Is there anything SM could offer to get you to switch from EREV to BEV?

[Gottesacker]

I’m Terra Harvester.

The thing that could sway me to BEV is final specifications and pricing.

I wanted the Harvester mainly for towing purposes. I remember TFL doing a test with the Lightning maxing it out and only being able to go 89 miles… and that just would not do it for me. On the other hand, if the Harvester can’t tow 7k+ then BEV may be the better direction for me.

I definitely like the lower maintenance idea of the BEV, but if we’re literally talking 1-2 times a year I just don’t see that being that much.

So… that was basically a non-answer to the question, haha.

 

[SrfnFly227]

I'm sitting firmly on the fence at the moment. My reservation is for Traveler EREV, but I'm currently leaning BEV. I should probably change my reservation, but I honestly don't think I'll make a decision one way or the other until right up to the moment I order. I don't see incentives like a home charger or a spot in line for my next vehicle moving the needle for me. What will sway my decision?

- Pricing. If the Harvester option is the same price as the biggest battery BEV, I'd likely go BEV. If Harvester is less expensive, likely EREV.
- Range. Do they hit the current range targets? If the Harvester end up being 100 mile battery and 400 total, I won't find it worth it. Likewise, if the BEV ends up being 300 miles, I'll pass. Flipside to that, if the Harvester hits the 150/500 and the BEV ends up being 400, then I'll jump to BEV given the price of that max battery isn't too high.
- Maitenance. I find myself not caring on this one. I have always owned ICE vehicles so I'm used to maintenance. As @Gottesacker said above, we're only talking about 1 mx visit a year. That just doesn't weigh in to my decision making.


Now what I could see being an awesome way to get some good will out of early reservation holders would be offering the launch edition with the max battery for no extra charge. For Scout, ony battery for launch simplifies their manufacturing process and it gets people out there in the BEV. For the customers, it would send the message that they care about the people who went out on a limb reserving a position before specifics were known. Getting that kind of upgrade may even sway some EREV orders, especially if EREV is 2029 delivery after a year of BEV only.

 

[J Alynn]

I'm sitting firmly on the fence at the moment. My reservation is for Traveler EREV, but I'm currently leaning BEV. I should probably change my reservation, but I honestly don't think I'll make a decision one way or the other until right up to the moment I order. I don't see incentives like a home charger or a spot in line for my next vehicle moving the needle for me. What will sway my decision?

- Pricing. If the Harvester option is the same price as the biggest battery BEV, I'd likely go BEV. If Harvester is less expensive, likely EREV.
- Range. Do they hit the current range targets? If the Harvester end up being 100 mile battery and 400 total, I won't find it worth it. Likewise, if the BEV ends up being 300 miles, I'll pass. Flipside to that, if the Harvester hits the 150/500 and the BEV ends up being 400, then I'll jump to BEV given the price of that max battery isn't too high.
- Maitenance. I find myself not caring on this one. I have always owned ICE vehicles so I'm used to maintenance. As @Gottesacker said above, we're only talking about 1 mx visit a year. That just doesn't weigh in to my decision making.


Now what I could see being an awesome way to get some good will out of early reservation holders would be offering the launch edition with the max battery for no extra charge. For Scout, ony battery for launch simplifies their manufacturing process and it gets people out there in the BEV. For the customers, it would send the message that they care about the people who went out on a limb reserving a position before specifics were known. Getting that kind of upgrade may even sway some EREV orders, especially if EREV is 2029 delivery after a year of BEV only.

That’s an interesting take and I like that idea. As a launch on a new vehicle a company in general is likely to do some “discounted” option or a unique opportunity so buying good will with Max battery is a win-win and also gets all the new owners talking about how great BEV is which helps influence a lot of second round buyers

 

[R1TVT]

Here are a few themes I'm picking up from EREV reservations holders (in this thread and across the site):

1. Price is an important driver - as well as "value"
2. Production Specs for comparison between EREV & BEV may sway reservation holders (either way) if pricing is too high
3. Maintenance is a BIG factor in the EREV equation

From a maintenance perspective, Scout would greatly benefit by making an oil & filter change super easy & intuitive for any owner, and allow for easy access to the Harvester (without any specialized tools or tech skills). Scout could leverage a "maintenance mode" in the software for owners (via the infotainment screen) with a simple video or step-by-step process that owners could check through as they go. This could create a timestamp and automatically record the hour interval for any service performed by an owner, in essence creating a self-service "service log". This would ensure that owners are following the proper Scout procedure and ensure that owners are performing their service at the regular maintenance intervals for the Harvester, which could even be a requirement (meaning the truck may go into turtle mode or some other mode if you exceed the Harvester maintenance interval by XX% and continue to engage the Harvester). This could be a good protective measure for Scout, and owners would ONLY be able to run electric if they exceeded the window.

I'm curious what the maintenance window would be? I'm guessing it will be hours-based. Outboard 4-stroke manufacturers recommend 100-hour service intervals (oil change, lube, filter). I'm guessing every 100-200 hours would be in the range of possibilities for the Harvester, but maybe there are better comparisons than looking at an outboard 4-stroke maintenance comparison?

 

[rsynoski]

Here are a few themes I'm picking up from EREV reservations holders (in this thread and across the site):

1. Price is an important driver - as well as "value"
2. Production Specs for comparison between EREV & BEV may sway reservation holders (either way) if pricing is too high
3. Maintenance is a BIG factor in the EREV equation

From a maintenance perspective, Scout would greatly benefit by making an oil & filter change super easy & intuitive for any owner, and allow for easy access to the Harvester (without any specialized tools or tech skills). Scout could leverage a "maintenance mode" in the software for owners (via the infotainment screen) with a simple video or step-by-step process that owners could check through as they go. This could create a timestamp and automatically record the hour interval for any service performed by an owner, in essence creating a self-service "service log". This would ensure that owners are following the proper Scout procedure and ensure that owners are performing their service at the regular maintenance intervals for the Harvester, which could even be a requirement (meaning the truck may go into turtle mode or some other mode if you exceed the Harvester maintenance interval by XX% and continue to engage the Harvester). This could be a good protective measure for Scout, and owners would ONLY be able to run electric if they exceeded the window.

I'm curious what the maintenance window would be? I'm guessing it will be hours-based. Outboard 4-stroke manufacturers recommend 100-hour service intervals (oil change, lube, filter). I'm guessing every 100-200 hours would be in the range of possibilities for the Harvester, but maybe there are better comparisons than looking at an outboard 4-stroke maintenance comparison?

There are a number of parallels between Harvester and an 4-stroke outboard, both are compact designs with space constraints, and both run at near max power continuously.

 

[cyure]

There are a number of parallels between Harvester and an 4-stroke outboard, both are compact designs with space constraints, and both run at near max power continuously.

Welcome to the community.

So what does that do to an engine having to run like that?

 

[rsynoski]

Welcome to the community.

So what does that do to an engine having to run like that?

I'm not that kind of engineer, but my understanding is that there is increased wear and tear on the engine. Automobile engines only run at 20-30% power continuously and only briefly (if ever) at full output. Running one a 80-90% would significantly reduce it's life span. Engines designed to be run continuously at high power tend to be more robust implementations.

 

[R1TVT]

There are a number of parallels between Harvester and an 4-stroke outboard, both are compact designs with space constraints, and both run at near max power continuously.

Agreed - but I also spend a lot of time at idle (not max power), but it still counts the same in terms of hours running for maintenance purposes. As you point out, the Harvester will operate at a continuous and steady power level.

i was also thinking that somewhere in the 100-200 hour rang is also a common recommended interval for certain generators.

My Yamaha screens yells at me everytime I hit the 100 hour interval, then provides a warning each time the engine is started that looks like this:

 

[THil08]

Here’s some EREV maintenance and possibilities:

BMW REx was once every 12 months or every 12,000 miles. Things to keep in mind, BMW REx failed due to problems, and due to it being not very efficient with how it was optimized. Scouts will be more optimized from what they have shown. So it could be longer, or shorter depending on how they decide to have maintenance planned.

Engines seem intimidating until you wrench on one, are rebuilt it from the ground up. The best way to keep an engine running smoothly and having no issues, is Oil AND Oil Filter(something that I’ve recently been seeing getting skipped during services), Air Filter, Spark Plugs. The nice part about Scout having an app that will have a service AI, is that if the Harvester was to need any adjustments that the onboard computer handles, the AI could supposedly have access to change those settings if Scout enables it for owners.


I don’t know exactly if Scout would need to have another ECU for Harvester. Because it would most likely need a Digital Motor Electronics (DME) which would technically be the Harvester ECU.

I’m sure this will probably throw people off and move to the BEV, but it’s really not that bad.

 

[R1TVT]

Looking at 12,000 miles at an AVG of 50MPH would put you at a 240 hour service interval, which seems entirely within the realm of possibilities, but of course, all speculation at this stage in the game. Maybe that avge speed is too high and the service interval could be longer (like every 400 hours at 30MPH). The great thing about SW is that Scout can make this super easy and run all the recommended service calculations and provide simple maintenance alerts or messages in the U/I.

Is it easy for a BMW Rex owner to do their own oil change, or is that more of a service center requirement?

 

[Mirinjesse]

Longer range and fast charging are really the only two things that would I would consider switching to EV only for.

And before someone replies with the “average daily commute xx,” I don’t want it for the daily commute, I want this for the once a month busy weekends, where I’m visiting family, towing, on the go and I just do not have the time to recharge from zero to 100, so I have to L2 at home in quick spirts throughout the day before I hit the road again. My lightening with ~330, would be great if it had the sierra 400-450 mileage IMO.

This is exactly why I preordered the harvester, for the opportunities where I just don’t have the time to mess around finding a charger on the go.

 

[6-ScoutFamily]

I'm sitting firmly on the fence at the moment. My reservation is for Traveler EREV, but I'm currently leaning BEV. I should probably change my reservation, but I honestly don't think I'll make a decision one way or the other until right up to the moment I order. I don't see incentives like a home charger or a spot in line for my next vehicle moving the needle for me. What will sway my decision?

- Pricing. If the Harvester option is the same price as the biggest battery BEV, I'd likely go BEV. If Harvester is less expensive, likely EREV.
- Range. Do they hit the current range targets? If the Harvester end up being 100 mile battery and 400 total, I won't find it worth it. Likewise, if the BEV ends up being 300 miles, I'll pass. Flipside to that, if the Harvester hits the 150/500 and the BEV ends up being 400, then I'll jump to BEV given the price of that max battery isn't too high.
- Maitenance. I find myself not caring on this one. I have always owned ICE vehicles so I'm used to maintenance. As @Gottesacker said above, we're only talking about 1 mx visit a year. That just doesn't weigh in to my decision making.


Now what I could see being an awesome way to get some good will out of early reservation holders would be offering the launch edition with the max battery for no extra charge. For Scout, ony battery for launch simplifies their manufacturing process and it gets people out there in the BEV. For the customers, it would send the message that they care about the people who went out on a limb reserving a position before specifics were known. Getting that kind of upgrade may even sway some EREV orders, especially if EREV is 2029 delivery after a year of BEV only.

I’m with you on the ICE maintenance. It’s a robust, long lived technology. If SM is designing for 80% user serviceability I have no issue doing those ICE things myself. Not counting the BEV out, it’s pretty cool. I think part of what gives me pause is the state of DCFC in non-corridor locations, like rural missouri, parts of Montana, Wyoming, etc. All places I will want to go to.

 

[6-ScoutFamily]

Something that might entice EREV people to go BEV-eventually-would be a really good 2-year lease deal. My reservation is Terra Harvester. If I could get a relatively inexpensive 2-year lease with a reasonable mileage limit (whatever that may be) I would likely stick with my reservation and then decide what to do at termination. I’ve never leased a vehicle, and as a Dave Ramsey devotee the idea makes me cringe—but it might be viable in this situation.

 

[THil08]

Looking at 12,000 miles at an AVG of 50MPH would put you at a 240 hour service interval, which seems entirely within the realm of possibilities, but of course, all speculation at this stage in the game. Maybe that avge speed is too high and the service interval could be longer (like every 400 hours at 30MPH). The great thing about SW is that Scout can make this super easy and run all the recommended service calculations and provide simple maintenance alerts or messages in the U/I.

Is it easy for a BMW Rex owner to do their own oil change, or is that more of a service center requirement?

Service center is required. It’s in a horrible spot to get to for an owner to service.

 

[Nmagnatta]

The only thing I'm on the fence about is Terra or Traveler. I'm 100% on board for BEV. I took a road trip in a Chevy Blazer EV over the summer and was just fine waiting an extra 20 - 30 minutes to get the extra juice into the battery. We got food, Kids went to the Bathroom and we were able to eat and enjoy our time.

 

[J Alynn]

The only thing I'm on the fence about is Terra or Traveler. I'm 100% on board for BEV. I took a road trip in a Chevy Blazer EV over the summer and was just fine waiting an extra 20 - 30 minutes to get the extra juice into the battery. We got food, Kids went to the Bathroom and we were able to eat and enjoy our time.

There is the hurdle. How do you change people’s mindsets. I still think EV charge locations like Ionna should have a 4 to 6 hole mini golf/put-put course and a cornhole set up, a washers set up and my favorite, the swinging ring on a hook game. That would allow a mental break for drivers and kids and you’d blow off 20 minutes in no time playing a game

 

[THil08]

Service center is required. It’s in a horrible spot to get to for an owner to service.

 

[BeerParty]

Now what I could see being an awesome way to get some good will out of early reservation holders would be offering the launch edition with the max battery for no extra charge.

While that would be an excellent perk, I doubt that it will happen. The difference in cost between the stand-range battery and long range battery in the Ford F-150 Lightning is about $10,000. I would expect the cost difference in the Scout's different battery offerings to be similar. I am sure they will be as generous as they can for the early adopters, but I don't think it is reasonable to expect that sort of discount.

 

[BeerParty]

There is the hurdle. How do you change people’s mindsets. I still think EV charge locations like Ionna should have a 4 to 6 hole mini golf/put-put course and a cornhole set up, a washers set up and my favorite, the swinging ring on a hook game. That would allow a mental break for drivers and kids and you’d blow off 20 minutes in no time playing a game

Honestly, I am happy if the DCFC charging locations provide bathrooms and a place to buy drinks/snacks.

With my HI5 I only need to stop at a DCFC for about 20 minutes (thanks to the 800V architecture). And since that's after 2.5 to 3 hours of driving I want a bio-break. That's one of the reasons I was happy when Walmart announced they were putting DCFC at all their stories. There are a lot of Electrify America DCFCs in Walmarts (which are going to be replaced with WalMart versions, I know), and I aim for them if I can when route planning. Now that Walmart is doing DCFC in all their locations, finding a DCFC with bathrooms and food/drinks while traveling will be a lot easier.

 

[Chaz26]

Honestly, I am happy if the DCFC charging locations provide bathrooms and a place to buy drinks/snacks.

With my HI5 I only need to stop at a DCFC for about 20 minutes (thanks to the 800V architecture). And since that's after 2.5 to 3 hours of driving I want a bio-break. That's one of the reasons I was happy when Walmart announced they were putting DCFC at all their stories. There are a lot of Electrify America DCFCs in Walmarts (which are going to be replaced with WalMart versions, I know), and I aim for them if I can when route planning. Now that Walmart is doing DCFC in all their locations, finding a DCFC with bathrooms and food/drinks while traveling will be a lot easier.

I haven't been to any, or fully read into the Walmart chargers other than I'm aware they're doing it. Do you know if they will be putting both NACS and CCS cables on their chargers from the get go? The more stations between now and then that have both or just NACS the better to save needing adapters. I already have a CCS to NACS adapter but since it was for my Tesla and I got it back in 2022 it is only rated for up to 400V.