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5klbs towing cap with gas range extender?
- Thread starter mattrawls93
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EV towing is amazing, with range being the obvious exception. In my area, pull-thru chargers are few and far between so the Harvester option is a major selling factor for me. Hopeful that Scout can offer a tow package option with heavier rear springs or airbags to overcome the tongue weight impact of the rear engine/fuel tank. Even mid-size trucks are coming with 7500lb tow ratings these days, so 5k as speculated is going to be a deal-breaker.
Welcome to the big show and thanks for posting. Glad to have you participating in the forum! Happy Friday!
What range are you rated and what range do you see when towing that lovely boat? One of the things that kept me from taking the plunge on a Lightning was the video from TFL where it only went about 90 miles on a full charge.
With this one I get about 110 mi (weighs ~6k with a full tank and all the gear inside), 98kW battery in the Lightning. Thankfully my local lake is 5 mi away and the river launch we like to go to is 35 mi out. I towed a SeaDoo pontoon last summer which was much lighter, but the square shape was like having a parachute and dropped me to about 80 mi at highway speeds. Aero make a big difference and this is all on generally flat lands.
Taking her up to Tahoe this summer which will be a 6500' climb, expecting to stop and charge once, maybe twice but the second location doesn't have a pull-thru. Curious to see how much regen I get on the drive back.
Note for those who aren’t familiar with the Lightning. The 98 kWh battery is the Standard Range battery, which gets approximately 240 miles EPA. The Extended Range battery (131 kWh) gets about 320 miles EPA.
At the time when the Lightning was really being reviewed I was working a job where I was towing my 16’ utility trailer nearly every day back and forth about 120 miles round trip, not counting small runoffs for materials/dump/etc. Knowing that I’d only be able to trickle on a 110v I just could not convince myself that the smaller pack would work for me, but wasn’t really convinced the bigger pack would work either.
Your comment about the aerodynamics of the trailer making a big difference reminds me of a video on YouTube I came across a while back where the guy did repeated runs in the Silverado EV and varied the trailer’s weight as well as aerodynamics and he found the aerodynamics played a significantly larger role in the efficiency than the weight. So much so, that the unladen with terrible aerodynamics was worse than the fully weighted trailer.
Yes, definitely.
Aerodynamics are the most important consideration for efficiency while towing at any speed above about 30-35 mph. With trailer axle and tire rolling resistance the second consideration. Then you start to get to the less important things like weight.
Just think about it this way: A 10 pound, fully-deployed parachute that can stop a 150 mph stock car would be a lot more difficult to tow than a 5,000 pound trailer full of bricks.
Aerodynamics is one reason all manufacturers include a limit on the trailer's maximum forward-facing surface area in their towing guides. Most people don’t bother to read the stickers on their door jamb, much less the guides…
The reasons weight matters are: 1) thermal considerations; 2) starting and stopping; and 3) it’s an easy thing to talk about and to flex about. But apparently it’s much more difficult to say, “don’t tow a trailer with more than 60 square feet front surface area.”
Im with you...i think many are. This has to do with the positioning of the gas engine at the rear and the tongue weight. I think its inescapable and definitely has me rethinking the reservation type. Plus, with the delays, its quite possible that advances in batteries might nake the whole platform obsolete by the time it actually rolls out! Imagine they now take a couple extra years, or more, to finally roll out an erev that costs more and has less range and lower performance than a competitors bev...or thier own! And this after having spent those years tooling up for anticipated high erev uptake that does not materialize. This whole thing might just have gone the way of the ID buzz.
The towing limitations of the Terra Harvester have me considering the Ram REV as another option. I’d just like to see Ram offer the REV with a Rebel setup on taller tires. The REV has potential, if Ram can pull it off!
Having driven EVs for 16 years now, I can tell you that the "next battery breakthrough" has been 2 years away that entire time. It's always just around the corner. Seriously, there is 0% chance there will be any advances in batteries in the next 2 years that will dethrone NMC/LFP in energy density at a reasonable cost.
Also, I recall Jamie saying that the limitation is currently more due to thermal management than tongue weight.
That being said, Ram is definitely out to build a towing machine. Scout is more of a lifestyle vehicle. I think if they can get the towing to 7k that will cover a huge number of people. My boat (Yamaha 242X) weighs 6k with the trailer. My WK Diesel is rated at 7,400lbs and tows the boat no problem. I am BEV so it won' t be an issue for me but if I was going Harvester I would like a 7k rating.
I think the heat issue is separate. I believe that they are having that issue but I don't think its related to the towing reduction! That's clearly tongue weight. Its physics and engine placement. I would argue that there have been many battery breakthroughs in the last 16 years... in energy density, materials , architecture and charging speeds. That being said, the battery they spec'd will still be viable as its already promised to have a lot of good qualities in those regards. However, the industry moves fast...just look at how quickly they are iterating in China while some analysts have estimated Scout might not even start delivering till 2030. Its not just what you deliver to market but also when. RivianR2 is coming out this year...R3 soon after, and other truck makers have viable platforms as well. If Scout enters a market already flooded with competitors that have bridged whatever gap Scout could have created, it will surely affect sales.
If you need the towing capacity at that level, then that may be the better choice. Or, really, you should consider a medium- or heavy-duty truck. Let's also see where the Terra comes in when the dust settles.