One Giant Leap Into the World of EV Ownership

[Logan]

We wanted to run that exact path (plus some driving south on the 15 from SLC) last year, but other obligations got in the way of that trip. We’re hoping to make a trip up along part of that path and then into the Rockies and into Canada later this year.

I'm sure a road tripping pro like you will have no issues.

My one takeaway from that route, is I would try to avoid the Electrify America chargers in Huntington Oregon next time. Really expensive ($0.64/kwh iirc), only 3 out of 4 were working, and not my favorite stop in general. So we skipped it on the way home.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Hi, what is the source for this map? My google-fu is failing me and I'd like to check it out more closely
Thanks

Oh, I forgot to respond to the second-half.
I don’t currently have a server providing this map for others to investigate, but if there was enough demand, it might be something I can put together. I haven’t done a lot of GIS web services work, so it might be a pain, but QGIS may provide some tools to make it easier to publish. I’m not sure. I haven’t investigated it in detail.

 

[cyure]

Oh, I forgot to respond to the second-half.
I don’t currently have a server providing this map for others to investigate, but if there was enough demand, it might be something I can put together. I haven’t done a lot of GIS web services work, so it might be a pain, but QGIS may provide some tools to make it easier to publish. I’m not sure. I haven’t investigated it in detail.

You need to figure out a way to monetize all of this.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

You need to figure out a way to monetize all of this.

The problem is that as soon as I do that I stop doing the fun things because then they become jobs.

 

[cyure]

The problem is that as soon as I do that I stop doing the fun things because then they become jobs.

True.

 

[apex96]

I am the source.

I took the DCFC locations registered in the Federal Alternative Fuels Database and then wrote software to map 50-mile drives from each of those locations.

There are some faults with this map. First, it doesn’t include every DCFC, because not every DCFC is registered with the database. Second, it doesn’t exclude some of the Tesla SCs that are not available to non-Teslas; these aren’t well-identified in the database. Third, 50 miles is the longest range I could calculate (for the thousands of locations) on my server system in less than a week. Longer distances require that I take time away from contracted computing work.

Interesting thing about the Alternative Fuels data is that it considers anything over 50 kW to be DCFC... While true that's a really slow DCFC and the same goes for 150 kW stations as well. WV is mostly comprised of 50 - 250 kW stations and primarily is serviced by Tesla stations with V2 chargers so they're locked into only Tesla's... The only true fast charger in the state is located centrally in Flatwoods, WV and it's a Pilot/Flying J Evgo station with 350 kW output...

 

[Logan]

Interesting thing about the Alternative Fuels data is that it considers anything over 50 kW to be DCFC... While true that's a really slow DCFC and the same goes for 150 kW stations as well. WV is mostly comprised of 50 - 250 kW stations and primarily is serviced by Tesla stations with V2 chargers so they're locked into only Tesla's... The only true fast charger in the state is located centrally in Flatwoods, WV and it's a Pilot/Flying J Evgo station with 350 kW output...
View attachment 16560

Oh, thats interesting. I've mostly ignored Tesla Superchargers in my searches for DCFC so far.

Also, I will note that the while 50kw chargers are "technically" fast charging... for your average EV on the road today, you're talking over an hour of charging time, maybe up into the 2-3hr time range.

I charged briefly at a 50kw charger when I was on my roadtrip (at a dealership, who let me charge for free after I couldn't get the thing to work with plug and charge). And it showed an almost 2hr charge time, and I was only at like 30% at the time.

Mostly just mentioning for the non-EV owners out there reading this. 50KW chargers are functional, but not the "charge while you get lunch or go to the bathroom and get out on the road again" sort of chargers. For that experience you're going to want something more in the 150kw and up range.

I mentioned a 2hr charge time on the 50kw charger. On a 350kw charger, I can charge from 10-80% in 24min. Thats a massive difference.

 

[apex96]

Oh, thats interesting. I've mostly ignored Tesla Superchargers in my searches for DCFC so far.

Also, I will note that the while 50kw chargers are "technically" fast charging... for your average EV on the road today, you're talking over an hour of charging time, maybe up into the 2-3hr time range.

I charged briefly at a 50kw charger when I was on my roadtrip (at a dealership, who let me charge for free after I couldn't get the thing to work with plug and charge). And it showed an almost 2hr charge time, and I was only at like 30% at the time.

Mostly just mentioning for the non-EV owners out there reading this. 50KW chargers are functional, but not the "charge while you get lunch or go to the bathroom and get out on the road again" sort of chargers. For that experience you're going to want something more in the 150kw and up range.

I mentioned a 2hr charge time on the 50kw charger. On a 350kw charger, I can charge from 10-80% in 24min. Thats a massive difference.

Yep, WV has DCFC stations but most non Tesla stations have outputs of 50 kW to 150 kW with most landing between 62 kW and 120 kW at Ford and Chevy dealerships along major interstate corridors. Unless you own a Tesla, WV really is like the Midwest in some respects, regarding true fast chargers, there's not much available... The state has really slow walked the NEVI program and resisted incentivizing any real build-out of fast charging in the state. Traveling through the state is doable, just wish there were more 350 kW + stations along interstates: I-64, I-66, I-68, I-70, I-79 that cross the state.

 

[J Alynn]

Yeah, I can only dream of having the DCFC density of anywhere east of the Mississippi. When I hear that WV “isn’t great” for DCFCs, I look at my map of 50-mile driving distance, see that there is almost no place in WV with roads that is farther than 50 miles from at least three DCFCs, and I just sigh with envy.

Here’s a map of the east coast and eastern interior states DCFC (as of January 2026) and their 50-mile driving distances.
Each of the purple crenulated outlines is a 50-mile driving polygon from a DCFC.
These layers are set at 33% opacity so if there are three or more on top of each other, the layer looks solid purple (with black outlines showing through). If there are fewer than 3, the purple becomes more transparent.
View attachment 16554

Some of our driving adventures in EVs over the past 4.5 years. The density of DCFCs has increased substantially since we started driving EVs.
Many of our adventures are into places where there aren’t any DCFCs within 100 miles driving distance.
View attachment 16555


There’s a huge disparity between east and west of (approximately) the Mississippi. Of course, there’s also a huge human-density difference, so that makes sense.

View attachment 16556

Sadly I think the mindset of the population also influences that as I’m sure EVs are the strong minority in the mid and south west

 

[apex96]

With the exception of my yearly trip to NW Maine (which I'll probably never make in my own vehicle), I think my only frequent trips that would require a bit more planning for charging would be to Morgantown, WV (Via I-68), and Tennessee on I-81. And I-81 now has a Buc-ees in VA!

Morgantown was my college home for 5 years, ha. I still go through there for work a lot, Not really much in the way of fast chargers there yet, unless you're a Tesla. Only 150+ KW stations are two Tesla locations, both at Sheetz gas stations and only one is open to non-Tesla vehicles (Sabraton exit off I-68 it looks like).

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Oh, thats interesting. I've mostly ignored Tesla Superchargers in my searches for DCFC so far.

Also, I will note that the while 50kw chargers are "technically" fast charging... for your average EV on the road today, you're talking over an hour of charging time, maybe up into the 2-3hr time range.

I charged briefly at a 50kw charger when I was on my roadtrip (at a dealership, who let me charge for free after I couldn't get the thing to work with plug and charge). And it showed an almost 2hr charge time, and I was only at like 30% at the time.

Mostly just mentioning for the non-EV owners out there reading this. 50KW chargers are functional, but not the "charge while you get lunch or go to the bathroom and get out on the road again" sort of chargers. For that experience you're going to want something more in the 150kw and up range.

I mentioned a 2hr charge time on the 50kw charger. On a 350kw charger, I can charge from 10-80% in 24min. Thats a massive difference.

There are very few times, even in the Southwest charging deserts that I stop at a <125 kW DCFC with the goal of a truly quick charge. It’s usually a choice because I plan to have a sit-down dinner or otherwise spend an hour or two at that location for reasons other than charging.

But even if I need to stop because I’m low on charge and I am not interested in staying long, a 25 minute stop at a 50 kW charger will get me 21 kWh of charge. That’s 50 miles in my truck at freeway speeds. In most places, that's more than enough to get to a faster DCFC.

I think there’s a misconception that all chargers must be 250 kW or they’re useless. The problem is back to the point made earlier: We don’t have to stop to charge in the same way we used to refuel. Topping off, adding a bit here and a bit there, slow overnight “trickle” charging are all useful ways of adding range to the vehicle.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Interesting thing about the Alternative Fuels data is that it considers anything over 50 kW to be DCFC... While true that's a really slow DCFC and the same goes for 150 kW stations as well. WV is mostly comprised of 50 - 250 kW stations and primarily is serviced by Tesla stations with V2 chargers so they're locked into only Tesla's... The only true fast charger in the state is located centrally in Flatwoods, WV and it's a Pilot/Flying J Evgo station with 350 kW output...
View attachment 16560

Your query limits the chargers to 350 kW or more.
I’m not sure why one would do that? Most EVs can’t even take advantage of 350 kW chargers.

There are several 150+ kW chargers along I-77.
There are also several SCs open to non-T along I-64 and also the along PA, MD, and VA borders.

Are you saying none of those are operational?
Plugshare seems to think the ones in its database are mostly working.
I obviously don’t know WV’s on-the-ground situation, so if those chargers are offline, they database managers should be alerted. Plugshare makes it easy to send in reports. I wish I could afford access to their API to use as another check on my maps.

 

[apex96]

Your query limits the chargers to 350 kW or more.
I’m not sure why one would do that? Most EVs can’t even take advantage of 350 kW chargers.

There are several 150+ kW chargers along I-77.
There are also several SCs open to non-T along I-64 and also the along PA, MD, and VA borders.

Are you saying none of those are operational?
Plugshare seems to think the ones in its database are mostly working.
I obviously don’t know WV’s on-the-ground situation, so if those chargers are offline, they database managers should be alerted. Plugshare makes it easy to send in reports. I wish I could afford access to their API to use as another check on my maps.

I deliberately queried for 350+ kW stations for that one image. You're correct that there are 150+ kw Stations in the state and I did point that out in one of my posts. I see it through the lens of no true "fast" chargers, from a 400 volt pack perspective while long distance road tripping. Most of the DCFC stations in WV are not going to be able to provide the amperage to get full usage of their rated kW rating. As Logan mentioned and you've highlighted, you'll have to plan out longer stops around the slower chargers or top up just enough to get to another higher kW rated charger. Highlighting this just to say that the state is lacking compared to the surrounding states in making road trip charging planning an afterthought, here on the east coast.

Here's PlugShare's 120 - 350 + kW map showing only accessible chargers (excludes Rivian and Tesla only locations).

I'm not trying to say that there is no accessible DCFC stations in WV, I'm trying to highlight how poor this state is doing in adding any sort of good infrastructure. This is also likely ensuring the populace relies on gas and probably helps the political narrative that EVs won't work in the state...

Based on the alternative fuels data sets, WV is the only state in the lower 48 with only one 350 kW DCFC station in the entire state....

I know with time the build-out will happen across the US and some major auto manufacturers are playing an outsized roll in trying to blanket the interstate corridors with DCFC stations.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I deliberately queried for 350+ kW stations for that one image. You're correct that there are 150+ kw Stations in the state and I did point that out in one of my posts. I see it through the lens of no true "fast" chargers, from a 400 volt pack perspective while long distance road tripping. Most of the DCFC stations in WV are not going to be able to provide the amperage to get full usage of their rated kW rating.

I'm confused by this part. Maybe it’s a WV thing? It sounds like, from your other statements, that WV has some issues with enabling decent charging. That’s unfortunate.

My experience in the southwest and west coast is that it’s not—in general—the charger but the vehicle that is the limiting factor. Obviously sometimes the charger is the issue.

I've done hundreds of DCFC sessions with 400 V vehicles. We use ~150 kW chargers probably around 95% of the time. This is because most of the time, the 150 kW chargers don't provide any slower charge than the 350 kW chargers and we leave the 350 kW chargers for 800V vehicle drivers who can make use of the higher rate. The chargers that provide us with the slowest charge are the 250 kW SCs.

When both the vehicle and the charger are in good condition and temperatures aren't a limiting factor, the vehicle’s charge curve is the limitation, not the charger.

The peak charge rate is a metric that is used a lot, but it's ultimately meaningless. The full curve is what matters. A couple minutes at 207 kW doesn’t substantially improve the overall charge time.

Here are two real-world examples where I charged on a 150 kW charger and a 350 kW charger. Obviously different times, different locations, so I couldn’t control all of the variables. These are just two examples I quickly pulled from my database. They’re both a little lower than the average/median of my charge rates. This is for the Mustang, which has a ~92 kWh battery operating at approximately 400 Volts.

Date	Charger	Peak (spike) Charge Rate	Total Energy Added	Time	Average Rate (total energy divided by time spent charging)	Ending State of Charge
28 May 2022	Kingman, AZ EA 350 kW	207 kW	39 kWh	30 minutes	78 kW	86%
18 March 2023	Van Horn, TX EA 150 kW (they’ve since all been upgraded to 350 kW)	134 kW	41 kWh	32 minutes	77 kW	84%

I’ve charged at EA for 111 recorded charging sessions. I’ve done closer to 200 charging sessions at EA, but not all of them get sent to my account record for various reasons.

At EA, on average for the Mustang I get about 88 kW over the full charge. The median rate is 87 kW. Ford originally rated the battery at 88 kWh and later released some of its margin to ~92 kWh, but they didn’t update the charge curve to get to 92 kW. That doesn’t impact us very much.

The Lightning gets a better rate because it has a bigger battery. Its median is about 130 kW. Note that these are both very close to the 1C charge rate.

On average, I spend about 27.1 minutes at a DCFC. The median time is 27.9 minutes. That’s for around 50% added to the vehicle.

Some manufacturers allow higher than 1C charge rate averages, but Ford is very conservative with both the Mustang and the Lightning.

It really doesn’t matter if I plug into a 350 kW charger or a 150 kW charger, if everything is operating at optimum capability, the average charge rate will be around 1C for the Ford vehicles. I haven’t gathered enough data for the Silverado yet.

 

[mbowman90]

Morgantown was my college home for 5 years, ha. I still go through there for work a lot, Not really much in the way of fast chargers there yet, unless you're a Tesla. Only 150+ KW stations are two Tesla locations, both at Sheetz gas stations and only one is open to non-Tesla vehicles (Sabraton exit off I-68 it looks like).

Wow, you're right; I really expected something more, maybe at the Sam's. I'd need a charge station next to the Apple Annie's. The way it's looking, WVU will be my son's college home for 5 or more years. Right now it's a race to see which is first: graduate or the Scout gets built!

 

[Logan]

I'm confused by this part. Maybe it’s a WV thing? It sounds like, from your other statements, that WV has some issues with enabling decent charging. That’s unfortunate.

My experience in the southwest and west coast is that it’s not—in general—the charger but the vehicle that is the limiting factor. Obviously sometimes the charger is the issue.

I've done hundreds of DCFC sessions with 400 V vehicles. We use ~150 kW chargers probably around 95% of the time. This is because most of the time, the 150 kW chargers don't provide any slower charge than the 350 kW chargers and we leave the 350 kW chargers for 800V vehicle drivers who can make use of the higher rate. The chargers that provide us with the slowest charge are the 250 kW SCs.

When both the vehicle and the charger are in good condition and temperatures aren't a limiting factor, the vehicle’s charge curve is the limitation, not the charger.

The peak charge rate is a metric that is used a lot, but it's ultimately meaningless. The full curve is what matters. A couple minutes at 207 kW doesn’t substantially improve the overall charge time.

Here are two real-world examples where I charged on a 150 kW charger and a 350 kW charger. Obviously different times, different locations, so I couldn’t control all of the variables. These are just two examples I quickly pulled from my database. They’re both a little lower than the average/median of my charge rates. This is for the Mustang, which has a ~92 kWh battery operating at approximately 400 Volts.

Date	Charger	Peak (spike) Charge Rate	Total Energy Added	Time	Average Rate (total energy divided by time spent charging)	Ending State of Charge
28 May 2022	Kingman, AZ EA 350 kW	207 kW	39 kWh	30 minutes	78 kW	86%
18 March 2023	Van Horn, TX EA 150 kW (they’ve since all been upgraded to 350 kW)	134 kW	41 kWh	32 minutes	77 kW	84%

I’ve charged at EA for 111 recorded charging sessions. I’ve done closer to 200 charging sessions at EA, but not all of them get sent to my account record for various reasons.

At EA, on average for the Mustang I get about 88 kW over the full charge. The median rate is 87 kW. Ford originally rated the battery at 88 kWh and later released some of its margin to ~92 kWh, but they didn’t update the charge curve to get to 92 kW. That doesn’t impact us very much.

The Lightning gets a better rate because it has a bigger battery. Its median is about 130 kW. Note that these are both very close to the 1C charge rate.

On average, I spend about 27.1 minutes at a DCFC. The median time is 27.9 minutes. That’s for around 50% added to the vehicle.

Some manufacturers allow higher than 1C charge rate averages, but Ford is very conservative with both the Mustang and the Lightning.

It really doesn’t matter if I plug into a 350 kW charger or a 150 kW charger, if everything is operating at optimum capability, the average charge rate will be around 1C for the Ford vehicles. I haven’t gathered enough data for the Silverado yet.

This is a great point. I was thinking about this lately on my trip, but didn't want to do the math.

Well, I threw AI at it, and tossed the charging curve data for my Ioniq 9 (data), and had it do the math I was too lazy to do. Our Ioniq 9 holds over 150kw from 2%, up until about 71-72%. But it peaks at something like ~230-235kw.

According to the AI math, its showing that the difference in recharge times on a 150kw charger, vs a 350kw charger, is really only about 5 minutes. But the 50kw charger is really going to slow things down in comparison (an hour or so longer).

EDIT: Whoa, that got mangled. An image instead.

Are 150kw chargers usually cheaper? I haven't actually looked at them, and most of what I saw out in the wild was the 350kw chargers.

But if the 150kw chargers were materially cheaper, there are some times when I'd use those, as we might be staying longer for that stop anyway (like if we were wanting to eat). While other times we'd still be trying to save those 5min.

 

[oldgeeksguide]

One subtle difference between different power ratings is that while it’s represented as a power rating, it’s probably mostly a current limitation. Ie, if your battery voltage is low enough, a 150kw charger may not be able to deliver 150kw because it bumps up against a current limit, where a 350kw charger may be able to get closer to 150kw because of a higher current. All that is to say that it is possible that even if your car is limited to 150 you might charge faster at a 350 charger, in some corner cases. Not really worth worrying about for practical purposes, I expect.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

This is a great point. I was thinking about this lately on my trip, but didn't want to do the math.

Well, I threw AI at it, and tossed the charging curve data for my Ioniq 9 (data), and had it do the math I was too lazy to do. Our Ioniq 9 holds over 150kw from 2%, up until about 71-72%. But it peaks at something like ~230-235kw.

According to the AI math, its showing that the difference in recharge times on a 150kw charger, vs a 350kw charger, is really only about 5 minutes. But the 50kw charger is really going to slow things down in comparison (an hour or so longer).

EDIT: Whoa, that got mangled. An image instead.

View attachment 16568


Are 150kw chargers usually cheaper? I haven't actually looked at them, and most of what I saw out in the wild was the 350kw chargers.

But if the 150kw chargers were materially cheaper, there are some times when I'd use those, as we might be staying longer for that stop anyway (like if we were wanting to eat). While other times we'd still be trying to save those 5min.

There’s not usually a practical price difference between 150 kW and 350 kW chargers in states where they are allowed to charge for the energy transferred.

But in states where they have to charge you for the time your vehicle spends in the parking space and the energy is legally an incidental benefit, you can actually pay a little more for a 150 kW charger if the overall average power is lower. But like you note, this will be relatively small difference.

EA 350 kW and EA 150 kW chargers at the same location have never—in my experience—had a difference in price per unit (time or kWh).

 

[apex96]

One subtle difference between different power ratings is that while it’s represented as a power rating, it’s probably mostly a current limitation. Ie, if your battery voltage is low enough, a 150kw charger may not be able to deliver 150kw because it bumps up against a current limit, where a 350kw charger may be able to get closer to 150kw because of a higher current. All that is to say that it is possible that even if your car is limited to 150 you might charge faster at a 350 charger, in some corner cases. Not really worth worrying about for practical purposes, I expect.

This is what I was trying to convey, although really poorly I admit.

For 1-5 hour trips, the time loss is negligible. For 14+ hour trips it adds up. We do a western PA to southwest FL trip around once a year. I try to stretch stops out as long as possible and then stop to let the dogs out (usually at Loves travel plazas as they have nice dog runs). Average stop is around 20-25 minutes. Ideally not looking to make the trip really any longer than it already is. With the Equinox, if we were to take it, and using the higher current newest chargers capable of pushing 250 kW, I’m looking at adding another 1.5 hours onto the trip just due to the car’s limitations (based on ABRP trip planning). With something like a Silverado EV, I’m sure I could cut down the added time by about 1/2 as that’s a split pack design. Right now GM limits their 400 volt packs to 150 kW peak and it doesn’t hold it long at all. I know the Mach-e I had a chance to drive over a week did better for sure and appeared to peak around 170 kW and sustain 150 kW for a decent amount of time.

These of course are my thoughts and they are subjective to what I’ve experienced and my preference for usage.

 

[Logan]

This is what I was trying to convey, although really poorly I admit.

For 1-5 hour trips, the time loss is negligible. For 14+ hour trips it adds up. We do a western PA to southwest FL trip around once a year. I try to stretch stops out as long as possible and then stop to let the dogs out (usually at Loves travel plazas as they have nice dog runs). Average stop is around 20-25 minutes. Ideally not looking to make the trip really any longer than it already is. With the Equinox, if we were to take it, and using the higher current newest chargers capable of pushing 250 kW, I’m looking at adding another 1.5 hours onto the trip just due to the car’s limitations (based on ABRP trip planning). With something like a Silverado EV, I’m sure I could cut down the added time by about 1/2 as that’s a split pack design. Right now GM limits their 400 volt packs to 150 kW peak and it doesn’t hold it long at all. I know the Mach-e I had a chance to drive over a week did better for sure and appeared to peak around 170 kW and sustain 150 kW for a decent amount of time.

These of course are my thoughts and they are subjective to what I’ve experienced and my preference for usage.

This prompted me to check my avg stop time more empirically than I had before.

My avg charging time across the 14 sessions, was 24min 36 seconds, with an avg ending SOC of 88%.

Some of that higher percentages were probably due to "the safety blanket" feeling of having more charge to play with on our first road trip. But at least 2-3 of those were us still doing things like eating/peeing, and we'd already hit the 80% mark.

And for context, in a different thread, I posted some road trip history from the same trip. In our PHEV, using gas, our avg stop time was 13min 20 seconds, with 3 stops. Compared to the 24min 36 seconds, and 4 stops in the EV (on the way back).

I don't have exact stoppage stuff recorded for the other direction with the PHEV, but I think the EV was consistent with 1 more stop in that direction as well.

Anyway, more data for data nerds out there (even though I'm barely starting to get the data, unlike @SpaceEVDriver ).