What's the deal with software issues in many newer expensive EVs?

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Crazychicken563

Active member
Sep 29, 2025
39
102
Columbus, OH
All this recent talk about how much the Scout will cost got me thinking about all the software issues I've been seeing in expensive cars.

Polestar 2 - I own one - the software is really average and have dealt with years of issues. I could easily post a wall of text about the issues I've had, but want to keep this post focused.
Polestar 3 - Widespread L2 charging failures, Car won't unlock, plethora of software issues. Many people are seeking buy-backs / early lease ends from what I'm seeing
Lucid Air -
Fisker Karma - Notorious for poor software -> bankrupt

What is the deal with these really expensive cars having poor software?
Lucid - I kind of understand since it's a startup, but for a 100k price tag it's ridiculous seeing the problems described in that video. (BTW my Polestar 2 experiences like 95% of every issue he complained about)
Fisker - same thing, but lots of other issues with that company in general.
Polestar - Considering it's a subsidiary of Geely -> Volvo I'm shocked to see such poor software execution.

As far as Scout is concerned regarding this discussion, I'm still really excited about the software's potential. I have yet to hear that many complaints about modern Rivian software which presumably Scout is built on top of (though I believe there were early issues that were resolved, but not I'm not that in the loop). As far as I can tell from the various UX videos released, it seems like they are taking it very seriously to develop the UX in house and for it to be intuitive and pleasant to use.

However.

After seeing how badly Polestar / Volvo have dropped the ball with software, I no longer put very much weight on the sentiment that "being backed by a large company = good software". Just because Scout has the resources of VW doesn't mean that is a free pass to performant, bug free software.

What do you all think about these observations?
Are expensive cars just getting a 'free pass' on buggy software just because they are 'new'?
Has Scout announced who is developing their software? UX is not equal to the actual execution of the software stack. Is development in house? 3rd party? Overseas?
Is there any news about who is developing the Android / iOS app?
 
I would summarize it as allocation of financial resources, and a lack of alpha testing by enough employees.

Rivian has also had a few streaks where it would fix one issue and create three new ones with each update.

Rivian will be providing the underlaying software for the Scout Motors brand, and Scout is putting their own in house Community UX on top of it. VW will also be getting their hands on Rivian software for other brands in their lineup.


It looks like their app is already pretty fleshed out in that Autopia article that discusses their roadmap for service centers and remote diagnostics model. We haven't seen the customer facing UI for doing things like locking and unlocking the car or scheduling charging yet though.
 
I’m here to see everyone’s perspective on this because poor software can very quickly lead to an absolutely horrible end-user experience and vaporize any brand enthusiasm and loyalty that had been established.

100% agree. I loved the Polestar 2 back in 2021 when because I thought it was absolutely gorgeous compared to the competition. And now that i have one software is an ever present force that's nagging me to get rid of the damn thing. Incredible driving experience though
 
I think we are going to have a leg up, because by the time they are released, Rivians customer facing software will be around 7 years old. They should hopefully by then have most of their silly issues resolved.

Scout will just be putting a skin on top of it if I understand things correctly, so there will be a lot less opportunities to bungle that up by a newer company.

Though I haven't read many stories about show stoppers like being locked out of the car for hours or their cars being bricked. Some other brands have struggled with this like Jeep EVs and Lucid which would absolutely ruin your software defined EV experience.
 
Rivian has also had a few streaks where it would fix one issue and create three new ones with each update.
Is this from experience, or anecdotal? I have never had an OTA fail, or create 3 new issues all at once.

There have been updates that include bug-fixes (like you would see with any new SW release), but usually the bugs are little things that happen in "rare cases". I think everyone here will be pretty pleased with the OTA updates if Scout follows along Rivian's pathway FWIW. There are very few depreciating assets that I have owned that have gotten better with time (with no effort on my part). The Rivian partnership is a big selling point to me. I've gotten new drive modes, new interior lighting options, better suspension characteristics, more apps, added streaming / Googlecast, etc. etc. etc.

For the record, I think one of the "bugs" that I experienced personally was in one of the earlier releases for Gen 1 trucks back in 2022 when the screens went blank on me. Kind of freaky when it happened, but nothing altered the trucks behavior - you couldn't see anything on the infotainment screens. A hard re-set fixed the problem and a patch was issued very shortly afterwards. The only other bug that I can remember and have seen (and noticed) was with settings not "sticking" after asking the truck to remember them.

Beyond just the OTA's themselves, Rivian seems to have a very calculated and hardened roll-out process for releases. I see Scout benefitting a LOT from Rivian's experiences based on using Zonal architecture and their partnership, but time will tell.

EDIT: Forgot to add the biggest OTA updates are related to battery optimizations!
 
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I don’t think my car has had an update since I’ve had it, I could be wrong but every time I check for Updates in the software it says it’s up-to-date. But in the 18 months I’ve had it. I’ve only had two strange experiences. Both were within the last five months. The first thing was 8 PM. I was heading home and all of my screens and interior lights shut off for five seconds and rebooted even with the initializing screen as if the car had just started while I was traveling at 40 miles an hour, but my headlights or powertrain did not deactivate then a few days later I pulled into a downward facing parking spot at a fast food restaurant when I got back into my car, it would not shift into Gear saying improper conditions and it refused to hard reset unless the door was open and I removed the key while trying to do the reset procedure
 
A little backstory on the legacy auto industry. On a broad level, most legacy manufacturers didn't have to write all of their own software. For instance, a supplier like Bosch might provide the anti-lock braking hardware and they would write the code and provide the ECU that controls it. This small computer would then plug into the overall car network. So you had numerous companies providing code for a wide variety of things in the vehicle, with sometimes upwards of 30+ small computers/ECUs.

So when electric vehicles entered the market, and Tesla built their own software to run the entire vehicle, it was the beginning of bringing everything in-house. We all have to remember that Tesla has been perfecting its software for over 14 years now. Most legacy manufacturers have had to figure out how to bring this in-house with a lot of fits, starts, and bumps along the way. Scout will utilize Rivian's zonal architecture and software stack (with our own interface). Rivian is one of the newer companies in the market that has had a solid track record with its software, with numerous and frequent updates. Some of those updates add features, improve features, and even sometimes add range improvements.

But yes, many companies have struggled with growing pains in software development.
 
Is this from experience, or anecdotal? I have never had an OTA fail, or create 3 new issues all at once.

There have been updates that include bug-fixes (like you would see with any new SW release), but usually the bugs are little things that happen in "rare cases". I think everyone here will be pretty pleased with the OTA updates if Scout follows along Rivian's pathway FWIW. There are very few depreciating assets that I have owned that have gotten better with time (with no effort on my part). The Rivian partnership is a big selling point to me. I've gotten new drive modes, new interior lighting options, better suspension characteristics, more apps, added streaming / Googlecast, etc. etc. etc.

For the record, I think one of the "bugs" that I experienced personally was in one of the earlier releases for Gen 1 trucks back in 2022 when the screens went blank on me. Kind of freaky when it happened, but nothing altered the trucks behavior - you couldn't see anything on the infotainment screens. A hard re-set fixed the problem and a patch was issued very shortly afterwards. The only other bug that I can remember and have seen (and noticed) was with settings not "sticking" after asking the truck to remember them.

Beyond just the OTA's themselves, Rivian seems to have a very calculated and hardened roll-out process for releases. I see Scout benefitting a LOT from Rivian's experiences based on using Zonal architecture and their partnership, but time will tell.

EDIT: Forgot to add the biggest OTA updates are related to battery optimizations!
I know you love your Rivian, but there are plenty of owners that are not as enthused as you are in Rivian forums and the Rivian reddit. There are hundreds of posts complaining about one software bug or another.

These are not my own feelings, but other owner anecdotes like yours.

I fully appreciate the awesomeness of more features being added after the initial purchase. But some people had to wait over 6 months for basic things like the premium audio system they paid extra for sounding terrible until an update addressed it after many posts and Youtube videos complaining about it. Or key fobs not working like they should so people resort to carrying the key card all the time.

Some of them are minor annoyances they still can't figure out like which person is driving and remembering to change the climate controls to their preferences.

To be frank I still think Rivian is doing a phenomenal job with their software for such a young auto maker and Wassym is a very humble guy that takes his licks in the forums from end users and works towards implementing not only fixes to resolve the pain points, but also adding features that end users request. That is something you'd never see from a company like Tesla or Apple.

Them being chosen to handle the software for Scout makes me very confident that we will have a pretty polished experience compared to other launches for software defined vehicles.

In Rivians recent tech announcement it sounded like they will be ramping up the frequency of updates going forward.

They are also scrambling to get R2s out the doors and into driveways. Once they get that major milestone out of the way I am sure there will be more focus and resources available to make their software even better.

One thing I as a future Scout Motors customer would like to know, is how long it takes to trickle down Rivian stack updates to other brands?

I believe Rivian has a subscription that gives owners earlier access to updates. I also remember what it was like to own carrier locked smart phones and seeing other people getting updates right away while the carrier models either got skipped or waited a few months for their version of the software to release.

Will Rivian be able to push hot fixes without Scout being involved, like a security vulnerability patch that prevents vehicle thefts? or will we need to wait for Scouts team to get ahold of the patch and make it work with their Community UX, test it, then release it? Will it be delayed because they already planned to add some new features or their own bug fixes?

Who knows. We are just along for the ride until we get more official details.
 
I would summarize it as allocation of financial resources, and a lack of alpha testing by enough employees.

Rivian has also had a few streaks where it would fix one issue and create three new ones with each update.

Rivian will be providing the underlaying software for the Scout Motors brand, and Scout is putting their own in house Community UX on top of it. VW will also be getting their hands on Rivian software for other brands in their lineup.


It looks like their app is already pretty fleshed out in that Autopia article that discusses their roadmap for service centers and remote diagnostics model. We haven't seen the customer facing UI for doing things like locking and unlocking the car or scheduling charging yet though.

Regarding this specific video - I watched it all and it continues to back up my faith that they really care about how nice their software is to use. But, it says nothing about the actual software stack - as in who is actually writing this code.

Case in point, Polestar has their software built on top of Volvo's software stack, but all the Polestar specific software is outsourced to Infosys (a software consulting company in India). It's the Polestar specific stuff written by Infosys that has all the bugs and issues. Their android app is pretty decent though, although the API it connects to appears to also have issues.

I'd really like to know what Scouts plans are regarding how their software is written - not what it will look like.
 
Regarding this specific video - I watched it all and it continues to back up my faith that they really care about how nice their software is to use. But, it says nothing about the actual software stack - as in who is actually writing this code.

Case in point, Polestar has their software built on top of Volvo's software stack, but all the Polestar specific software is outsourced to Infosys (a software consulting company in India). It's the Polestar specific stuff written by Infosys that has all the bugs and issues. Their android app is pretty decent though, although the API it connects to appears to also have issues.

I'd really like to know what Scouts plans are regarding how their software is written - not what it will look like.
Rivian writes their own code.
 
I suspect a lot of the issues stem from moving EVERYTHING behind a screen instead of keeping buttons, or at least doing a slower transition away from buttons. There's a LOT of coding to get right. Adding app access for stuff complicated things. My bigger worry is security. If your bank can't even keep hackers out, what happens when someone decides to really target vehicles that are barely secured?
 
I know you love your Rivian, but there are plenty of owners that are not as enthused as you are in Rivian forums and the Rivian reddit. There are hundreds of posts complaining about one software bug or another.

Interesting. I have never posted on reddit regarding Rivian (or anything on reddit for that matter). Must be my alter ego A/I bot.

I don't think everything is perfect in Rivian land. I try to describe the good and the bad. In fact, I described some very specific SW bugs I have experienced. What I was giving the forum with my post was first-hand experience as an owner.

So much information gets planted onto sites like reddit then blown out of proportion and regurgitated elsewhere - its just the double edged sword of the internet I guess. I am also here as an early member and an early reservation holder. The Terra will likely be my next truck.

I really do think the partnership will help Scout immensely. I want people that have not experienced Rivian's SW to be genuinely excited, b/c I think the approach that Scout has shown so far will give them a huge boost straight into production.

Some of them are minor annoyances they still can't figure out like which person is driving and remembering to change the climate controls to their preferences.

So - PERFECT EXAMPLE of getting blown out of proportion in my view... Driver Profiles are the most basic thing.

Whoever accesses the vehicle first with an authorized "key" is the default driver and you can tie a name to each profile. That name is displayed at the top of the infotainment screen. If there is more than one authorized driver in the vehicle, you would get a drop down. If you want to switch profiles and use those settings, you tap the profile you want to use. I'm not even sure how someone could be confused by this, but people will complain about everything. I guess that is to be expected!

Screenshot 2025-12-16 at 3.49.33 PM.png
 
Whoever accesses the vehicle first with an authorized "key" is the default driver and you can tie a name to each profile. That name is displayed at the top of the infotainment screen. If there is more than one authorized driver in the vehicle, you would get a drop down. If you want to switch profiles and use those settings, you tap the profile you want to use. I'm not even sure how someone could be confused by this, but people will complain about everything. I guess that is to be expected!

Our Volvo is the same- each key is assigned to a profile and it will default to the profile of whoever accesses the car first (even if they open a non driver door). It can be annoying sometimes but not a huge issue.
 
Regarding this specific video - I watched it all and it continues to back up my faith that they really care about how nice their software is to use. But, it says nothing about the actual software stack - as in who is actually writing this code.

Case in point, Polestar has their software built on top of Volvo's software stack, but all the Polestar specific software is outsourced to Infosys (a software consulting company in India). It's the Polestar specific stuff written by Infosys that has all the bugs and issues. Their android app is pretty decent though, although the API it connects to appears to also have issues.

I'd really like to know what Scouts plans are regarding how their software is written - not what it will look like.
Respectfully, we are trying to tell you that Rivian is the one supplying the code. It was announced a while back.

This is the most recent press release about it.








Wolfsburg, Germany / Palo Alto, California. One year after its founding, the joint venture “Rivian and Volkswagen Group Technologies” (RV Tech) is successfully collaborating with the Volkswagen Group and Rivian. The development of a state-of-the-art zonal architecture for future software-defined vehicles (SDVs) is progressing. Currently, RV Tech is preparing reference vehicles from the Volkswagen, Scout, and Audi brands with the SDV architecture for winter testing in Q1 2026. At the same time, the organization is being consistently developed: RV Tech now boasts a powerful international development team of more than 1,500 employees. With its new location in Berlin, the joint venture is also strengthening cross-site collaboration with the Volkswagen Group brands in Europe.
#Technology


Founded in November 2024, the joint venture is developing a state-of-the-art zonal electronic architecture and functional software – called Software-Defined Vehicle (SDV) architecture – for the Volkswagen Group and Rivian, targeting the Western Hemisphere. In the SDV-architecture, powerful modular central computers control all vehicle functions. Customers can benefit from highly automated driving features and advanced infotainment solutions that can be continuously updated via over-the-air updates – no service center visits required. This keeps vehicles always up to date and continuously improves the driving experience.

The Volkswagen Group will deploy this SDV architecture in electric vehicles based on the upcoming SSP platform. The company aims to offer technologically leading products across various segments, price ranges, and international markets. The SSP platform is expected to support a Group-wide vehicle volume of up to 30 million units.

Rivian will use the technologies created from the joint venture for its future products, R2, R3 and R3X and to keep its current vehicle fleet updated with the latest software.

Oliver Blume, CEO of the Volkswagen Group, says: “Our joint venture with Rivian demonstrates how we at Volkswagen Group envision and deliver progress: with speed, precision, and a strong customer focus. The joint venture is rapidly developing the architecture for our future software-defined vehicles. Every step toward achieving our ambitious goals is being executed with determination and clear focus. In close collaboration with our brands, a technological foundation has been created in just twelve months that will enable a new digital driving experience for our customers at accessible prices. Together, this strategic partnership will set new standards for the future of mobility.”

RJ Scaringe, Founder and CEO of Rivian, says: “We remain incredibly excited by the work coming out of our joint venture with Volkswagen Group. RV Tech has gone from strength to strength over the last 12 months and is raising the bar in automotive technology. We’re incredibly excited about the launch of R2 in the first half of next year, which will showcase the advancements the joint venture has made.”


Winter testing with reference vehicles to begin in Q1 2026

At the beginning of 2026, RV Tech plans to send vehicles from the Volkswagen, Scout, and Audi brands into their first winter testing phase to evaluate the developed SDV features under cold conditions. The hardware and electronic architecture specifications for these reference vehicles have been defined since spring 2025. The goal is to validate the performance of the zonal SDV architecture under demanding climatic conditions.

Among the vehicles is the Volkswagen ID.EVERY1. Since summer 2025, work with engineering prototypes has been in full swing at RV Tech’s sites in Palo Alto and Irvine. The series model is scheduled to launch in 2027 as the first Group vehicle featuring a version of the SDV architecture, offering leading digital technologies in the fully electric entry-level segment.

In addition, the joint venture is working with Volkswagen Group brands on the next development stages and technical specifications for future models based on the SSP platform, which are expected to hit the market by the end of the decade. This helps to ensure that the brands can optimally align their upcoming models with the SDV architecture and integrate digital vehicle capabilities into series production in a reliable and efficient manner.

RV Tech is being systematically built up

The joint venture now boasts a powerful international development team of more than 1,500 employees. The teams are based in the USA, Canada, Sweden, Serbia, and also at a new location in Berlin. The German branch strengthens collaboration with the Group’s brands within the same time zone.


This is a Motortrend article about it




The Latest Inside Rivian’s $6 Billion Deal to Rewire Volkswagen’s Future​

An update on the VW-Rivian Joint Venture on its first anniversary.


New models for the Volkswagen, Audi, and Scout brands, imbued with Rivian tech, are preparing for winter testing according to the joint venture behind their development. Today marks the one-year anniversary of Rivian and Volkswagen Group Technologies, the joint venture between the two automakers to develop new zonal computing architecture and software that all brands of both companies will use in future electric vehicles.
The work is progressing well with a team of more than 1,500 employees in the U.S., Canada, Sweden, Serbia, and Berlin, the CEOs of both automakers told media today at an event to mark the anniversary. The $5.8 billion deal to create the JV came together because VW was struggling with software issues and Rivan, while the decidedly smaller company, is advanced in creating what every automaker is pursuing: software-defined vehicles that can reliably be enhanced by over-the-air updates long after they have been purchased. As such, new driving and infotainment features can be added without having to visit a dealership. By partnering with Rivian, the Volkswagen Group can get advanced software and electrical architecture into its vehicles sooner.

Zonal Architecture Is a Game Changer

A zonal architecture features a handful of electronic control units (ECU) that can handle multiple functions in different zones of the car, all communicating with one another. Traditional approaches involved specialized ECUs for nearly every feature or function. Zonal architecture reduces the complexity while also ensuring no overarching software is needed to facilitate communication between dozens of ECUs from different suppliers. Zonal architecture relies on in-house ECUs.

The first vehicle using this new architecture for Rivian will be the 2026 R2 SUV coming soon. It will also appear in the smaller 2027 Rivian R3 and the compact high-performance, off-road R3X, as well as updated versions of the current R1 truck and R1S SUV. “We’re incredibly excited about the launch of R2 in the first half of next year, which will showcase the advancements the joint venture has made,” said Rivian founder and CEO RJ Scaringe.

Volkswagen ID Every 1 24
Volkswagen’s Model Rollout

For the Volkswagen Group, the first vehicle is the Volkswagen ID.Every1, a tiny $22,000 electric hatchback on VW’s upcoming Scalable Systems Platform (SSP). The microcar will be built in Portugal for sale in Europe in 2027. It will not come to the U.S. The first vehicle for North America will be the electric Volkswagen Golf in 2029. The new Scout brand will also use the VW-Rivian architecture.

Winter testing of VW Group vehicles will begin in the new year to see how the zonal architecture holds up under harsh conditions and to evaluate features like driver assistance in extreme temperatures. Engineering prototypes of the ID.Every1 are already undergoing testing in Palo Alto (where the JV is headquartered) and Irvine, California. And Rivian has started winter testing of the R2 SUV.

The venture has ambitions projections of being used by about 30 vehicle programs and up to 30 million vehicles for the Volkswagen Group alone. Using Rivian’s software stack does not mean Cariad, the software arm of the Volkswagen Group that has been rife with issues, goes away. The software subsidiary continues to be responsible for existing electronic architectures: MEB, MQB, and maintenance of VW’s driver assistance systems and infotainment.


Cost-Savings and Simplicity

When designing a vehicle from scratch, you do things differently, Scaringe told media at a recent Automotive Press Association event at the Rivian facility in Plymouth, Michigan. As vehicles have added more intelligence over the past 60 years, companies have had to install more and more discrete ECUs. Today’s cars have 100 to 150 ECUs, each with its own software stack and code written by third parties so automakers are two or three levels detached from them, making it hard to manage and update.

Having a centralized computing platform where you own all the 0s in the code brings the coordinating costs way down, Scaringe said. This is the solution that Rivian licensed to VW who needed to strike quickly to compete with Chinese automakers. There are less than 10 auto companies in the world with this capability at the moment and only two—Rivian and Tesla—are outside China.

2026 Rivian R2 EV SUV 10
Trouble in Paradise?

There have been reports of some acrimony between the partners, with suggestions that the software is not as customizable as VW wanted, that Rivian is prioritizing the R2 over VW models, and Rivian is focusing on EVs rather than the combustion-powered vehicles VW wants to retroactively give zonal architecture.

The software might not be perfect, Scaringe said at the APA event in October, but he is pleased with the progress being made. He cited a seat that comes with six presets all with software requiring an ECU. “We don’t want that [from the supplier]. We want a dumb seat.” There are thousands of dollars of cost savings by these kinds of reductions and zonal architecture that can control everything. It will take time to change sourcing requirements and a reset of how companies do the electronics of a car.

Scaringe said he thinks the industry must transition to software-defined vehicles over the next 10 years. By 2035 companies need to cut costs by $3,000 to $4,000 via the adoption of over-the-air updates and he thinks it is inconceivable that companies will be able to operate without software-defined vehicles by then. Companies can do it themselves, which is hard, or they can license it, or they can do it with existing suppliers. Scaringe said while Rivian has an agreement with VW, he is open to license technology to other companies and has had a lot of interest.
 
Interesting. I have never posted on reddit regarding Rivian (or anything on reddit for that matter). Must be my alter ego A/I bot.

I don't think everything is perfect in Rivian land. I try to describe the good and the bad. In fact, I described some very specific SW bugs I have experienced. What I was giving the forum with my post was first-hand experience as an owner.

So much information gets planted onto sites like reddit then blown out of proportion and regurgitated elsewhere - its just the double edged sword of the internet I guess. I am also here as an early member and an early reservation holder. The Terra will likely be my next truck.

I really do think the partnership will help Scout immensely. I want people that have not experienced Rivian's SW to be genuinely excited, b/c I think the approach that Scout has shown so far will give them a huge boost straight into production.



So - PERFECT EXAMPLE of getting blown out of proportion in my view... Driver Profiles are the most basic thing.

Whoever accesses the vehicle first with an authorized "key" is the default driver and you can tie a name to each profile. That name is displayed at the top of the infotainment screen. If there is more than one authorized driver in the vehicle, you would get a drop down. If you want to switch profiles and use those settings, you tap the profile you want to use. I'm not even sure how someone could be confused by this, but people will complain about everything. I guess that is to be expected!

View attachment 12144
It's not all bad news. Plenty of happy and helpful folks there too.

You'll find little gems like this there as well
1765920566806.png


Looks like your old dog will still be learning some fun new tricks.
 
It's not all bad news. Plenty of happy and helpful folks there too.

You'll find little gems like this there as well View attachment 12145

Looks like your old dog will still be learning some fun new tricks.

If they had support for a Garmin watch, I might actually wear it. I got most of my launching out of my system back in 2022 during the first month of ownership LOL...
 
I would summarize it as allocation of financial resources, and a lack of alpha testing by enough employees.

Rivian has also had a few streaks where it would fix one issue and create three new ones with each update.

Rivian will be providing the underlaying software for the Scout Motors brand, and Scout is putting their own in house Community UX on top of it. VW will also be getting their hands on Rivian software for other brands in their lineup.


It looks like their app is already pretty fleshed out in that Autopia article that discusses their roadmap for service centers and remote diagnostics model. We haven't seen the customer facing UI for doing things like locking and unlocking the car or scheduling charging yet though.
Yes. Nice video. Thanks for that.
 
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Respectfully, we are trying to tell you that Rivian is the one supplying the code. It was announced a while back.

This is the most recent press release about it.


Thank you for linking the article! I was under the impression that Rivian was just supplying the framework and it would still need extra software stacked on top of it that they were not responsible for. I see in the article they are explicitly testing Scouts though. Appreciate the info and sources!
 
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