keep driving. The gasoline engine can be used off-road and while stationary (like when camping) to add more juice to the battery pack. If you go boon docking for three weeks in the woods and bring a couple of jerry cans, you can keep going without worrying.
So you shouldn't think of it as draining the battery pack and then running off the engine. The system (in automatic mode) will have so much data that it will generally know when to start charging to stay ahead of current use.
Thanks Jamie!
So "ECO" mode will be the same idea as the "EV" drive mode on my Hyundai Tucson PHEV. It will prioritize staying in EV mode at all costs... until it cannot.
Small question though. Given all of the parameters, it seems like Nav input would be among the most crucial, to know if you're heading up a pass/etc. How does that work with... things like Carplay/AndroidAuto, as the current generations don't mix data with the vehicle afaik.
Android Auto can. It can both read from the vehicle’s bus (if allowed by the manufacturer) and can send navigation information back to the vehicle.
I can’t speak for Carplay—I’ve never used it.
Yes, ECO would try and maximize battery usage before the engine kicks in.
The nav system and GPS are still active when you drive around the only piece missing is the destination. Although newer versions of CarPlay will feed some navigation info to the car, I'm not sure where that line starts and stops.
In the end, it is really easy to measure even tiny amounts of resistance with electric motors, so any changes in load (speed, wind, weight, etc., etc.) will be easy to detect.
Thanks Jamie.
I have a question for the opposite side of the coin:
Do you have any information about whether and if so how long will a Scout with the Harvester be able to run if there is no fuel in the tank? Can it behave as an EV (albeit with a small battery), or will it go into some kind of limp mode until you refuel it?
I think it depends on the use case naturally. But under normal operating conditions the fuel will run out before the battery. Whether that leaves 10% or 20% remains to be seen, but you get the general idea. Keep in mind it will remind you fuel is low just like any ICE vehicle, so pulling in somewhere to get fuel should seem normal.
Right, it’ll give you plenty of warning. And I trust that.
My question is more: can one purposely (or accidentally) drive the Harvester model without gasoline? And even recharge the battery but not refuel the tank. Leaving aside why one would want to do that, would the Harvester protect itself and switch into a (low-range) EV mode until it received a signal that fuel had been added?
Yes, absolutely. There is roughly 150 mile of pure BEV range. So let’s say you run out of fuel, you would still have a certain percentage of battery left to get you to either a gas station for more fuel, or a battery charger to top off the battery. Yes, the system will know when the fuel tank is near empty and you should have ample warning.
Let’s say you tried to force the system to drain everything by driving 90mph up an 6% grade for two hours straight while towing max (as an unrealistic example). You wouldn’t have a scenario where you tow uphill at 90mph for hours, but let’s just run with it. In this case you would get warnings that fuel is running out or warnings that the generator can’t keep pace and you need to slow down or pull over to let it charge back up a bit. Either way you will be notified well before you run out of fuel or battery.
Fantastic. Not all plug-in hybrids will allow running on pure EV without fuel. I'm happy to hear Scout is planning for this kind of possibility.
I think the series hybrid gives us options to do this in ways that make sense and give customers the most flexibility.
Agreed.
I’m glad Scout’s taking advantage of those options. It gives me confidence that for the BEV there will have been similar exploration of options that might have been left on the table by another company or other team of engineers who are used to doing things a particular way. It’s good to see fresh ideas making their way in the world today.
Gives me more trust in the Harvester system. My reasons for a Harvester keep growing. Especially for when i need to start towing the F-150 to car shows in the future.
Ok, ok, ok, but suppose (hear me out) while you’re towing up that hill, an alien ship suddenly beams gas out of your tank, right at the same moment the vehicle is struck by lightning, disabling the battery. Would I end up having to call AAA?
I think the scouts are equipped with alien beam, electric generation. So as it’s hit, it turns into energy and powers the motors.Ok, ok, ok, but suppose (hear me out) while you’re towing up that hill, an alien ship suddenly beams gas out of your tank, right at the same moment the vehicle is struck by lightning, disabling the battery. Would I end up having to call AAA?
So this brings up a long debated question about the Harvester. Scout has claimed 500 miles of range, which is fantastic. A few unanswered questions have come up:
- Is the Harvester a Gas and Go vehicle? What I mean is say the trip for the day is 600 miles, are we going to have to stop and charge at some point, or can we top off on gas and keep going?
- There are places where charging is difficult. If we’re in a place where charging is not an option, can we top off the tank and be safe to keep going?
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