Mechanical locking 4x4 over automatic

[J Alynn]

Yes cyrue.

Everyone knows 4x4 is kind of a gimmick. They want to sell you the idea.. they've been selling the idea for decades. There are many articles and data on the subject. A real farm truck is 2wheel drive with a tough frame and truck bed.. stake pockets to heighten the carry capacity with wood frames. No bells and whistles to repair. More time to farm than repair is the idea. I' love a base model that's stripped down but I'm still excited for the Terra.. buttons, bench seat.. big rear window.

Do You Really Need AWD in the Snow? - Consumer Reports

Automakers have long boasted that AWD, or all-wheel drive, is all you need to get your car through winter's fury. Consumer Reports' exclusive tests tell a different story.

www.consumerreports.org

I think Terra has to placate the general public to compete.. which is frustrating because the true farm truck is in their grasp. Also a trap door in the bed for the fuel pump to be replaced when it fails is a good farm truck ideal. Not a cooler for alcoholics. They use to have a fuel pump behind the driver's seat in ICE.. but ruled unsafe.. so now it's an expensive labor intensive job on most vehicles with special wrench. The costs of labor add up if the farming shade tree mechanic has to put up with mouse traps of repairs. Mechanic vs engineer. Will there be a jack that comes with the truck? Looks heavy.

I’m really confused. What point are you making -you jumped from manual locking hubs to 4 wd being a gimmick to being an alcoholic if you put a cooler in your bed.
I feel like you are asking for a stripped down RV farm truck. Is that what you are wanting? I ask because with the announcement of the Slate pick-up truck that may be the ideal truck for your needs. Just trying to understand what you want out of SM because there was a lot of jumping around in your thoughts. I’ve enjoy offering thoughts to new members over the past handful of years but just unsure what to offer to help better understand the Scouts

 

[Chuckles]

Yes cyrue.

Everyone knows 4x4 is kind of a gimmick. They want to sell you the idea.. they've been selling the idea for decades. There are many articles and data on the subject. A real farm truck is 2wheel drive with a tough frame and truck bed.. stake pockets to heighten the carry capacity with wood frames. No bells and whistles to repair. More time to farm than repair is the idea. I' love a base model that's stripped down but I'm still excited for the Terra.. buttons, bench seat.. big rear window.

Do You Really Need AWD in the Snow? - Consumer Reports

Automakers have long boasted that AWD, or all-wheel drive, is all you need to get your car through winter's fury. Consumer Reports' exclusive tests tell a different story.

www.consumerreports.org

I think Terra has to placate the general public to compete.. which is frustrating because the true farm truck is in their grasp. Also a trap door in the bed for the fuel pump to be replaced when it fails is a good farm truck ideal. Not a cooler for alcoholics. They use to have a fuel pump behind the driver's seat in ICE.. but ruled unsafe.. so now it's an expensive labor intensive job on most vehicles with special wrench. The costs of labor add up if the farming shade tree mechanic has to put up with mouse traps of repairs. Mechanic vs engineer. Will there be a jack that comes with the truck? Looks heavy.

Interesting that you quote Consumer Reports (a very old CR article, BTW). Nobody sucks more AWD Subaru d@#k than Consumer Reports.

 

[Chaz26]

Okay well I have a question. Let’s say the current Scout Traveler/Terra model was what it looks like now but it had manual lockers, would you buy one?

The other question is, would it be a deal breaker to anyone else if there was only manual lockers available? I certainly wouldn't be too keen on that.

 

[cyure]

The other question is, would it be a deal breaker to anyone else if there was only manual lockers available? I certainly wouldn't be too keen on that.

Also a good question. I would not be too keen on it either.

 

[Mousehunter]

I was confused, did some googling, probably still confused-maybe worse. But this is what my pathetic googlefu came up with. Other than some dedicated offroad only vehicle, if you have rear wheel drive, you will have a rear differential. Lockers lock the rear differential. The rear axle will be live, so rear hub lockouts are not really useful. Assuming you have 4 wheel drive, you will have a transfer case that can divert power to the front axle. The front axle will have a differential as well (if it is not a dedicated off road vehicle). The front tires will spin the front axles, the differential will allow them to spin at different speeds. There is a slight efficiency advantage if you also have front hub lockouts - which allow the front hubs to spin without spinning the axle. You may or may not have a locker in the front differential.

The best I can understand is that Ford has automatic lockouts on their front hubs, with a backup manual lockout for when vacume system used by the automatic system fails (plenty of people say that is only a matter of time), or because the wheels are not spinning (you did not engage before you got stuck) and the automatic lockouts will not engage. Chevy and Dodge (and now Ford on some models) are doing something else now and I really don't understand it at all yet.

 

[J Alynn]

The other question is, would it be a deal breaker to anyone else if there was only manual lockers available? I certainly wouldn't be too keen on that.

I don’t want manual. That’s like going back before my butler spread my grey upon on my sandwich for me-but enough first world pleasures-back to Scout stuff!

 

[Scoutsie]

I wish it to be manual. Get out and turn 4x4...a problem always occurs with automatic engagement.

Everyone knows 4x4 is kind of a gimmick.

Are you sure that what you’re wearing is a top hat and not a bottom hat?

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

You couldn’t pay me to drive a vehicle with manual-locking hubs. With 40+ years of offroad driving experience, the first time I was able to buy a vehicle with 4WD and without manual hubs was the best 4WD experience of my life. I hate manual locking hubs. They’re unreliable. They’re a pain to use. They jam at the slightest hint of dust, mud, snow, ice, or anything other than perfect mall crawler conditions. They make everything worse.

A truck with an interface to engage or disengage the hubs might be helpful for setting up freewheeling for things like towing behind an RV. I wouldn’t buy the option, but I understand the desire some have to have that option.

But manual hubs? No, thanks, I want to live in the 2030s, not the 1970s.

 

[Xlargetophat]

Well my neighbor is adamant on manual hubs because of vacuum leaks which engage it on ice vehicle... But electric means another electric motor.. which means more fail.. more expensive.. more depressing when it does fail.

There is a man principle at stake for manual engagement as well. Base model means base model on principle.

Manual hubs are a metaphor for anything on it mechanical. Rae earth motors add expense and are most likely brush motors. 200,000 mile failure rate.
Do you want to pay for electric hubs when they charge you for manual? We're talking base here.. the definition of base.

Farming is farming. The seasons come and go. A farmer farms regardless of economics. A good base wood hauler and what not to last the stretch. Not be riddled with mouse traps of repairs for quarterly report earnings.

Google AI

Providing precise mathematical data on the average number of days a person in Minnesota uses 4WD each year is difficult. Such statistics are not typically collected in a way that allows for a simple calculation. However, the situation can be analyzed using available data:
Analysis of mathematical data
Days with snow cover: Minnesota averages 110 days annually with at least 1 inch of snow cover.
Number of winter events: MnDOT crews clear snow and ice off highways during an average of 24 to 31 winter events statewide. These events can range from light snowfall to severe blizzards.
Frequency of bare lanes: MnDOT aims for 70% bare lanes after winter events and achieves around 84% frequency. This suggests that roads are often clear, limiting the need for 4WD.
Influence of tire choice: Dedicated winter tires improve traction on snow and ice, potentially reducing the need for 4WD, according to Nelson Personal Injury.
----
110 days in Minnesota of 1 inch? LoL

We have a bunch of wussies. You can get out there and turn them hubs son. Don't get mad at me.. they're the ones charging you an inflated base price for something that's not base. Scout Motors doesn't have the balls to offer manual. Unfortunately

 

[R1TVT]

So, we should all get a rear-wheel drive flat-bed farm truck (without being a 4X4) BUT with manual locking front hubs (even though they won't work b/c it is a rear wheel drive truck) because of your neighbor?

 

[Scoutsie]

We have a bunch of wussies. You can get out there and turn them hubs son. Don't get mad at me.. they're the ones charging you an inflated base price for something that's not base. Scout Motors doesn't have the balls to offer manual. Unfortunately

I’m a woman, broseph. Check your sons and balls at the door.

Also, don’t even come at me with any tough guy nonsense until someone adjusts a suture in your eye without anesthesia.

 

[Xlargetophat]

I’m a woman, broseph. Check your sons and balls at the door.

Also, don’t even come at me with any tough guy nonsense until someone adjusts a suture in your eye without anesthesia.

Shovels. Gravel roads. Knowledge to know when to use 4x4 and when to know you're being fooled.

R1TVT.. base is base. Engagement. Front back whatever

 

[Scoutsie]

Shovels. Gravel roads. Knowledge to know when to use 4x4 and when to know you're being fooled.

R1TVT.. base is base

Why is this the hill you are choosing to die on?

 

[Xlargetophat]

Why is this the hill you are choosing to die on?

Scout Motors. If they proudly offered manual locking hubs. That'd be something

 

[cyure]

Scout Motors. If they proudly offered manual locking hubs. That'd be something

Okay well if they aren’t? Then what? I went to Nats and saw the concepts and they are gorgeous. I’m all in. And I asked how close they are to production. I was informed they are 85% of what the production Scouts will be. So we can expect some changes but I highly doubt they are going to make a vehicle with the technology they are putting into it and then throw manual old school lockers on it.

So if the Terra is what it is today with only 15% changed and no manual lockers do you buy one?

 

[Scoutsie]

Scout Motors. If they proudly offered manual locking hubs. That'd be something

Ohhhhhhh.

Okay.

Thank you for letting me know that you are a crazy person.

 

[J Alynn]

Well my neighbor is adamant on manual hubs because of vacuum leaks which engage it on ice vehicle... But electric means another electric motor.. which means more fail.. more expensive.. more depressing when it does fail.

There is a man principle at stake for manual engagement as well. Base model means base model on principle.

Manual hubs are a metaphor for anything on it mechanical. Rae earth motors add expense and are most likely brush motors. 200,000 mile failure rate.
Do you want to pay for electric hubs when they charge you for manual? We're talking base here.. the definition of base.

Farming is farming. The seasons come and go. A farmer farms regardless of economics. A good base wood hauler and what not to last the stretch. Not be riddled with mouse traps of repairs for quarterly report earnings.

Google AI

Providing precise mathematical data on the average number of days a person in Minnesota uses 4WD each year is difficult. Such statistics are not typically collected in a way that allows for a simple calculation. However, the situation can be analyzed using available data:
Analysis of mathematical data
Days with snow cover: Minnesota averages 110 days annually with at least 1 inch of snow cover.
Number of winter events: MnDOT crews clear snow and ice off highways during an average of 24 to 31 winter events statewide. These events can range from light snowfall to severe blizzards.
Frequency of bare lanes: MnDOT aims for 70% bare lanes after winter events and achieves around 84% frequency. This suggests that roads are often clear, limiting the need for 4WD.
Influence of tire choice: Dedicated winter tires improve traction on snow and ice, potentially reducing the need for 4WD, according to Nelson Personal Injury.
----
110 days in Minnesota of 1 inch? LoL

We have a bunch of wussies. You can get out there and turn them hubs son. Don't get mad at me.. they're the ones charging you an inflated base price for something that's not base. Scout Motors doesn't have the balls to offer manual. Unfortunately

Any chance @Jamie@ScoutMotors can shed some light on whether manual hibs are even an option at this point and time? Thanks Jamie

 

[J Alynn]

Scout Motors. If they proudly offered manual locking hubs. That'd

To each their own!

 

[Xlargetophat]

Okay well if they aren’t? Then what? I went to Nats and saw the concepts and they are gorgeous. I’m all in. And I asked how close they are to production. I was informed they are 85% of what the production Scouts will be. So we can expect some changes but I highly doubt they are going to make a vehicle with the technology they are putting into it and then throw manual old school lockers on it.

So if the Terra is what it is today with only 15% changed and no manual lockers do you buy one?

Yeah I'm buying one. August 11th, I'll be seeing what Ford is offering. I guess

 

[cyure]

Yeah I'm buying one. August 11th, I'll be seeing what Ford is offering. I guess

I saw that about Ford. I saw something today that says they are shooting for under $25,000. We will see.

Here’s the only other recommendation I have. I saw the concepts in person. It’s so different seeing them in person then just pictures on a computer screen. When they get close enough to you I would highly recommend going to see them in person. I love the Traveler even more now and I’m so ready to have mine in my garage.