actual ranges before orders?

[Mousehunter]

I know we are still a long way off from turning reservations into orders - but I had a fleeting though. How solid is the estimated range going to be when that day comes. Virtually every company tends to overstate the estimated range (or publishes the ranges in unicorn conditions). I am assuming that the estimated ranges will be hammered down as accurately as Scout wants before we have to commit - but I also have my doubts that much independent range testing will be available for the us early adopters.

Thoughts? Kind of wonder how many test vehicles will be on the road before orders need to be committed and how many of those are tested by independent agents. I just worry about it because of the Buzz (which I was eagerly wanting). Early guesses were a 350 mile range - then they published closer to 250 - with actual users (in adverse conditions) feeling it was closer to 150.
---
Just watched a re-review of the Buzz by an early adopter. He loved his Buzz, but took a bath on it (selling after 6 months) due to the tiny battery and terrible range.

 

[6-ScoutFamily]

It’s not a VW. But I understand your consternation. It’s like the sloth racing team… “we’ll get there when we get there”. (On specs. I mean).

 

[cyure]

It’s not a VW. But I understand your consternation. It’s like the sloth racing team… “we’ll get there when we get there”. (On specs. I mean).

Just my opinion, but I think it’s going to go slow with the release of details and then all of a sudden it’s going to go fast and we will get all kinds of specs all at once.

Oh and tomorrow it’s been a year since reveal, this last year has sped by.

 

[Chaz26]

It depends if the 350 they are hoping for is real world or EPA. If it’s EPA then like most manufacturers real world may be a little less. The other thing is the 350 is likely to be on a specific wheel and tire combination (the most efficient), so if you get 35” tires with all terrain tires the range is likely to be less. If I spec a Rivian R1S dual motor on their site, I can get a range of 329 miles but switch to all terrain tires and that drops to 289 miles.

 

[J Alynn]

Hard to know what the finals will be but at the reveal (and that was over 350 days ago-(coincidence-I don’t think so) I did hear a SM rep say their numbers were conservative but nothing was expanded on. My guess is range numbers are EPA based as they had nothing final to test outright when it was published. And maybe they’ll figure out how to pack a few more cells and up the BEV range

 

[Logan]

I think under adverse conditions, with larger tires, you're going to be under 350 miles. Possibly by a lot.

And agreed in the ID Buzz.

But remember, the ID Buzz started with like ~230 miles of EPA range. And even if the BEV Scout lost as much range in adverse conditions in terms of percentage, you'd still be left with ~230 miles

(going from the ~230 miles of EPA range for the Buzz, and the ~150 miles of range users are reporting in bad weather, shows they're getting ~65% of their rated range. And 350 miles of estimated EPA range for a Scout x 0.65 == ~228 miles).

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

They are engineering for 350 miles EPA range. Will they meet that engineering goal? I think so. In the Lightning, I can get 350 miles range in real-world driving, including freeway at 72 mph without too much trouble. In city traffic, I can get much better than the EPA range.

 

[THil08]

Hard to know what the finals will be but at the reveal (and that was over 350 days ago-(coincidence-I don’t think so) I did hear a SM rep say their numbers were conservative but nothing was expanded on. My guess is range numbers are EPA based as they had nothing final to test outright when it was published. And maybe they’ll figure out how to pack a few more cells and up the BEV range

I think so far all the numbers are pretty conservative including start of production. On thing that’s probably not is Reservation.

 

[6-ScoutFamily]

They are engineering for 350 miles EPA range. Will they meet that engineering goal? I think so. In the Lightning, I can get 350 miles range in real-world driving, including freeway at 72 mph without too much trouble. In city traffic, I can get much better than the EPA range.

Since you are the guru here, we will take your word as gospel…

 

[Logan]

I think suburban/city range for EV's will generally match, or exceed EPA range estimates.

My Ioniq 9 is rated for 320 miles of EPA range (dual motor AWD). The most estimated range I've seen out of it so far, is ~408 miles in a charge. In ideal conditions (70f or so).

Given, I haven't actually driven it to confirm it. But my avg in the ~1400 miles we've owned it so far, is ~3.3 miles per KWh, which still gives us ~350 miles on a full charge (107KWh useable, out of 110KWh gross pack size).

We don't get rough winters here, but I'll still be updating people with my experience as we get into the worse weather time of year. I have seen range go down, for sure. But not sure how much of a hit.

We are doing a ~200 mile round trip trip in 2 weeks, and I might have more info then, especially on highway range.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Since you are the guru here, we will take your word as gospel…

Oh, goodness, no.
The range target isn't a difficult thing to meet. The range target combined with the price target is where they are going to have to get creative.

 

[Mousehunter]

I guess the point of my question is what are the chances of independent testing before orders. I guess that really depends first on when reservations are going to need to be converted to orders, how many test vehicles they get on the road early, who drives them - and what type of NDA is applied.

I am virtually counting days. Would not mind leasing a test vehicle to cut the days down (not likely to happen, as I have no special skills, no following online, and too far from the factory) - but when it comes to purchasing, I hope the early buyers are not the actual test group (dealing with months of little problems fixes to trickle down to them). More likely than not - employees will probably be the ones blessed with testing the production vehicles (but then those pesky NDA's will keep us from knowing the results).

 

[cyure]

I guess the point of my question is what are the chances of independent testing before orders. I guess that really depends first on when reservations are going to need to be converted to orders, how many test vehicles they get on the road early, who drives them - and what type of NDA is applied.

I am virtually counting days. Would not mind leasing a test vehicle to cut the days down (not likely to happen, as I have no special skills, no following online, and too far from the factory) - but when it comes to purchasing, I hope the early buyers are not the actual test group (dealing with months of little problems fixes to trickle down to them). More likely than not - employees will probably be the ones blessed with testing the production vehicles (but then those pesky NDA's will keep us from knowing the results).

You could always tell who the Rivian engineers were in town before they were released to the public. They were the houses with the “different looking” trucks in the driveway.

 

[J Alynn]

I guess the point of my question is what are the chances of independent testing before orders. I guess that really depends first on when reservations are going to need to be converted to orders, how many test vehicles they get on the road early, who drives them - and what type of NDA is applied.

I am virtually counting days. Would not mind leasing a test vehicle to cut the days down (not likely to happen, as I have no special skills, no following online, and too far from the factory) - but when it comes to purchasing, I hope the early buyers are not the actual test group (dealing with months of little problems fixes to trickle down to them). More likely than not - employees will probably be the ones blessed with testing the production vehicles (but then those pesky NDA's will keep us from knowing the results).

That’s basically the process of new car testing for those day to day commutes where managers, staff etc.. all drive them daily to work through the rattles, etc. happened with Rivian and happened with the Broncos. Just part of the process. That said, if @Jamie@ScoutMotors reached out and asked me if I wanted to drive one daily for a month and report on experiences and make videos BY GOD I’d figure it out and be the best video maker Scout has ever seen

 

[R1TVT]

I guess the point of my question is what are the chances of independent testing before orders. I guess that really depends first on when reservations are going to need to be converted to orders, how many test vehicles they get on the road early, who drives them - and what type of NDA is applied.

I am virtually counting days. Would not mind leasing a test vehicle to cut the days down (not likely to happen, as I have no special skills, no following online, and too far from the factory) - but when it comes to purchasing, I hope the early buyers are not the actual test group (dealing with months of little problems fixes to trickle down to them). More likely than not - employees will probably be the ones blessed with testing the production vehicles (but then those pesky NDA's will keep us from knowing the results).

This is kind of a non-issue.

Once you are able to convert a reservation to an order, you will already have production specs in hand, what am I missing?

The production specs will include the range estimates for each variant.

 

[Cranky Canuck]

I think suburban/city range for EV's will generally match, or exceed EPA range estimates.

My Ioniq 9 is rated for 320 miles of EPA range (dual motor AWD). The most estimated range I've seen out of it so far, is ~408 miles in a charge. In ideal conditions (70f or so).

Given, I haven't actually driven it to confirm it. But my avg in the ~1400 miles we've owned it so far, is ~3.3 miles per KWh, which still gives us ~350 miles on a full charge (107KWh useable, out of 110KWh gross pack size).

We don't get rough winters here, but I'll still be updating people with my experience as we get into the worse weather time of year. I have seen range go down, for sure. But not sure how much of a hit.

We are doing a ~200 mile round trip trip in 2 weeks, and I might have more info then, especially on highway range.

As a fellow E-GMP vehicle owner who does lots of road trips, to get the best range and efficiency on a road trip I'd suggest using the adaptive-cruise (HDA) and putting the vehicle in eco-mode. If you don't want to use cruise control then set the regen level to 0 and eco mode.

 

[bakdraft8231]

whatever happened to underpromise and overdeliver????

 

[cyure]

whatever happened to underpromise and overdeliver????

They can still do that. We don’t know anything yet.

 

[bakdraft8231]

They can still do that. We don’t know anything yet.

anything?????

 

[6-ScoutFamily]

whatever happened to underpromise and overdeliver????

Give them time, they haven’t delivered anything yet.