Is there anything SM could offer to get you to switch from EREV to BEV?

[Chaz26]

I am going with BEV but I do have a question linked to what would it take to switch from EREV to BEV like free home charger installation. I'm curious, for those who are planning on the EREV, are you planning on installing L2 home charging, or just using the L1 charging through the standard wall outlet (or maybe even for some, not charging at all and using the gas generator to do all the charging work)?

 

[Scoutsie]

With all I have learned on this forum, looking at my driving use cases, and the fact that EVs are a lot less maintenance I have officially switched my reservation to a BEV. I’m on the EV bandwagon!

Now there’s been lots of discussion about which will come first, EREV or BEV. Let’s say the BEV comes out first could Scout offer something to entice EREV reservation holders to take the leap and buy a BEV.

What would it take to get you EREV reservation holders to purchase the BEV? A free home charger? Money towards the installation? Buy a BEV and get moved to the front of the line for an EREV (Rivian was doing that. If you leased an R1 it got you moved to the front of the line for an R2. They told me that when I test drove one last year).

What do you all think? You fence sitters what would push you over the edge??

I reserved an EREV. Honestly, I'm fine with a BEV, but I'm not going to be the only one driving it and there was hesitancy to adopt the BEV because of the range. I think education for my other driver (my mom) on the advantages of BEV, like the practical advantages (less maintenance = less expenses, cost analysis of EREV ownership v. BEV, and especially with an emphasis on costs) would go a long way. I've tried explaining, but it's one thing for the cost analysis to come from a credible third party versus daughter who is, in her mind's eye, still 6 years old and doesn't want to take a bath. Since we're still a ways off, I am cool with leaving that hundo allocated to where it is right now.

Throwing in free installation of a home charger probably wouldn't hurt. We have had bad luck with electricians and the task of finding an electrician in our area who isn't a turd (not forthcoming about who has a license, not filing permits, etc) has proved difficult, so I'd worry that free = "not good."

 

[mbowman90]

I signed up for the EREV mostly because all three of my grown kids are just beyond the BEV's range w/o stopping to recharge, and they aren't in the northeastern corridor where every single establishment seems to have charging stations. That and the lack of sufficient details to make a bit more of an informed decision. After I found out the reservation could be switched, I didn't sweat it. I will consider an EV depending on price, offered amenities, place in line, package upgrades compared to EREV, etc. Once more details come out I may switch, who knows? I'd like to get more information on the whole EREV concept. We talking a small generator? What is the MPG for that extra 350 miles over pure battery? Will it be more expensive or less than the BEV?

 

[chucchinchilla]

An eruption similar to St. Helens would also make relying on internal combustion engines very sketchy since they rely on clean air to do their combustion.

Slight tangent but worth mentioning volcanologist David Johnston and his Scout Traveler, observing Mt. St Helens just before eruption.

 

[cyure]

Slight tangent but worth mentioning volcanologist David Johnston and his Scout Traveler, observing Mt. St Helens just before eruption.
View attachment 11064
View attachment 11065

How did you find that!

 

[BeerParty]

I don't think there is anything that Scout could offer to get people to switch from an EREV to a BEV.

I originally signed up for the EREV. I am glad that Scout is offering the EREV because that is how I found out about the company and the new Traveler and Terra. After over a year owning a BEV I switched my reservation to the BEV since I realized that I did not need the Harvester generator. It was my experience with a BEV that convinced me that I don't need the EREV.

 

[TelemarkingSailor]

I’ve done regional disaster recovery planning, with a particular focus on the Mount Rainier region (I study volcanoes in the solar system, and it’s the volcano with the most disaster potential in all of the United States, including Hawaii. At one time in a former career, I did a little bit of volcanic disaster consulting). Tacoma and Seattle, and in particular I-5 and I-90 are in the path of lahars and pyroclastic flows. A disruption to the main arterial roadways would mean few people getting out and even fewer people—and, more importantly, few resources—getting in. That would lead almost immediately to fossil fuel shortages. The just-in-time nature of fossil fuel delivery is one of the reasons it's one of the first things to fail when big disasters hit. And because gasoline/diesel isn’t good for a very long period, it can’t be stocked up for long-term planning. An earthquake or large volcanic eruption and the resulting state of disaster would cause most fossil fuels to be unavailable to the general public within a day or so and that lack of availability could last for weeks to months.

An eruption similar to St. Helens would also make relying on internal combustion engines very sketchy since they rely on clean air to do their combustion. Many vehicles, generators, and other combustion systems failed in 1980 when the very fine silicate ash from the eruption clogged air filters, contaminated oil, destroyed belts and other moving, exposed mechanical parts. In a major disaster like a Rainier eruption, the last thing I would want to rely on is an ICE.

A BEV with solar array that’s easy to access for cleaning, and maybe an extra battery backup, is far more resilient as an energy and transportation system, especially in disasters like earthquakes and volcanic eruptions.

Right, I should have been more explicit when I mentioned the Big One... I was talking about the Juan de Fuca plate and the problems associated with an 8+ earthquake in the Puget Sound Region.

It's difficult to imagine what would happen in the case of such a large scale disaster and I think it's impossible to prepare for every contingency.

A solar array to provide electricity and recharge the battery or the vehicle would be great if the sun is shining clearly. No matter how often you clean the ash off, the sun still has to shine through the falling ash.... and if the disaster strikes between October 15th and March 15th, it's unlikely that a solar array is going to generate enough juice to supply even basic household needs, let alone transportation needs.

The question of gas supplies (and resupply) is also a complete unknown. But, if we're talking about regional electrical grid failure due to widespread earthquake/tsunami damage, I think fuel trucks reaching the city is more likely than a quick repair of the grid.

Either way, you can see that my basic assumption is that I'll be in good enough shape to consider sheltering in place for 10-14 days and then evaluating whether it's possible to remain and get resupplied through disaster relief or whether it's untenable and there's a need to evacuate. Again, assuming regional electrical grid failures, having the Harvester as a potential option to refuel and recharge rather than needing to find charging facilities on the road seems like the safer bet.

Taking a step back: A Juan de Fuca seismic event is supposed to happen every 300 years and we're just a little overdue. Ranier, active-ish yes, but unlikely to go MSH. There are also disaster scenarios that involve cyber-security attacks, wildfires, new pandemics... Like I said, it's impossible to be completely prepared for all of them, but my thinking is I'd like to have a little bit more flexibility at home and on the road than a little less.

We're planning for this Scout to be our first 2nd vehicle in over 20 years. Not too long after our purchase, we'll retire our existing PHEV and likely get a small "town" BEV. But, my thinking is that within my portfolio of vehicles for the next 15 years, I'll always want at least one that runs off gasoline.

 

[Chuckles]

I've been Harvester since day one. Unless it doesn't work as advertised or the BEV has better range than I'm anticipating, I'm sticking with the EREV. Hopefully, some of the car magazines will get real world performance numbers published before I have to choose.

 

[mbowman90]

Right, I should have been more explicit when I mentioned the Big One... I was talking about the Juan de Fuca plate and the problems associated with an 8+ earthquake in the Puget Sound Region.

It's difficult to imagine what would happen in the case of such a large scale disaster and I think it's impossible to prepare for every contingency.

A solar array to provide electricity and recharge the battery or the vehicle would be great if the sun is shining clearly. No matter how often you clean the ash off, the sun still has to shine through the falling ash.... and if the disaster strikes between October 15th and March 15th, it's unlikely that a solar array is going to generate enough juice to supply even basic household needs, let alone transportation needs.

The question of gas supplies (and resupply) is also a complete unknown. But, if we're talking about regional electrical grid failure due to widespread earthquake/tsunami damage, I think fuel trucks reaching the city is more likely than a quick repair of the grid.

Either way, you can see that my basic assumption is that I'll be in good enough shape to consider sheltering in place for 10-14 days and then evaluating whether it's possible to remain and get resupplied through disaster relief or whether it's untenable and there's a need to evacuate. Again, assuming regional electrical grid failures, having the Harvester as a potential option to refuel and recharge rather than needing to find charging facilities on the road seems like the safer bet.

Taking a step back: A Juan de Fuca seismic event is supposed to happen every 300 years and we're just a little overdue. Ranier, active-ish yes, but unlikely to go MSH. There are also disaster scenarios that involve cyber-security attacks, wildfires, new pandemics... Like I said, it's impossible to be completely prepared for all of them, but my thinking is I'd like to have a little bit more flexibility at home and on the road than a little less.

We're planning for this Scout to be our first 2nd vehicle in over 20 years. Not too long after our purchase, we'll retire our existing PHEV and likely get a small "town" BEV. But, my thinking is that within my portfolio of vehicles for the next 15 years, I'll always want at least one that runs off gasoline.

If Matt Damon can drive across Mars with a solar array, why can't we drive to Tennessee?!

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

If Matt Damon can drive across Mars with a solar array, why can't we drive to Tennessee?!

You can. You just need to plan your time accordingly.

 

[chucchinchilla]

How did you find that!

I thought I remembered seeing a Scout somewhere in/around Mt St Helens during the eruption but couldn't remember details so went searching. Also worth noting the Johnston Ridge Observatory is named after this person.

 

[Logan]

I go back and forth between EREV and BEV, but currently reserved for EREV.

Things that would sway me one way or the other:

• Huge price difference one way or the other
  • Either in total, or for specific functionality.
  • ie, if the 350 mile BEV is $20k more than the EREV, or the base model BEV is 230 miles. Both of those could sway my decision.
• BEV Charging curve
  • If its super fast ala/Lucid, or the recent Audis and Porsches, recharging in 15min, or less, then that could sway me the way of the BEV
  • If its slow/mediocre, I might lean EREV.
• Future upgrade-ability
  • ie, if the Harvester could be reasonable swapped out for more battery range in the future
  • ie, if the BEV versions whole battery pack could be designed to be replaced in ~5-10 years with a fancy new Solid State one
• Real world ranges in different configurations
  • If the range is far off of EPA/advertised estimate

All the talk of "what could you do in a catastrophic doomsday event" is interesting, but not a scenario I'm really horribly worried about preparing for specifically. Both the Scouts are already better than most vehicles out there for assisting in a situation like that. Yes the EREV would use gas in longer term outages, but it still does have the battery there, so you could also do all the EV things with it too.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Right, I should have been more explicit when I mentioned the Big One... I was talking about the Juan de Fuca plate and the problems associated with an 8+ earthquake in the Puget Sound Region.

It's difficult to imagine what would happen in the case of such a large scale disaster and I think it's impossible to prepare for every contingency.

A solar array to provide electricity and recharge the battery or the vehicle would be great if the sun is shining clearly. No matter how often you clean the ash off, the sun still has to shine through the falling ash.... and if the disaster strikes between October 15th and March 15th, it's unlikely that a solar array is going to generate enough juice to supply even basic household needs, let alone transportation needs.

The question of gas supplies (and resupply) is also a complete unknown. But, if we're talking about regional electrical grid failure due to widespread earthquake/tsunami damage, I think fuel trucks reaching the city is more likely than a quick repair of the grid.

Either way, you can see that my basic assumption is that I'll be in good enough shape to consider sheltering in place for 10-14 days and then evaluating whether it's possible to remain and get resupplied through disaster relief or whether it's untenable and there's a need to evacuate. Again, assuming regional electrical grid failures, having the Harvester as a potential option to refuel and recharge rather than needing to find charging facilities on the road seems like the safer bet.

Taking a step back: A Juan de Fuca seismic event is supposed to happen every 300 years and we're just a little overdue. Ranier, active-ish yes, but unlikely to go MSH. There are also disaster scenarios that involve cyber-security attacks, wildfires, new pandemics... Like I said, it's impossible to be completely prepared for all of them, but my thinking is I'd like to have a little bit more flexibility at home and on the road than a little less.

We're planning for this Scout to be our first 2nd vehicle in over 20 years. Not too long after our purchase, we'll retire our existing PHEV and likely get a small "town" BEV. But, my thinking is that within my portfolio of vehicles for the next 15 years, I'll always want at least one that runs off gasoline.

I don’t want to derail the thread even more. I’ll happily discuss all these points elsewhere on the forum.

Last point from me:
As someone who has done regional disaster response planning and has my own personal disaster plans for multiple possible disasters in my area, I’ll just say that I am all-BEV + solar for a lot of reasons. Independently-generated power is a resilience keystone.

 

[R1TVT]

I’ll just say that I am all-BEV + solar for a lot of reasons. Independently-generated power is a resilience keystone.

^^^ THIS^^^

Ideally, owning a BEV and a home solar array and a battery storage system or powerwall for your home would be ideal state. Add a well for water and you are basically set for life!

Now, if we could get paybck periods for such things to be reduced by 50% or so, a lot more people would consider this seriously and would make this work.

There's nothing quite like the feeling of charging your truck from power that you generated from your rooftop courtesy of the sun. I would argue that adding an American made truck like a Rivian or Scout to that arsenal is also highly patriotic - particularly when you consider what you are doing for the environment. As an outdoorsman, THIS is the way. This is also the way to personal energy independence, which might just be starting to catch on based on winter energy pricing.

If the US could figure out a way to more economically switch homeowners to solar and sell energy back to the grid, we might actually bring back some jobs and some manufacturing (mostly with robots, but you still need humans to run the facilities). This is also an important way to reduce to pollution - one household at a time.

 

[Abrust]

And to that point-I suspect an EMP would come from that so even EV’s would be pretty useless

This would solve those problems

Vehicle Protection

Our team specializes in EMP shielding for your vehicle, home and business from the effects of EMP (electromagnetic pulse), lightning, and solar flares with the world's first EMP defense technology.

www.empshield.com

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

This would solve those problems

Vehicle Protection

Our team specializes in EMP shielding for your vehicle, home and business from the effects of EMP (electromagnetic pulse), lightning, and solar flares with the world's first EMP defense technology.

www.empshield.com

If EMPs from a nuclear warhead (nuclear power plants don’t produce them) are a concern, then we’ve got much bigger concerns than whether the electronics in *any* vehicle are working.

 

[Logan]

If EMPs from a nuclear warhead (nuclear power plants don’t produce them) are a concern, then we’ve got much bigger concerns than whether the electronics in *any* vehicle are working.

I couldn't find the video for this.

But I had the same thought, and specifically, this scene from Oceans Eleven.

 

[THil08]

I go back and forth between EREV and BEV, but currently reserved for EREV.

Things that would sway me one way or the other:

• Huge price difference one way or the other
  • Either in total, or for specific functionality.
  • ie, if the 350 mile BEV is $20k more than the EREV, or the base model BEV is 230 miles. Both of those could sway my decision.
• BEV Charging curve
  • If its super fast ala/Lucid, or the recent Audis and Porsches, recharging in 15min, or less, then that could sway me the way of the BEV
  • If its slow/mediocre, I might lean EREV.
• Future upgrade-ability
  • ie, if the Harvester could be reasonable swapped out for more battery range in the future
  • ie, if the BEV versions whole battery pack could be designed to be replaced in ~5-10 years with a fancy new Solid State one
• Real world ranges in different configurations
  • If the range is far off of EPA/advertised estimate

All the talk of "what could you do in a catastrophic doomsday event" is interesting, but not a scenario I'm really horribly worried about preparing for specifically. Both the Scouts are already better than most vehicles out there for assisting in a situation like that. Yes the EREV would use gas in longer term outages, but it still does have the battery there, so you could also do all the EV things with it too.

I remember on a podcast Scott mentioning something of this nature, but it was swept under the rug. But it certainly sounded like it. Because he was talking about that in the future you can upgrade battery chemistry, get a smaller battery, lager gas tank, or smaller tank, larger battery.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I’d be super careful believing everything the CEO says. From my experiences from both the science/engineering floor and the C-suite floor, engineers hate to hear to their execs talking about what’s possible and what they might do in the future. It’s like Kirk and Scotty, but with fewer last-minute solutions and more low-morale frustrations.

 

[J Alynn]

I don't think there is anything that Scout could offer to get people to switch from an EREV to a BEV.

I originally signed up for the EREV. I am glad that Scout is offering the EREV because that is how I found out about the company and the new Traveler and Terra. After over a year owning a BEV I switched my reservation to the BEV since I realized that I did not need the Harvester generator. It was my experience with a BEV that convinced me that I don't need the EREV.

And that’s where I hope as we get closer SM starts really putting out solid BEV info and doing those cost studies. Wish drive along or live along could happen to help give people confidence but just too hard to do. It’s the grass roots effort here that I hope changes some peoples minds