He is my scout, I've owned 17 years and personally put 125k on the 304 4 speed.
Im more of a 37" tire guy, are we going to need a lift kit or will these squeeze in?
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I would be surprised if no modification needed to clear a 37 inch tire on new scout , who knows what off-road packages they will offer ?
I don’t know where things will play out on this but at reveal there was talk of 37’s but nothing mentioned if that will require some mods or be an off-road package with included mods, etc…
When I was at Nats I asked if it was lifted with the 35s. I was told not a traditional lift but an “off road setup”. That seems to be what they keep saying.
I’m hoping I can trick the air system up a little bit to fit 37”s.
Their sidewall is only 1” taller than 35”s.
If you want long travel you can expect to spend about $10k-$25k.
But you won’t need to regear which saves you about $2k-$3k. So it’s a wash, right?!
However, if Scout isn’t courting aftermarket vendors now, it may be a while before we see 3rd party lift kits become available.
Their sidewall is only 1” taller than 35”s.
If you want long travel you can expect to spend about $10k-$25k.
But you won’t need to regear which saves you about $2k-$3k. So it’s a wash, right?!
However, if Scout isn’t courting aftermarket vendors now, it may be a while before we see 3rd party lift kits become available.
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Okay I have a question. Other than looks, because I love a big off road tire, what does having 37s do? I have 33s on my Wrangler and I really want 35s on my Scout but I will be honest, for me it’s as much a looks thing as anything else.
I don’t think you’ll need a lift for 37”s (unless you do a lot of full-stuff driving), but they’ll likely rub on full turn.
For the most part, the only way to get more underbody ground clearance (where it matters for off-roading) is to put taller tires on.
Tires are the largest shock absorber in your suspension system.
They absorb most of the impact from bumps and imperfections in the road.
The more sidewall you have, the smoother your ride is.
You gain an eye watering 2” more in clearance under your axles by going from 33” tires to 37”s.
You moderately improve your approach and departure angles so you can go up and down steep hills without smashing your bumpers.
You also improve your breakover angle. This means you are less likely to see-saw with your tires in the air by getting your center stuck going over a sand dune or sharply pointed hill.
But with ICE vehicles you will need to regear. Not regearing for larger tires is like pedaling your bike in the tallest gear all the time. So that’s a few grand at a minimum.
You also typically upgrade the axles themselves when that much rotational mass (they are much heavier and taller) starts snapping ball joints, hubs, and axle shafts. Which is closer to $10k-$20k.
Some vehicles also benefit from a tune so your shift points, temperatures, and pressures improve as the more strained drivetrain is turning a few hundred more pounds all the time.
You’ll also likely need to clearance fenders, add wheel spacers or get aftermarket wheels, and replace suspension and steering components to keep the much wider tires from rubbing like an undersexed barrel of monkeys.
All that being said, sometimes that extra 2” under your axle or bumper may be the difference between you making it up an obstacle or having to find a bypass.
TLDR: 37”s is a great way to make $40k disappear.
This is a much more thorough answer than mine.
I have an addition and a comment.
Speedometer and Odometer Calibration:
If you put 37” tires on a 33" OEM vehicle, you’ll also need to recalibrate your speedometer and odometer. If your speedometer is calibrated for 33” tires and reads 70 mph, you’re going closer to 79 mph with 37” tires. This can also get you into legal trouble if you don’t recalibrate the odometer because larger tires rotate fewer times (register fewer miles) for any given true distance driven. A 37” tire will register about 89% the distance driven if the odometer is calibrated for 33” tires. In my state (and many others), the installation of larger tires can constitute odometer fraud. I wouldn’t trust without verification the miles on a vehicle that has larger tires than stock. Example: A 33” tire might give the vehicle a 100,000 mile odometer reading but if it had 37s on a 33” calibrated odometer, it would read only 89,000 miles. A vehicle with 35s shows about 94% the miles compared to a 33” calibration.
Smooth ride:
For road travel, I inflate my tires to the maximum pressure that makes sense for my vehicle use, which usually means just a few PSI below the tire’s max pressure rating and almost always higher than the OEM recommended pressure, which is balanced for comfort. That higher pressure mitigates a lot of the shock absorber nature of the tire.
Great points.
I’ve spent years of driving of driving with speedometers that read too low and just use Waze to monitor my speeds. If you correct your final drive ratio with numerically higher diff gears you can get pretty close though. 4.88 gears with 37”s is as close as it gets to the factory ratio. (At least for Toyotas it is)
Regarding pressures, if you are running 37”s I highly doubt you care about range or efficiency enough to max out tire pressure.
You’ll still have a plusher ride when you’re running lower pressures offroad with all that extra sidewall (assuming you’re not running 22” wheels with 37”s)
Let’s not forget the most important consideration when preparing for 37”s, brakes.
Stopping is important.
Your factory brakes aren’t designed for that much rotating mass and it’s noticeable right away with larger tires. There are more “Oh sh*t that stop sign is getting closer and we aren’t stopping” moments. The first thing anyone should do is upgrade to some performance brakes if they plan to run oversized tires.
The brakes issue is something that has surprised a lot of my friends who forgot their high school physics.
Brakes don't stop a vehicle.
At least not directly.
Brakes stop tires from rotating.
Tires then---hopefully---stop a vehicle by rotating at lower and lower speeds while maintaining a decently controlled frictional relationship with the road surface.
And you need brakes sized for the tires and their mass (mass distribution).
I'm a little surprised there isn't more talk about efficiency, but I also understand that the reason for up-sizing is really related to very specific off-road uses cases where efficiency may be less important. I'm guessing that the efficiency and performance penalty for swapping to 37's would be significant. You are talking about a lot more rotational mass, more wind resistance on the tire itself, more friction on the pavement or any surface AND you now have a vehicle that sits higher off the ground. Even with the minor differences in Rivian's tire and wheel selections, there were penalties to pay (see chart below). Larger tires are also going to reduce 0-60 times, acceleration and deceleration. Even in an EV, I'm guessing that there will be a lot more stress on the drivetrain, suspension and motors. Last thing I would add - TIRE NOISE on pavement can be a big deterrent in a stealthy EV when swapping up.
I run 20's with AT's for about 6 months of the year, and would say that the below range estimates are about right (maybe a bit low since SW improvements and since I run the AT's in warmer months, and see a little better range on an aftermarket 20" wheel from Atomic). My range is probably somewhere between 280 and 290 miles on the AT's.
Rivian (Gen 1 Launch edition) with Large battery:
I run 20's with AT's for about 6 months of the year, and would say that the below range estimates are about right (maybe a bit low since SW improvements and since I run the AT's in warmer months, and see a little better range on an aftermarket 20" wheel from Atomic). My range is probably somewhere between 280 and 290 miles on the AT's.
Rivian (Gen 1 Launch edition) with Large battery:
- 21" Wheel/Tire = 314 Mile Range *** 33 inch diameter tire
- 20" Wheel/Tire = 274 Mile Range (40 mile reduction) *** 34 inch diameter tire
- 22" Wheel/Tire = 293 Mile Range (21 mile reduction). *** 33 inch diameter tire
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I mentioned efficiency briefly because people that are slapping tires on that weigh about 75lbs a piece are not concerned about efficiency.
With ICE vehicles we are talking single digit MPG. I’m sure electric vehicles will be no different.
Tire noise has very little to do with their size. You can have a 31” mud terrain that will howl louder than a 37” all terrain on the highway. I’m still confused why people keep bringing this up. Wind resistance and NVH usually comes with more aggressive tread patterns, not the size of the tire.
Totally agree that you can have smaller diameter / super loud tires... You can't ignore physics and science when you increase size, weight, profile, etc. If people are going to run 37's, by all means go nuts! But you'd be kidding yourself if you didn't think there would be a tangible penalties involved. Since we are talking about EV's, efficiency is often a discussion point. That is my only point.
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