V2H does not interest me all that much. It could be useful I guess in limited situations, but I have not heard of many that can push all that many amps. I guess 10amps at 240 is better than nothing, but I better shut down every significant load first - it will power the fridge and lights. Of course the refrigerator could probably be done with an extension cord.
Home Charger Reviews and FAQs
- Thread starter SpaceEVDriver
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Your thinking of V2L which uses an adapter plugged into the cars charge port and outputs power using the vehicles onboard AC inverter.
V2H capability should be able to output 50+ amps using the DC connection on the vehicle that bypasses the vehicles onboard inverter system. With V2H the EVSE (charger) will have a built in inverter that coverts the DC power from the vehicle to AC a then uses it to power a transfer system for the home.
All of this can be overwhelming. It’s taken me awhile to read up on and research. Taken over a year actually to get to grips with the nomenclature, and systems. @SpaceEVDriver can articulate this information in a post better than I can for sure.
The Lightning's non-V2H “Pro Power Onboard” 240 Volt outlet provides up to 30 Amps for a total power of 7.2 kW. On a normal day, if we’re not charging a vehicle or taking a shower, we generally stay well below 5 kW, even when the HVAC is running. And I can reprogram the water heater to draw less power if necessary.
We could also run an additional 2.4 kW from the 120 Volt, 20 Amp outlets in the Lightning, which are on a second inverter.
My current setup is that I charge my whole-home backup batteries with the Lightning at 30 Amps, 240 Volts. I know it’s overall less efficient to go from DC to AC to DC back to AC, but it’s super simple and I can run this at any time even if the grid is still up.
The Lightning's V2H can provide 40 Amps. The extra 2.4 kW just doesn’t seem worth all the extra cost and hardware to me. Especially since I can already get that 2.4 kW with a few extra extension cords.
Thanks for that clarification. I had not considered the V2L as the actual charge port. I was thinking less of the hardware involved and more of the function of providing a 240V source which you picked up on. In that case, I have no need for either V2L nor V2H.
This right here ^ is much more preferred and useful in my case.
Thank you both for the education. You guys and this forum are such a great wealth of information.
Sorry, got my numbers confused. 50 amps, which is 10ish kw. That is not all that bad, but kind of a trickle with a house that can surge 200 amps. That said, it will run the house - without the AC, stove, water heater, and clothes dryer - probably.
A 24kw generator is probably on the small size for a lot of the houses in Texas.
A 24kw generator is probably on the small size for a lot of the houses in Texas.
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One of the reasons I don’t value V2H much is that it’s only useful if the vehicle is parked and plugged in when the power goes out.
If someone is considering V2H, it’s less complex and frankly long-term cheaper to get a whole-home battery backup than it is to use the vehicle as that backup. Then, if necessary, one can recharge the home batteries with the vehicle if they're worried about a long outage of many days to a week or two.
With the batteries I have at my disposal (in the vehicles and in the home), I can run on “emergency power” for 155 to 200 hours if there’s no solar. If there’s solar, I can run indefinitely off-grid.
My home batteries run at 48 Volts and can push 200 Amps (11 kW) if necessary. And if I actually needed more than that, I could parallel them and get 400 Amps (22 kW), which is the maximum my panel can handle. Our grid transformer is 25 kVA, so even though the panel can handle 400 Amps, 240 Volts (96 kVA); the transformer is “right-sized” for residential use but would blow before the panel would.
Many people would prefer a generator and I understand why.
Personally I just don’t like the noise nor maintenance (even though I know it’s fairly minimal for many generators).
If someone is considering V2H, it’s less complex and frankly long-term cheaper to get a whole-home battery backup than it is to use the vehicle as that backup. Then, if necessary, one can recharge the home batteries with the vehicle if they're worried about a long outage of many days to a week or two.
With the batteries I have at my disposal (in the vehicles and in the home), I can run on “emergency power” for 155 to 200 hours if there’s no solar. If there’s solar, I can run indefinitely off-grid.
My home batteries run at 48 Volts and can push 200 Amps (11 kW) if necessary. And if I actually needed more than that, I could parallel them and get 400 Amps (22 kW), which is the maximum my panel can handle. Our grid transformer is 25 kVA, so even though the panel can handle 400 Amps, 240 Volts (96 kVA); the transformer is “right-sized” for residential use but would blow before the panel would.
Many people would prefer a generator and I understand why.
Personally I just don’t like the noise nor maintenance (even though I know it’s fairly minimal for many generators).
We have whole-home Solar with battery backup, (installed before the 30% for panels & batteries went away), and a nice added feature over a generator is all the perks of energy independence and in our case energy credits from our utility are used daily. The longest we have been without power has been 4 days. The system worked flawlessly, even running our homes heat pump thanks to our batteries high LRA. I wasn't even thinking about V2H. But now I am thinking to make our system even more robust adding the capability to charge the House battery with an electrical vehicle is smart.
And all you need is a generator input on your inverter or a battery charger capable of charging your batteries directly from 240V.
Some of the home battery systems on the market include inputs for integration with EVs and generators for charging the home batteries if needed.
For example, one of the batteries that our company sells, the Franklin WH battery system offers an optional generator integration module that allows you to plug in a generator or EV (vehicle must have 240V outlet) to charge the Franklin batteries if solar charging is not available (nighttime, panels covered in snow, etc.)
If you do the math, my Lightning with 131 kWh battery when charged to 100% has the stored energy equivalent of 9.7 Tesla Powerwalls. If charged to 80% like most people do for everyday driving, it has 7.76 Powerwalls worth of energy.
I have trouble coming up with a scenario in my mind where you'd need more energy storage than that for most power outages.
Exactly.
There are some scenarios where 131-200 kWh of battery backup would be helpful/needed, but unfortunately many of those scenarios involve people living in places where the power company is going to take a long time to restore power and often the economics are already so depressed that purchase of a Lightning-sized EV, a solar array with battery backup, and the generator module is outside of the realm of affordability.
We have a setup like this (DIY) because I grew up off-grid and have always been distrustful of power companies. It’s perhaps not rational but it’s me. Sigh.
This sounds great. To bad I hadn't thought that far ahead. I will need to add something to take full advantage of V2H.
Because my home batteries are 48 Volt, I bought a battery charger with 240/120 Volt (auto switching) up to 30 Amp input that can output 48 Volts and up to 60 Amps. With a L14-30 extension cord, I can plug it directly into my Lightning’s 240 volt output receptacle in the bed and charge my home batteries at up to 60 amps, 48 Volts or 2.8 kW.
This allows me to recharge the batteries while running the system without a separate generator input to the system. In a few days, I’ll be adding a plug for the generator input on my Sol-Ark inverter. This will allow me to use the Lightning to either charge the home batteries directly (at 2.8 kW) or to run the house via the inverter, whichever I feel is the best use at the time. By plugging into the inverter, I can use the truck to provide 7.2 kW.
The other thing it allows is for me to take one or two of my home batteries (up to about 40 kWh) with me in the bed of the truck for longer boondocking or to take emergency power to someone else without worrying about depleting my truck battery too much.
If the grid is out for a long time and solar isn’t producing because of weather, I might have to start reducing power use, but I don’t expect those two conditions to last for long enough to be a problem.
A day or so ago, @dreamweaver gave me a gentle nudge asking that I update my review on the Emporia Pro EVSE with Vue 3 energy monitoring.
After making a couple mistakes and allowing my Ford Charge Station Pro to charge at its full power during peak demand time of use, costing us a pretty penny, I decided to buy an Emporia Pro EVSE with Vue 3 energy monitoring and configure it to only charge the Lightning with excess solar.
Unfortunately for managing excess solar, the calibration for the unit requires that only grid power be operating when it’s set up. When I installed it, I did it during the day when solar was powering everything so I wasn’t able to properly run the calibration.
Because of this, the EVSE wasn’t able to properly charge ONLY when there was excess solar. It would charge just fine, it just wouldn’t limit its charging times to when there was excess solar. And I’m an absent-minded person, so I would often forget I was charging the truck and then remember to stop the charge in the late afternoon or evening after the truck had been charging when I didn’t want it to. This could be mitigated by managing the charging schedule in the truck, but each time we were charged for high demand was when I had foolishly changed or deleted those times from the truck for various reasons I can no longer remember.
Well, this weekend I finally ran the Emporia's calibration properly. I finally got the charger to charge only when there was excess solar.
It’s working great now.
And now that that’s working, I can give it a proper review:
It’s simple to install (like any uni-directional EVSE would be where I installed it). I chose to install on a plug, but will eventually re-install hardwired. Because it can operate from 6 Amps to 48 Amps, it can be fit into pretty much any panel that has even a very small amount of load available. I installed it on a 50 Amp breaker with a 60 Amp-capable circuit. Eventually I can run it at 48 Amps when I get around to buying a 60 Amp breaker and hardwiring it. It’s currently set at a maximum of 40 Amps.
The EVSE does require an app to configure and operate. It’s pretty straightforward, but it’s yet another app…
Operation—once the EVSE is calibrated properly—is also easy. You can use the app to slide the amperage from 6 Amps all the way up to the maximum amperage (set using an internal switch). Or you can let the system manage itself so it only provides as much amperage as your solar system is generating in excess of the rest of the system’s use. You can also easily use the app to start or stop charging or override the excess solar setting and charge whenever you need it.
I have had our ChargePoint HomeFlex for almost 4 years. I don’t yet know which one I like better, the Emporia or the ChargePoint. The ChargePoint has just worked. But it’s also not as sophisticated as the Emporia, and the ChargePoint doesn’t allow excess solar management.
Side-Note 0: The Emporia Pro does not require a solar system to operate. It’s just a great addition to a system that does have solar.
Side-Note 1: When a load is run for three hours or longer, it’s called a continuous load. The circuit size and breaker size are required—by code and for safety reasons—to be capable of accommodating 125% of that load. So a 40 Amp draw requires 1.25 * 40 Amps = 50 Amps breaker and circuit. A 48 Amp draw requires 1.25 * 48 = 60 Amps breaker and circuit. I might have mentioned this earlier in this thread, but it’s here again.
Side-Note 2: The number of breakers in your panel doesn’t determine if your panel is “full.” It’s the amount of load that you would reasonably use all at one time. If you have a 100 Amp panel and have 100 Amps worth of breakers installed, you may very well have lots of space left on the panel to install additional branch circuits. You might have to have an electrician install tandem breakers
After making a couple mistakes and allowing my Ford Charge Station Pro to charge at its full power during peak demand time of use, costing us a pretty penny, I decided to buy an Emporia Pro EVSE with Vue 3 energy monitoring and configure it to only charge the Lightning with excess solar.
Unfortunately for managing excess solar, the calibration for the unit requires that only grid power be operating when it’s set up. When I installed it, I did it during the day when solar was powering everything so I wasn’t able to properly run the calibration.
Because of this, the EVSE wasn’t able to properly charge ONLY when there was excess solar. It would charge just fine, it just wouldn’t limit its charging times to when there was excess solar. And I’m an absent-minded person, so I would often forget I was charging the truck and then remember to stop the charge in the late afternoon or evening after the truck had been charging when I didn’t want it to. This could be mitigated by managing the charging schedule in the truck, but each time we were charged for high demand was when I had foolishly changed or deleted those times from the truck for various reasons I can no longer remember.
Well, this weekend I finally ran the Emporia's calibration properly. I finally got the charger to charge only when there was excess solar.
It’s working great now.
And now that that’s working, I can give it a proper review:
It’s simple to install (like any uni-directional EVSE would be where I installed it). I chose to install on a plug, but will eventually re-install hardwired. Because it can operate from 6 Amps to 48 Amps, it can be fit into pretty much any panel that has even a very small amount of load available. I installed it on a 50 Amp breaker with a 60 Amp-capable circuit. Eventually I can run it at 48 Amps when I get around to buying a 60 Amp breaker and hardwiring it. It’s currently set at a maximum of 40 Amps.
The EVSE does require an app to configure and operate. It’s pretty straightforward, but it’s yet another app…
Operation—once the EVSE is calibrated properly—is also easy. You can use the app to slide the amperage from 6 Amps all the way up to the maximum amperage (set using an internal switch). Or you can let the system manage itself so it only provides as much amperage as your solar system is generating in excess of the rest of the system’s use. You can also easily use the app to start or stop charging or override the excess solar setting and charge whenever you need it.
I have had our ChargePoint HomeFlex for almost 4 years. I don’t yet know which one I like better, the Emporia or the ChargePoint. The ChargePoint has just worked. But it’s also not as sophisticated as the Emporia, and the ChargePoint doesn’t allow excess solar management.
Side-Note 0: The Emporia Pro does not require a solar system to operate. It’s just a great addition to a system that does have solar.
Side-Note 1: When a load is run for three hours or longer, it’s called a continuous load. The circuit size and breaker size are required—by code and for safety reasons—to be capable of accommodating 125% of that load. So a 40 Amp draw requires 1.25 * 40 Amps = 50 Amps breaker and circuit. A 48 Amp draw requires 1.25 * 48 = 60 Amps breaker and circuit. I might have mentioned this earlier in this thread, but it’s here again.
Side-Note 2: The number of breakers in your panel doesn’t determine if your panel is “full.” It’s the amount of load that you would reasonably use all at one time. If you have a 100 Amp panel and have 100 Amps worth of breakers installed, you may very well have lots of space left on the panel to install additional branch circuits. You might have to have an electrician install tandem breakers
Thank you for completing your review of the Emporia Pro EVSE with Vue 3 energy monitoring. The managing of excess Solar is just what I was looking for. The Emporia unit has been at the top of my list as I research for a home EVSE. Over the next year or so I will watch for charger manufacturers that are as capable for my charging needs/wants as Emporia. If no manufacturer steps up this will very likely be my new home EVSE.
Again. I appreciate your efforts.
60A breaker, Hardwire.
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Our vehicles will support 48 amp Level 2.
We also plan to offer V2L/H and Bi-Directional Charging Systems.
Subject to change of course, but that is the current plan.
Sounds like the system may be proprietary? Or will Scout utilize the recent communication standard created?
It’s still great to hear that the vehicles will support bidirectional charging.
Wow thanks. A lot of discussion about this. Fingers crossed it makes it to job1.
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