I also like the idea of a diesel generator and know that it can't happen due to Diesel gate. I loved my VW Diesel due to the service interval, torque, lower RPM, and at 150,000 miles, the engine was just hitting its prime. Several other manufacturers were also hit with penalties of cheating emissions. If only they had gone the DEF route instead of software cheats. I was curious about the Mazda MX-30 R-EV Wankel generator which is no longer available in the US, but still available in other parts of the world. Maybe that will change as the push to fully electrify slows down.
Harvester generator gas and not diesel
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Show me your source lol. Evs still produce co2 because you need power from the grid to charge them. The grid produces co2.
I believe that 1.5 years of clean after production is not correct. I read an article from a reputable source showing how many years it takes to become clean for EV. This counts everything to produce from all new raw materials.
Well my sources from work and other sources say 1.5 years.
Reuters ask this very question about 10 months back. There conclusion was, everything considered it takes a typical EV about a year of operation to become "carbon parity" with a gas powered vehicle. However, if the EV draws power from a coal-fired grid this may take up to five years or more. Now if your source of power is from carbon-free hydroelectricity or Solar this period is as short as 6 months.
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In fact, the entire use of energy across the globe is less than 40% efficient for all activities. I apologize for the age of this graph, I was not able to easily find a more recent analysis. http://www.swans.com/library/dossiers/energy01.html. EIA has more recent charts to show efficiency gains could be made.
If you look at the actual efficiency of the gas engine, a gallon of gasoline is 33.7kw per gallon. A gas Scout might get 20mpg? That would be 1.68kw (gasoline energy) to travel one mile. A ford F-150 lightning has an energy efficiency of 0.5kw per mile. The difference is due to the heat loss through the radiator and the thousands of moving parts in the engine. It's important to rung an ICE as hot as possible so the pressure differential is as great as possible, without damaging metal moving parts. Higher compression ratios also work better, the reason diesel is more efficiently. But, all of the heat coming off of the radiator is energy that is doing nothing to push the vehicle forward.
Using electricity from much of the US grid isn't particularly efficient nor clean. Where grid scale or rooftop solar makes sense, the efficiency of power can be much greater, up to about 90% efficient in the total life-cycle. The energy required to manufacture a solar panel is about 5% of the total output of the panel over its lifetime (about 20 years). The remaining 95% is net energy. The power comes off of the roof, is inverted to 240VAC to charge the battery... 5% is lost in the DC-AC conversion process. Grid tied solar is not a 100% solution. I still draw power from the utility grid nights and winter. I'm not looking for perfect, just a good start.
It doesn't make economic sense (today) to consider solar if your utility power costs are low. In CA, we are paying outlandish rates for power... averaging $.30 kw and even $.60 (residential). Many $$ are going to upgrade our grid that has been neglected for many decades and buying green power. Even if I wasn't saving 50% on my electricity bill every month and not spending cash on gasoline, I would choose an EV for its superior performance, minimal maintenance service schedule and cost to operate. I personally believe the the gasoline generator is a good in-between alternative due to a lack of range, charging stations, weight of large batteries.
I am always shocked at how inefficient our overall use of energy is. Check out, Well-to-wheel analysis, choose your own source. Taking all inputs required to operate a gasoline vehicle make them 11%-27% efficient. The range include the varying difficulty in extracting and processing the crude oil.
In fact, the entire use of energy across the globe is less than 40% efficient for all activities. I apologize for the age of this graph, I was not able to easily find a more recent analysis. http://www.swans.com/library/dossiers/energy01.html. EIA has more recent charts to show efficiency gains could be made.
If you look at the actual efficiency of the gas engine, a gallon of gasoline is 33.7kw per gallon. A gas Scout might get 20mpg? That would be 1.68kw (gasoline energy) to travel one mile. A ford F-150 lightning has an energy efficiency of 0.5kw per mile. The difference is due to the heat loss through the radiator and the thousands of moving parts in the engine. It's important to rung an ICE as hot as possible so the pressure differential is as great as possible, without damaging metal moving parts. Higher compression ratios also work better, the reason diesel is more efficiently. But, all of the heat coming off of the radiator is energy that is doing nothing to push the vehicle forward.
Using electricity from much of the US grid isn't particularly efficient nor clean. Where grid scale or rooftop solar makes sense, the efficiency of power can be much greater, up to about 90% efficient in the total life-cycle. The energy required to manufacture a solar panel is about 5% of the total output of the panel over its lifetime (about 20 years). The remaining 95% is net energy. The power comes off of the roof, is inverted to 240VAC to charge the battery... 5% is lost in the DC-AC conversion process. Grid tied solar is not a 100% solution. I still draw power from the utility grid nights and winter. I'm not looking for perfect, just a good start.
It doesn't make economic sense (today) to consider solar if your utility power costs are low. In CA, we are paying outlandish rates for power... averaging $.30 kw and even $.60 (residential). Many $$ are going to upgrade our grid that has been neglected for many decades and buying green power. Even if I wasn't saving 50% on my electricity bill every month and not spending cash on gasoline, I would choose an EV for its superior performance, minimal maintenance service schedule and cost to operate. I personally believe the the gasoline generator is a good in-between alternative due to a lack of range, charging stations, weight of large batteries.
I am not protesting you other than to say EV sales are increasing year after year which means ICE (gas or diesel) are slowly declining. I’m not claiming health benefits anywhere in my statement. I was clearly noting I will not buy a diesel because of headaches. When behind a diesel vehicle I will either pull off or more typically floor it to pass them so I don’t end up feeling like crap.
Feel free to argue for diesel all you want but considering it’s been stated SM isn’t going that way it’s just a word filler topic. Have at it!
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One of the truest statements in the world. I do to, since i don’t want to smell that stench that comes out of them.
Are you going by how many were built or how many consumers bought? Ev saled increased because of government incentives to buy them. At GM they have to sell so many evs before they can even build a diesel hd truck, which that and yukons are their best selling product. That goes fpr any of the big companies. It’s not because of increased demand, it’s the government trying to force demand. Idk about you but the government forcing me to doing something while using my tax dollars to push it pisses me off. You have no idea how much tax dollars the state of maine pissed away, giving money to evs, solar, and installing heat pumps as a primary heat source. This new administration is stopping the ev incentives so we’ll see how many people buy evs. Maybe you’re right, we’ll see ??
You could never run this country off of solar and wind. It’s solely supplemental. Just like a heat pump in the northeast supplemental heat. The entire coast and country would be completely covered. I’m sure nature would love that! Plus solar fields have been shown to increase the temperature around them, I thought we were trying to reverse that
. Not only that but where are we putting these massive storage facilities to store all this power? Also what do we do if the technology improves? Rip it all out lol? No one realizes just how much we would need to scale up our energy grid with all evs and heat pumps. And that’s just on the residential side. Not even including the commercial and industrial. The power companies love it though ?I believe the gas generator would be a little better. They say 150miles battery with the gas providing another 350mile for 500miles total. 350miles divided by 15gallon fuel tank would be 23mpg. In a large vehicle that’s not bad honestly and that’s in any load situation which makes it even better since you’re only filling the battery pack.
The ford lightning is a terrible example because it has the most in-efficient electric motors tied in last place with the gm hummer ev. I believe hyundai and tesla have some of the most efficient.
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Are we talking with or without emissions equipment? I think with emissions equipment is worse cause it just smells like ammonia from the def fluid
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Are we talking with or without emissions equipment? I think with emissions equipment is worse cause it just smells like ammonia from the def
your heading into politics so it’s obvious your agenda is set. Good luck on the forumAre you going by how many were built or how many consumers bought? Ev saled increased because of government incentives to buy them. At GM they have to sell so many evs before they can even build a diesel hd truck, which that and yukons are their best selling product. That goes fpr any of the big companies. It’s not because of increased demand, it’s the government trying to force demand. Idk about you but the government forcing me to doing something while using my tax dollars to push it pisses me off. You have no idea how much tax dollars the state of maine pissed away, giving money to evs, solar, and installing heat pumps as a primary heat source. This new administration is stopping the ev incentives so we’ll see how many people buy evs. Maybe you’re right, we’ll see ??
@J Alynn
Is it not true lol? I think it’s important to bring up the fact the government had it’s part in ev sales in the US with incentives. Tell me would you have paid full price for an ev? It doesn’t matter who you side with those are the facts. I do HVAC so you have no idea how many heat pumps I installed because of the efficiency of maine rebates customers got, really 75% we installed were because of it. With or without it I would’ve gotten business regardless. I also take care of a bunch of section 8 properties, so you could also say it’s in my best interest to have the government keep funding those properties. Whether or not you’re okay with your tax dollars being spent a certain way is your opinion, it’s not my place to tell you how to think, but I can have my own opinion on how my tax money is being spent. No need to get all defensive, I’m not judging you on politics.
Is it not true lol? I think it’s important to bring up the fact the government had it’s part in ev sales in the US with incentives. Tell me would you have paid full price for an ev? It doesn’t matter who you side with those are the facts. I do HVAC so you have no idea how many heat pumps I installed because of the efficiency of maine rebates customers got, really 75% we installed were because of it. With or without it I would’ve gotten business regardless. I also take care of a bunch of section 8 properties, so you could also say it’s in my best interest to have the government keep funding those properties. Whether or not you’re okay with your tax dollars being spent a certain way is your opinion, it’s not my place to tell you how to think, but I can have my own opinion on how my tax money is being spent. No need to get all defensive, I’m not judging you on politics.
No your not but you’ve been here less than a week with what comes off as strong agendas. Every auto manufacturer at some point has been propped up by the government at some point. That said, if you spend some time here and go wayyyy back you’ll see the active members don’t want these politically based /agenda style debates. I suspect that’s why very few members are involved in this thread at this point as only a few people have chimed in. That said my choice is to ignore you moving forward as I suspect many other members are doing as well. It’s been stated no diesel and if you find joy in pissing in the wind in an empty field have at it. Perhaps others will follow my lead and just bail out of this conversation. It’s basically dead anyway. I’m out
I started this thread because I didn’t search “diesel” in the search tab. Completely my fault. You can’t delete threads however. That being said everyone who replied drove the conversation in this direction I’m just replying lol. Anyways, bye.
A few years ago when I looked into it the estimate was 3 years. However. With a higher production rate of EVs today vs then it makes sense that it would be shorter now due to the economy of scale. I think a lot of people still have that older number in mind.
I’m one of those weirdos who likes the smell of two stroke, so emissions less diesels don’t bother me. I will say that a gas vehicle without a cat or high flow cats I cannot stand.
I think the earlier estimates included new lithium production. I know tesla recycles their batteries. So that’s could be why it’s better now
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