Higher Range

[ejwl]

I saw the expected range is 350 miles and up 500 with the range extender. I would be nice to have a higher base range like 400 or 450. The rivian r1s range is 410 and the lucid gravity range is estimated at 450. In order to keep up with the competition the amount of range should be matched or exceeded. 400 base range and 500 with the extender is a good start.

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

The thing I notice about a Rivian R1s Dual Motor is the starting price of $84,000. It better have a lot of range and options for that price. I’ll sacrifice 50ish miles of range for $20,000 (or more).

 

[dreamweaver]

I saw the expected range is 350 miles and up 500 with the range extender. I would be nice to have a higher base range like 400 or 450. The rivian r1s range is 410 and the lucid gravity range is estimated at 450. In order to keep up with the competition the amount of range should be matched or exceeded. 400 base range and 500 with the extender is a good start.

Scout. “People. Connections. Community. Authenticity." Welcome to the Scout community. Enjoy the ride.
Remember the built in search on the forums is a great place to start getting answers to your many questions.

 

[cyure]

The thing I notice about a Rivian R1s Dual Motor is the starting price of $84,000. It better have a lot of range and options for that price. I’ll sacrifice 50ish miles of range for $20,000 (or more).
View attachment 8754

Agreed. Scout has stated they will be $20,000 less than their competitors. I would prefer the lower price over 50 miles extra range. But maybe as time goes on they can do what Rivian did and add extra motors and bigger batteries at a higher cost but I would prefer that to come later.

 

[J Alynn]

I saw the expected range is 350 miles and up 500 with the range extender. I would be nice to have a higher base range like 400 or 450. The rivian r1s range is 410 and the lucid gravity range is estimated at 450. In order to keep up with the competition the amount of range should be matched or exceeded. 400 base range and 500 with the extender is a good start.

Yes it would be but for 3 years the ranges have been focused on what was announced so I suspect that’s what we will get or maybe slightly more is SM has been conservative and things work out and they squeeze another 20-50.

 

[J Alynn]

The thing I notice about a Rivian R1s Dual Motor is the starting price of $84,000. It better have a lot of range and options for that price. I’ll sacrifice 50ish miles of range for $20,000 (or more).
View attachment 8754

Agree 100%. For 450 miles and base price of $80K I’m out

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

We only looked at the 410 mile max pack R1T long enough to see the price and then backed away quickly. We got the Lightning for $30k less than the R1T with similar range, not counting the trade-in that Rivian low-balled. The max pack would have cost us $50k-$60k more.

We've taken our two EVs on more than 50k miles of road trips. They both have 310-320 mile ranges. They haven't been limiting.

The only time I've wished for more range is when we boondock camp far off-road for long times. I'm this cases, we bring our solar setup, which cost a lot less than a larger battery in the vehicle.

 

[Chaz26]

I always think charging speed is more important than overall range once you at least get to 300 miles of range anyways. I've watched a few videos on road trips where a vehicle with bigger range loses to a lower range vehicle that can charge much quicker.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I always think charging speed is more important than overall range once you at least get to 300 miles of range anyways. I've watched a few videos on road trips where a vehicle with bigger range loses to a lower range vehicle that can charge much quicker.

Yeah. At this point, more than 300-350 miles of range is often just to satisfy people's anxiety. There are special use cases that call for more range, but they're in the 1%, not the majority

Charge time isn't really a function of the range. It's a decision by the manufacturer. A larger battery should charge in almost exactly the same time as a smaller battery. Physics-wise, the main determinant of charge rate is chemistry and then battery size. All else being equal, a larger battery can charge at a faster rate. The standardized rate is 1C, or 0% to 100% in one hour. Nobody does it that way, but that's then an engineering, marketing, and warranty decision.

 

[BeerParty]

The thing I notice about a Rivian R1s Dual Motor is the starting price of $84,000. It better have a lot of range and options for that price. I’ll sacrifice 50ish miles of range for $20,000 (or more).

I have the same opinion - I would much rather have the stated range (~350 miles for full BEV) and the announced price (starting below $60K). I don't want the price pushed up to or above $80K just to provide 50-100 miles of extra battery that I don't need.

I have a BEV with a maximum range of 300 miles. I have done long road trips with it and never had a problem with the range.

 

[dreamweaver]

I have the same opinion - I would much rather have the stated range (~350 miles for full BEV) and the announced price (starting below $60K). I don't want the price pushed up to or above $80K just to provide 50-100 miles of extra battery that I don't need.

I have a BEV with a maximum range of 300 miles. I have done long road trips with it and never had a problem with the range.

When you go to Scoutmotors.com is says "Entry model prices starting under $60,000." For now that means BEV with 350 miles of range. Of course we have no idea what an "Entry model" is. Just have to wait and see.

 

[OleScout]

 

[Mousehunter]

Range is important to me. I can hope that the base model will get an honest 350 mile range. Weather or not I would pay more for an extended range version - well that depends on how much more range and how much more cost. I would not like to pay an extra 10k, but for 100 miles more range I would have to consider it.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Range is important to me. I can hope that the base model will get an honest 350 mile range. Weather or not I would pay more for an extended range version - well that depends on how much more range and how much more cost. I would not like to pay an extra 10k, but for 100 miles more range I would have to consider it.

I think the difference is many of the suggestions we see are “give it more range or it will fail”
There’s rarely a suggestion of, “offer a longer-range option.”

There’s minimal development cost to offer a couple of extra battery options. Having a 350 range standard option, a lower cost option for those who want to spend $5k less on a 270 range battery, and a higher-cost option for those who want to spend $10k on a 400 mile option is very different from the message that usually comes across.

 

[J Alynn]

When you go to Scoutmotors.com is says "Entry model prices starting under $60,000." For now that means BEV with 350 miles of range. Of course we have no idea what an "Entry model" is. Just have to wait and see.

We are all assuming entry level means 350. 350 may be a step up-grade and base may be 290-300. SM has yet to tell us anything on tiered battery power

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

And we are fairly certain the Harvester will have a different battery, which means there ought to be two battery options for the BEV as well. There’s no compelling reason not to offer the battery that comes in the Harvester as an option in the BEV. The question is whether they can fit a bigger battery option into the BEV. I suspect 350 will be the top-end range option for the first 2 years of production. In the meantime they’ll be doing their darndest to integrate a higher-capacity battery.

 

[dreamweaver]

And we are fairly certain the Harvester will have a different battery, which means there ought to be two battery options for the BEV as well. There’s no compelling reason not to offer the battery that comes in the Harvester as an option in the BEV. The question is whether they can fit a bigger battery option into the BEV. I suspect 350 will be the top-end range option for the first 2 years of production. In the meantime they’ll be doing their darndest to integrate a higher-capacity battery.

I think, for me that 350 is just right. Real world maybe 320 is still good.

 

[Logan]

I think 300-350 is about the minimum that I'd want in a vehicle. Especially considering the normal "buffer" you want to keep, and the effects of weather/speed.

Here is a copy paste of a post of mine in another thread. I did a ~840 mile road trip (~1700 mile round trip, each leg of 840 miles completed in a single day) this summer (like every other summer). I was curious and I kept track of our distance between stops, and their length (as I'm considering a full EV). Maybe this will be interesting for others.


-----------Copy/Pasta----------


I just did a ~840 mile road trip on Sunday, and have been curious about this, so I was actually counting, and timing our stops.

Keep in mind this is a single day, one way trip (ie, just the return leg of a road trip to visit family). Also, keep in mind the below is all averaging about 75-80mph (we drove WA to UT, and this leg was from UT to WA. Most of Idaho and northern UT are 80mph speed limits, with people going way faster than tha)t.

Also, our vehicle has a tiny fuel tank (11gal, because its a PHEV), and I have a mountain bike on the back on a rack. All these things together (high speeds, tiny tank, bad aero because of bike). And not once was the range the main limiting factor. Although it was very close on the first stop.

Stop 1: 258 miles, over3 hours of drive time, and a ~15-20 min stop (I forgot to time this one exactly). There were lines at the fuel pumps (every pump was full, and there were at least 5-6 vehicles towing, with the line out almost to the street).

This had the highest avg speed of the trip.

This was the closest to an actual fuel range limit. We had under 1/8 tank left, the fuel light was on, and it showed an estimated 9 miles of range remaining when we pulled up to the pump. But the kids had been clamoring for a bathroom break for 20 miles before then, and I was pushing the range a bit, wanting to get to a better place to stop. Ended up putting 9.998 gal into the 11 gal tank.

Also, FWIW, I still had ~90% battery charge here, so if we were really in a bad spot, I could have turned off the gas engine, and had ~20-30 miles more range to get us to another pump if something went wrong getting fuel somehow. So while I was pushing it, I wasn't totally crazy .

Stop 2: 207 miles. 11 minute stop, timed with a stopwatch.

limited by kids bladders. Still had like 1/4 tank or so.

Stop 3: 221 miles, 9 minute stop, also actually timed from moment we drove in, to moment we were pulling out of the gas station.

Same as above, about the kid bladder limit.

Keep in mind we're averaging ~80mph or so on these. And even at those speeds, thats 2hrs 45min of driving, which isn't bad.

That... was it. The last leg home fit under the kids bladder timer limit, and we made it home with like half a tank of gas. ~830 miles with 3 stops, and ~35min of stoppage time.

We didn't stop for anything but what you see above. We have all our food in the car (wayyy easier with kids, who are often hungry RIGHT NOW, and have a hard time waiting for a fast food place, we just get a bunch of good food/snacks in a cooler, and we graze as we go, because eliminating food stops chops a bunch of time off the trip (its easy to spend ~30min or more at a fast food place).

I didn't think to get the data on the way there, at least not the specific mileage/times. But I do know that we stopped 5 times on the way there, and at least one of the stops had a HUGE line at the bathroom (when we were only an hour from home... of course), and we were likely there at least 20-30minutes. I'd say that leg of the trip we had a combined total of at least ~1hr - 1hr 15min of stoppage time, and we were limited entirely by bladders, rather than fuel.

Sorry, huge rambling post.

TLDR: I think for non-towing use cases, ~350 miles of range is totally fine for families with kids, even at high speeds

For towing, the range changes considerably. Also, 350 miles of range could not be enough for those with super bladders, diapers (children or adult), or really low average speeds (350 miles on a ~50mph highway is about an hr more drive time than at ~85mph)

 

[cyure]

I think 300-350 is about the minimum that I'd want in a vehicle. Especially considering the normal "buffer" you want to keep, and the effects of weather/speed.

Here is a copy paste of a post of mine in another thread. I did a ~840 mile road trip (~1700 mile round trip, each leg of 840 miles completed in a single day) this summer (like every other summer). I was curious and I kept track of our distance between stops, and their length (as I'm considering a full EV). Maybe this will be interesting for others.


-----------Copy/Pasta----------


I just did a ~840 mile road trip on Sunday, and have been curious about this, so I was actually counting, and timing our stops.

Keep in mind this is a single day, one way trip (ie, just the return leg of a road trip to visit family). Also, keep in mind the below is all averaging about 75-80mph (we drove WA to UT, and this leg was from UT to WA. Most of Idaho and northern UT are 80mph speed limits, with people going way faster than tha)t.

Also, our vehicle has a tiny fuel tank (11gal, because its a PHEV), and I have a mountain bike on the back on a rack. All these things together (high speeds, tiny tank, bad aero because of bike). And not once was the range the main limiting factor. Although it was very close on the first stop.

Stop 1: 258 miles, over3 hours of drive time, and a ~15-20 min stop (I forgot to time this one exactly). There were lines at the fuel pumps (every pump was full, and there were at least 5-6 vehicles towing, with the line out almost to the street).

This had the highest avg speed of the trip.

This was the closest to an actual fuel range limit. We had under 1/8 tank left, the fuel light was on, and it showed an estimated 9 miles of range remaining when we pulled up to the pump. But the kids had been clamoring for a bathroom break for 20 miles before then, and I was pushing the range a bit, wanting to get to a better place to stop. Ended up putting 9.998 gal into the 11 gal tank.

Also, FWIW, I still had ~90% battery charge here, so if we were really in a bad spot, I could have turned off the gas engine, and had ~20-30 miles more range to get us to another pump if something went wrong getting fuel somehow. So while I was pushing it, I wasn't totally crazy .

Stop 2: 207 miles. 11 minute stop, timed with a stopwatch.

limited by kids bladders. Still had like 1/4 tank or so.

Stop 3: 221 miles, 9 minute stop, also actually timed from moment we drove in, to moment we were pulling out of the gas station.

Same as above, about the kid bladder limit.

Keep in mind we're averaging ~80mph or so on these. And even at those speeds, thats 2hrs 45min of driving, which isn't bad.

That... was it. The last leg home fit under the kids bladder timer limit, and we made it home with like half a tank of gas. ~830 miles with 3 stops, and ~35min of stoppage time.

We didn't stop for anything but what you see above. We have all our food in the car (wayyy easier with kids, who are often hungry RIGHT NOW, and have a hard time waiting for a fast food place, we just get a bunch of good food/snacks in a cooler, and we graze as we go, because eliminating food stops chops a bunch of time off the trip (its easy to spend ~30min or more at a fast food place).

I didn't think to get the data on the way there, at least not the specific mileage/times. But I do know that we stopped 5 times on the way there, and at least one of the stops had a HUGE line at the bathroom (when we were only an hour from home... of course), and we were likely there at least 20-30minutes. I'd say that leg of the trip we had a combined total of at least ~1hr - 1hr 15min of stoppage time, and we were limited entirely by bladders, rather than fuel.

Sorry, huge rambling post.

TLDR: I think for non-towing use cases, ~350 miles of range is totally fine for families with kids, even at high speeds

For towing, the range changes considerably. Also, 350 miles of range could not be enough for those with super bladders, diapers (children or adult), or really low average speeds (350 miles on a ~50mph highway is about an hr more drive time than at ~85mph)

Thanks for this. It helps to see comparisons.

 

[dreamweaver]

I think 300-350 is about the minimum that I'd want in a vehicle. Especially considering the normal "buffer" you want to keep, and the effects of weather/speed.

Here is a copy paste of a post of mine in another thread. I did a ~840 mile road trip (~1700 mile round trip, each leg of 840 miles completed in a single day) this summer (like every other summer). I was curious and I kept track of our distance between stops, and their length (as I'm considering a full EV). Maybe this will be interesting for others.


-----------Copy/Pasta----------


I just did a ~840 mile road trip on Sunday, and have been curious about this, so I was actually counting, and timing our stops.

Keep in mind this is a single day, one way trip (ie, just the return leg of a road trip to visit family). Also, keep in mind the below is all averaging about 75-80mph (we drove WA to UT, and this leg was from UT to WA. Most of Idaho and northern UT are 80mph speed limits, with people going way faster than tha)t.

Also, our vehicle has a tiny fuel tank (11gal, because its a PHEV), and I have a mountain bike on the back on a rack. All these things together (high speeds, tiny tank, bad aero because of bike). And not once was the range the main limiting factor. Although it was very close on the first stop.

Stop 1: 258 miles, over3 hours of drive time, and a ~15-20 min stop (I forgot to time this one exactly). There were lines at the fuel pumps (every pump was full, and there were at least 5-6 vehicles towing, with the line out almost to the street).

This had the highest avg speed of the trip.

This was the closest to an actual fuel range limit. We had under 1/8 tank left, the fuel light was on, and it showed an estimated 9 miles of range remaining when we pulled up to the pump. But the kids had been clamoring for a bathroom break for 20 miles before then, and I was pushing the range a bit, wanting to get to a better place to stop. Ended up putting 9.998 gal into the 11 gal tank.

Also, FWIW, I still had ~90% battery charge here, so if we were really in a bad spot, I could have turned off the gas engine, and had ~20-30 miles more range to get us to another pump if something went wrong getting fuel somehow. So while I was pushing it, I wasn't totally crazy .

Stop 2: 207 miles. 11 minute stop, timed with a stopwatch.

limited by kids bladders. Still had like 1/4 tank or so.

Stop 3: 221 miles, 9 minute stop, also actually timed from moment we drove in, to moment we were pulling out of the gas station.

Same as above, about the kid bladder limit.

Keep in mind we're averaging ~80mph or so on these. And even at those speeds, thats 2hrs 45min of driving, which isn't bad.

That... was it. The last leg home fit under the kids bladder timer limit, and we made it home with like half a tank of gas. ~830 miles with 3 stops, and ~35min of stoppage time.

We didn't stop for anything but what you see above. We have all our food in the car (wayyy easier with kids, who are often hungry RIGHT NOW, and have a hard time waiting for a fast food place, we just get a bunch of good food/snacks in a cooler, and we graze as we go, because eliminating food stops chops a bunch of time off the trip (its easy to spend ~30min or more at a fast food place).

I didn't think to get the data on the way there, at least not the specific mileage/times. But I do know that we stopped 5 times on the way there, and at least one of the stops had a HUGE line at the bathroom (when we were only an hour from home... of course), and we were likely there at least 20-30minutes. I'd say that leg of the trip we had a combined total of at least ~1hr - 1hr 15min of stoppage time, and we were limited entirely by bladders, rather than fuel.

Sorry, huge rambling post.

TLDR: I think for non-towing use cases, ~350 miles of range is totally fine for families with kids, even at high speeds

For towing, the range changes considerably. Also, 350 miles of range could not be enough for those with super bladders, diapers (children or adult), or really low average speeds (350 miles on a ~50mph highway is about an hr more drive time than at ~85mph)

I think you just described all of my childhood vacations. Fond memories of the 63 mercury station wagon.