Is there anything SM could offer to get you to switch from EREV to BEV?

[SpaceEVDriver]

I haven't been to any, or fully read into the Walmart chargers other than I'm aware they're doing it. Do you know if they will be putting both NACS and CCS cables on their chargers from the get go? The more stations between now and then that have both or just NACS the better to save needing adapters. I already have a CCS to NACS adapter but since it was for my Tesla and I got it back in 2022 it is only rated for up to 400V.

The non-EA Walmart chargers include plugs for both CCS1 and NACS.

Walmart EV Charging Network Grows With 10 Stations Now Live

As of the beginning of November, the Walmart EV charging network has expanded to 10 DC fast-charging locations. Twelve more are "coming soon".

evchargingstations.com

 

[J Alynn]

Honestly, I am happy if the DCFC charging locations provide bathrooms and a place to buy drinks/snacks.

With my HI5 I only need to stop at a DCFC for about 20 minutes (thanks to the 800V architecture). And since that's after 2.5 to 3 hours of driving I want a bio-break. That's one of the reasons I was happy when Walmart announced they were putting DCFC at all their stories. There are a lot of Electrify America DCFCs in Walmarts (which are going to be replaced with WalMart versions, I know), and I aim for them if I can when route planning. Now that Walmart is doing DCFC in all their locations, finding a DCFC with bathrooms and food/drinks while traveling will be a lot easier.

I agree with you there. I just think some “cheap” entertainment to soothe the worry of 20-25 minute stops might help those only reading the negative stories. But like you said, if you try to time it with food and bathroom breaks it makes it that much easier

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I agree with you there. I just think some “cheap” entertainment to soothe the worry of 20-25 minute stops might help those only reading the negative stories. But like you said, if you try to time it with food and bathroom breaks it makes it that much easier

About the only “spare” time I’d have during a charging stop is for a few rounds of Mrs. Pac-Man or Galaga.
Put in retro arcades with the retro-look Ionnas, and we might seek them out.

 

[Chaz26]

I agree with you there. I just think some “cheap” entertainment to soothe the worry of 20-25 minute stops might help those only reading the negative stories. But like you said, if you try to time it with food and bathroom breaks it makes it that much easier

Hopefully they’ll have good entertainment options. I can watch Netflix and also have YouTube TV for live TV in my Tesla which is great. I use that when my wife goes into clothes or makeup stores while we’re out shopping so it’s useful even when not charging

 

[J Alynn]

Hopefully they’ll have good entertainment options. I can watch Netflix and also have YouTube TV for live TV in my Tesla which is great. I use that when my wife goes into clothes or makeup stores while we’re out shopping so it’s useful even when not charging

I find it more fun to just go in and stare at people oddly.

 

[BeerParty]

I haven't been to any, or fully read into the Walmart chargers other than I'm aware they're doing it. Do you know if they will be putting both NACS and CCS cables on their chargers from the get go? The more stations between now and then that have both or just NACS the better to save needing adapters. I already have a CCS to NACS adapter but since it was for my Tesla and I got it back in 2022 it is only rated for up to 400V.

According to the info I have seen, Walmart DCFC chargers will "include NACS and CCS fast-charging connectors." Here is an article about them:

EXCLUSIVE: Walmart EV Charging Network — Save Money, Charge Better

In an exclusive with State Of Charge's Tom Moloughney, the announcement of the Walmart EV charging network with ultra-fast DC fast-charging has gone live.

evchargingstations.com

 

[Crazychicken563]

Bit late to the party but I'll go ahead and answer the original question that started this thread.

I reserved the EREV Terra, and I currently own a full EV. It's a 2021 Polestar 2 that gets 200 miles of range on a full charge even on its best day. Usually I'm charging to 90% and getting 180 miles. The point is that I am more than familiar with limited range, and the reservation for the EREV has absolutely nothing to do with "range anxiety" (which seems to be a major marketing point of the EREV and just doesn't make any sense to me)

My goals with the EREV were to tow my race car to locations that don't have easy access to electric charging while at the same time having an EV-only daily driver that can easily handle my sub 80 miles commute and be charged at home for the next day.

If the EREV can't tow then I have zero reason to switch to BEV.. I already own one, so I'll just cancel the reservation.

My hope is that the EREV fits a niche in the market that current plug in hybrids fail to do. Afaik, all of them cannot tow enough, and most of them have pitiful range due to driveshafts taking up precious space that batteries could be filling. Also, all plug in hybrids I've seen do not have enough EV only range for my day to day driving, but the Scout promises 150 miles EV only range on the EREV which is just about double what I need.

For me it's really just between the Scout and the Ramcharger for a replacement vehicle. But the Ramcharger is completely overspec'ed, oversized, and well, it's modern day Stellantis so I just generally don't have much faith in it being particularly good. I tried uconnect and really disliked it... Android Auto not working in full screen for many years now was all I needed to know about the quality and care for their software.

The Scout EREV Terra hits everything for me - beautiful looking UX for the infotainment, gorgeous looks, enough EV range for daily driving, a gas generator for my niche activities, a reasonable price as far as I'm aware, and the only question mark is if the EREV Terra can pull 7k lbs (preferably more). Still waiting on the exact number, but that will make or break everything for me. Doesn't matter if the BEV Terra can pull a million lbs, the range is just not going to be sufficient with a trailer and the locations I want to visit.

So, with all that said, to answer the original question, unless Scout can make a BEV with 500 miles of TOWING range, then nothing is going to change my mind about the EREV. And even then, charging with a trailer sounds like a huge pita compared to a pull through gas station, so maybe not even that would change my mind.

 

[SrfnFly227]

Bit late to the party but I'll go ahead and answer the original question that started this thread.

I reserved the EREV Terra, and I currently own a full EV. It's a 2021 Polestar 2 that gets 200 miles of range on a full charge even on its best day. Usually I'm charging to 90% and getting 180 miles. The point is that I am more than familiar with limited range, and the reservation for the EREV has absolutely nothing to do with "range anxiety" (which seems to be a major marketing point of the EREV and just doesn't make any sense to me)

My goals with the EREV were to tow my race car to locations that don't have easy access to electric charging while at the same time having an EV-only daily driver that can easily handle my sub 80 miles commute and be charged at home for the next day.

If the EREV can't tow then I have zero reason to switch to BEV.. I already own one, so I'll just cancel the reservation.

My hope is that the EREV fits a niche in the market that current plug in hybrids fail to do. Afaik, all of them cannot tow enough, and most of them have pitiful range due to driveshafts taking up precious space that batteries could be filling. Also, all plug in hybrids I've seen do not have enough EV only range for my day to day driving, but the Scout promises 150 miles EV only range on the EREV which is just about double what I need.

For me it's really just between the Scout and the Ramcharger for a replacement vehicle. But the Ramcharger is completely overspec'ed, oversized, and well, it's modern day Stellantis so I just generally don't have much faith in it being particularly good. I tried uconnect and really disliked it... Android Auto not working in full screen for many years now was all I needed to know about the quality and care for their software.

The Scout EREV Terra hits everything for me - beautiful looking UX for the infotainment, gorgeous looks, enough EV range for daily driving, a gas generator for my niche activities, a reasonable price as far as I'm aware, and the only question mark is if the EREV Terra can pull 7k lbs (preferably more). Still waiting on the exact number, but that will make or break everything for me. Doesn't matter if the BEV Terra can pull a million lbs, the range is just not going to be sufficient with a trailer and the locations I want to visit.

So, with all that said, to answer the original question, unless Scout can make a BEV with 500 miles of TOWING range, then nothing is going to change my mind about the EREV. And even then, charging with a trailer sounds like a huge pita compared to a pull through gas station, so maybe not even that would change my mind.

My answer is a page or 2 back, but I forgot to mention towing. I've said it elsewhere on the forum, but it's wort mentioning again on this thread. My original reason for reserving the EREV was towing my Jeep. Nearest offroad spot to me is about 230 miles away. I have zero trouble with the idea of a BEV for my normal daily driving. My wife and I only put about 8k miles on each vehicle per year. I would love to own a BEV, except I'd like to tow and towing 80-100 miles at a time with a 30+ minute charge time has never appealed to me. The Scout EREV was supposed to solve that. Unfortunately, the 5k weight limit would make the extended range useless since I can't tow the one thing I want to tow.

If the tow limit remains at 5k, I will not buy the EREV. Without a second thought about price, or maintenance schedule, or normal range, anything. I will not buy a vehicle with a 5k towing capacity (as my next vehicle). 3 years gives a bunch of other manufacturers time to design something I like as much of the Traveler so at that point it's probably a toss up.

 

[J. Sweat]

I have a Tesla so I don’t need to be talked into BEV or talked down to, either.

It wouldn’t take much to get me to switch; I just see the EREV as offering more options in edge cases, but it’s not critical.

 

[dleepnw]

500 miles of range and/or at least 300 kW charging speeds

 

[shutthefrontdoor]

Using 2024 wholesale shipments of travel trailers broken down by GVWR, I am getting the following:

Under 5k lbs: 28%
5-7k lbs: 42%
7k-10k lbs 20%
Over 10k lbs 10%

So clearly, Scout would be missing out on a large segment by limiting the EREV to 5k instead of 7k lbs.

I would argue that above 7k lbs, you would not be best served by an EREV unless perhaps it was diesel but that's not happening. Personally, I would choose a mid-tier diesel truck for towing above 7k lbs and use a BEV for daily driving. No range anxiety. Great at altitude and can carry extra fuel. (or get a larger fuel tank(s).

EREV is trying to do too much with too little if you want to tow large loads long distances and if you have smaller loads and aren't encumbered by a lack of DCFC, a BEV makes more sense. So who's left? Those that simply aren't ready to make the jump to BEV and a very small percentage of people that tow for who this would work out well. To me, that's not a cohort you can count on ponying up come order time.

I see EREV as a great concept but a huge gamble once the shine wears off and it's starting to already. Perhaps Scout is hoping that by then, battery densities will improve and BEV will be the ultimate solution and EREV will be dropped. Who will want those used EREV's then?

Perhaps if they had an economy EREV and a HD EREV with a diesel engine, all bases would be covered but going with just one that has a 5k GVWR limit misses the mark IMHO.

A Tesla Model 3 can be setup to tow a 22' Airstream with zero issues. You'll be stopping every 100 miles though so very dependent on DCFC's.

And yes, people tow other things and to remote locations but this was just an easy analysis to do. Also, I wouldn't want to be right up against any GVWR. Always best to have a good margin.

I will stick with my BEV choice and if I buy a travel trailer, I'll buy one and go places that works with it. For those that choose EREV, I hope it works out well for you. And for Scout.

 

[Crazychicken563]

I would choose a mid-tier diesel truck for towing above 7k lbs and use a BEV for daily driving

That's the key thing though - we know that generally there are perfectly adequate trucks that can tow and there are perfectly adequate EVs that can daily. The main attraction of the Terra EREV for me is that it just might be able to do both sufficiently well. I don't want to take care of two vehicles when I could just have one that does it all. Tbh I don't really have the room for two vehicles, and the wife is not going to be ok with me parking on the grass

 

[shutthefrontdoor]

Yes. I think that's the dilemma mainly. But anytime you are going a one size / one thing fits all route, there are often compromises. One of my concerns is simply that people aren't really thinking it through well enough and everyone got on the EREV bandwagon when perhaps the compromises will prove too much. Personally, I have the room and would buy a used diesel truck and keep my BEV or also buy a new BEV like the Scout. But if you don't have the room and need a new vehicle anyway, I certainly understand not wanting/being able to buy both vehicles.

My main point is that there is a considerable towing audience being cut out of the EREV share at 5k lbs GVWR. I was a little surprised by those numbers. How that factors into reservation holders I have no idea. I'm really just genuinely concerned that everyone is happy when they follow through on their choice.

Pretty much any EV can tow if setup properly (with modifications), just not to the range some people desire or need. I presume the 5k limitation of the EREV is a powertrain one and not a weight / towing issue.

I know all this has been discussed a lot but as I say, if 42% of travel trailer buyers are being missed by the EREV solution not being 7k and it's only relevant to 28% of that market you'd think they would have tried to hit 7k lbs. I'm fairly risk averse so it concerns me they have so much riding on the success of EREV.

 

[DaveGunter]

Bit late to the party but I'll go ahead and answer the original question that started this thread.

I reserved the EREV Terra, and I currently own a full EV. It's a 2021 Polestar 2 that gets 200 miles of range on a full charge even on its best day. Usually I'm charging to 90% and getting 180 miles. The point is that I am more than familiar with limited range, and the reservation for the EREV has absolutely nothing to do with "range anxiety" (which seems to be a major marketing point of the EREV and just doesn't make any sense to me)

My goals with the EREV were to tow my race car to locations that don't have easy access to electric charging while at the same time having an EV-only daily driver that can easily handle my sub 80 miles commute and be charged at home for the next day.

If the EREV can't tow then I have zero reason to switch to BEV.. I already own one, so I'll just cancel the reservation.

My hope is that the EREV fits a niche in the market that current plug in hybrids fail to do. Afaik, all of them cannot tow enough, and most of them have pitiful range due to driveshafts taking up precious space that batteries could be filling. Also, all plug in hybrids I've seen do not have enough EV only range for my day to day driving, but the Scout promises 150 miles EV only range on the EREV which is just about double what I need.

For me it's really just between the Scout and the Ramcharger for a replacement vehicle. But the Ramcharger is completely overspec'ed, oversized, and well, it's modern day Stellantis so I just generally don't have much faith in it being particularly good. I tried uconnect and really disliked it... Android Auto not working in full screen for many years now was all I needed to know about the quality and care for their software.

The Scout EREV Terra hits everything for me - beautiful looking UX for the infotainment, gorgeous looks, enough EV range for daily driving, a gas generator for my niche activities, a reasonable price as far as I'm aware, and the only question mark is if the EREV Terra can pull 7k lbs (preferably more). Still waiting on the exact number, but that will make or break everything for me. Doesn't matter if the BEV Terra can pull a million lbs, the range is just not going to be sufficient with a trailer and the locations I want to visit.

So, with all that said, to answer the original question, unless Scout can make a BEV with 500 miles of TOWING range, then nothing is going to change my mind about the EREV. And even then, charging with a trailer sounds like a huge pita compared to a pull through gas station, so maybe not even that would change my mind.

Spot on! Except I need 10K towing from the EREV or it’s a no go for me.

We’ve been all EV since early 2022, Mach-e and Ioniq5. Fully aware of the EV downfalls, esp in rural Maine. Just sold the Mach-e and bought a gas F250 because
-I don’t think Scout is going to deliver on the 10K towing
-we need something capable of towing next spring
-road tripping in an EV in cold weather SUCKS!

I’ll keep the reservation for now but the rumored Superduty EREV is on my radar and probably going to be a much better option.

 

[Crazychicken563]

Yes. I think that's the dilemma mainly. But anytime you are going a one size / one thing fits all route, there are often compromises. One of my concerns is simply that people aren't really thinking it through well enough and everyone got on the EREV bandwagon when perhaps the compromises will prove too much. Personally, I have the room and would buy a used diesel truck and keep my BEV or also buy a new BEV like the Scout. But if you don't have the room and need a new vehicle anyway, I certainly understand not wanting/being able to buy both vehicles.

My main point is that there is a considerable towing audience being cut out of the EREV share at 5k lbs GVWR. I was a little surprised by those numbers. How that factors into reservation holders I have no idea. I'm really just genuinely concerned that everyone is happy when they follow through on their choice.

Pretty much any EV can tow if setup properly (with modifications), just not to the range some people desire or need. I presume the 5k limitation of the EREV is a powertrain one and not a weight / towing issue.

I know all this has been discussed a lot but as I say, if 42% of travel trailer buyers are being missed by the EREV solution not being 7k and it's only relevant to 28% of that market you'd think they would have tried to hit 7k lbs. I'm fairly risk averse so it concerns me they have so much riding on the success of EREV.

Well, the important thing is that a 5k towing limit for the Terra EREV is not quite confirmed yet. once official specs hit I'm very curious to see both what they are and how the forums react...

And I totally agree that one size fits all will have compromises. For one, dailying a truck will make far less sense for me than dailying the sedan I currently have. A truck form factor generally doesn't make much sense for my day to day, but I will eat that compromise in exchange for being able to tow when I need to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The EREV has a compromised battery only range as well which is something I am also perfectly content with.

What's most important to me is that the Terra EREV does the things I want just well enough despite the various compromises it will have to make.

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

I’m starting to think if Ram can get it’s Poop in a Group, the Ram Rev may be the better truck for those that want an EREV that tows.

https://www.ramtrucks.com/electric/1500-rev.html

 

[Crazychicken563]

In theory yes, and it was the first EREV I was excited about. But I mentioned earlier I tried uconnect and hated it, and in general the ram is 2x more than I need in every way. Plus Stellantis, as you said. I'm not convinced they can execute a good EV, especially after the Dodge Charger EV

 

[Chaz26]

Well, the important thing is that a 5k towing limit for the Terra EREV is not quite confirmed yet. once official specs hit I'm very curious to see both what they are and how the forums react...

This is the key thing in my opinion. All they have really said about towing was when Scott said 5k in that one video. It might change for both vehicles or maybe the Terra EREV will be higher than the Traveller EREV when specs are finalized. Based on other non EV trucks vs SUVs the trucks have higher tow ratings so it wouldn’t surprise me if the Terra was higher. I think if the EV is 10,000 and they can get the EREV to at least 8,000 on the Terra then that would be sufficient for a decent majority of people. Of course it won’t be enough for everyone but there’s always compromises somewhere whatever you are trying to achieve.

 

[shutthefrontdoor]

Scout definitely fills a lot of buckets. If the EREV comes out with 7k of towing, they will make a lot of people happy. If it doesn't, harder choices. I like the RAM in theory but would never buy one. If something like that was well executed, you would think they would have a solid following.

If the harvester is using LFP, that would be one of the reasons it's limited to 5k. That pack will likely constrain things a bit during heavy towing. It might need to be derated to protect the battery and the generator and also to keep emissions in check.

It will be very interesting to see what the final configurations are! Who knows? The BEV could end up with 8k+ lbs of towing and even further differentiate itself from the harvester.

But all this is far too practical given many will just buy what they want according to their perceived criteria.

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

In theory yes, and it was the first EREV I was excited about. But I mentioned earlier I tried uconnect and hated it, and in general the ram is 2x more than I need in every way. Plus Stellantis, as you said. I'm not convinced they can execute a good EV, especially after the Dodge Charger EV

I like the UConnect 4 in my TRX. The UConnect5 (which I think was for 2023 models) has had its share of glitches.

At 6’8” I like the idea of a full size truck because I’m more comfortable. I’ve spent a few days this year in my brothers Colorado while hunting, and the seat bottoms just aren’t long enough for my legs. My hope is that Scout is somewhere between the Ram and the Colorado, that could fill a nice spot in the market!