Well now here’s the next question. Since there’s an engine would they use the heat from said engine to help heat the cabin or no because it might not be running all the time?
Is there anything SM could offer to get you to switch from EREV to BEV?
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It doesn’t take much to build a basic a logic check in that says something like, “if the engine is running, use its waste heat; if it’s not running, use the heat pump; if you need more than the heat pump can generate, then start the engine.”
Well stated and I'm sure power management will be handled elegantly through software. That said, towing may not be as simple as gas and go. Charging will still be inportant in many scenarios so the weeks long boondocking trips people are touting EREVs for may not be as care free as first thought to be. The good news is that charging infrastructure is soldiering on!
I guess if someone wanted to refill 30 gallons of jerry cans at every other stop on their summer towing/boondocking trip, they could recharge the truck and then refuel it… Seems like a lot of time spent at a refueling station, a lot of gas smells permeating the area, and…
There is no requirement that the vehicle pass the Davis Dam test on ICE power alone. The whole point of having a large battery pack is that it can use both the battery and ICE generator in order to pass the test.
Bottom line is that the engine does NOT need to produce 275 HP.
That's your fault if you show up at the bottom of a jumbo hill with an empty battery and a trailer. Same way your heavy-duty diesel would fail the test if you show up with your tank on fumes.
Right-o
For that edge use case, you should always make sure you've got what you need in the battery beforehand or at some point in that journey, just pull over and idle for 15-20 minutes, whatever necessary to get you up and over at safe pace. You'll get a big whopping amount of juice on the way down from both regen and harvester.
Interesting note acquired along they way, Harvester should fill that battery from Reserve to 100% in about an hour at idle. With charging curves what they are, 120kw capable 4 cyl seems spot on. That's one capability I think folks tend to forget about - there's no excuse in setting off on a multi-day backcountry excursion with anything less than a full battery and a full tank of gas. Order of operations.
If anyone has the actual spec, would love to see it. I've searched the heck out of the subject and have found references that do say it requires "minimal battery level" required to operate the system - but without the SAE spec in hand $$$, we're all subject to hallucination.
You’re missing the point of the question.
The question was not does it have to, but *could* the Harvester alone pull a fully-loaded trailer up a steep slope in the Rocky Mountains with a low battery. The Davis Dam test is a less-difficult version of the question posed. To achieve the Davis Dam test, they will absolutely be using a full battery and a full gas tank. To achieve a 60 mph tow on I-70 up the 8% grade of the Ike Gauntlet, towing a fully-loaded trailer and with a low battery, the Harvester would need to produce the HP I presented in previous posts.
Based on what Jamie has said in the past, the answer is no. The Harvester had the power for towing a light trailer at highway speeds without depleting the battery at all with the Harvester running, but heavier loads or hill climbs will rely on juice from the battery. This was awhile ago now, and things might've changed, but it stuck in my head. Obviously, that didn't give us any clue if we're talking about a small 6x12 flat trailer, or something with a lot of wind resistance, but I'd assume the former.
I have the Feb 2020 spec, but cannot share the document per NDA.
The 2020 spec does not have any consideration for type of propulsion mechanism. It doesn’t matter if the vehicle uses gasoline, diesel, hydrogen, electricity, or any other source of energy. What matters is the performance (acceleration minimums) and that the GCWR rating to be sold is the GCWR rating that is tested. There was an update in 2024, but nothing I’ve seen in the update notes addresses propulsion systems to the detail you’re asking about.
The standard does require that the rating and testing be based on the vehicle base curb weight, one 150 pound driver, one 150 pound front seat passenger, 100 pounds of optional equipment, and the trailering package. A vehicle’s curb weight includes a full tank of fuel, when relevant. It would be dumb of a manufacturer of an EREV not to use the fuel if it improves the tow rating. But there’s no requirement in J2807 that they do.
The standard also says that any vehicle with selectable propulsion/powertrain for trailering should be operated during the test as per the manufacturer’s instructions.
I read your post as proposing that Scout would need to limit the advertised towing capacity of the Harvester due to a limitation of the rig to haul with only the ICE. Based on all of the drama around tow ratings for Harvester here on the board, I wanted to make it clear to people that the final tow rating would be based on a combination of battery and Harvester.
Yeah, I started the conversation as a thought exercise mostly because I am curious about the performance envelop of the EREV. I had no intention of fear mongering. I want to understand the level of planning required to manage past the initial 150 miles of battery range. There is so much talk about gas and go as if it is simply a non-issue. Clearly it will be an issue for some that requires engieering and route planning much like a BEV. Trip distance from Burlington Colorado to Grand Juntion is a great example. The distance is 410 miles. If a user doesn't understand their tech, they absolutely will have trouble in the mountains of Colorado if they are towing, perhaps even a light camper trailer. Most people don't understand how their hybrids work and have no idea how they will perform. They jus tread the marketing. Gas and go, tow rating 7500 pounds. The details @SpaceEVDriver provides are super helpful to further my personal understanding. The good news to me is that my initial question/cocnern about a loaded vehicle sceanrio (no towing) appears to be unfounded when it comes to mountain driving on a depleted battery.
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