Externally configurable buttons

[MrZed411]

Watching JerryRigEverythings video on the Rivian R1S Gen 2, I had an idea.

Configurable external button(s).

The biggest point of that video was the vehicle from a wheelchair users prospective, being able to get in/out use the vehicle as a wheelchair user. One of the talking points was about being about to lower the suspension to help get it lower to the ground to get in easier. This is something I believe is only doable from the dash of the vehicle.

Imagine you had a button or 2 or 4 on the outside of the vehicle that was easily accessible and could be configured to do anything the vehicle could do through the touchscreen. Need to open the hood often, configure a button. Need to press a lock button yourself to feel safer, configure a button. Need to lower the suspension to get in/ out easier as a wheelchair user, configure a button.

I don't think this needs to be a large number of buttons, maybe just one on the door handle similar to the lock button most new vehicles have, but allow it to be configurable. Or it could be a keypad to unlock and then configured buttons while it is unlocked. There are many possible permutations, but just that general idea of allowing a user to not need to get fully into the vehicle to perform a task/change of the vehicle.

A lot of EVs use phone-as-key anyways so if you use that and it locks automatically as you walk away, that button could be used for something else. Obviously it should be required to have the vehicle unlocked to use, but it is just a small thing that could allow for more user choice in what the vehicle does, and has some accessibility uses as well.

 

[J Alynn]

Watching JerryRigEverythings video on the Rivian R1S Gen 2, I had an idea.

Configurable external button(s).
View attachment 6462View attachment 6463

The biggest point of that video was the vehicle from a wheelchair users prospective, being able to get in/out use the vehicle as a wheelchair user. One of the talking points was about being about to lower the suspension to help get it lower to the ground to get in easier. This is something I believe is only doable from the dash of the vehicle.

Imagine you had a button or 2 or 4 on the outside of the vehicle that was easily accessible and could be configured to do anything the vehicle could do through the touchscreen. Need to open the hood often, configure a button. Need to press a lock button yourself to feel safer, configure a button. Need to lower the suspension to get in/ out easier as a wheelchair user, configure a button.

I don't think this needs to be a large number of buttons, maybe just one on the door handle similar to the lock button most new vehicles have, but allow it to be configurable. Or it could be a keypad to unlock and then configured buttons while it is unlocked. There are many possible permutations, but just that general idea of allowing a user to not need to get fully into the vehicle to perform a task/change of the vehicle.

A lot of EVs use phone-as-key anyways so if you use that and it locks automatically as you walk away, that button could be used for something else. Obviously it should be required to have the vehicle unlocked to use, but it is just a small thing that could allow for more user choice in what the vehicle does, and has some accessibility uses as well.

Love the idea so long as they are subtle or an add on package. The white vehicle with e hardy keypad just looks like an afterthought. May sound childish but I would probably not buy a Scout if a tacked on keypad was added on every vehicle. If it’s an add on go for it but with so many spots to “hide” buttons I’m sure it could be done tastefully and still be very accessible

 

[bsddrake]

If I were doing it, I'd just implement a long press, or a double click function on an existing button. Adding hardware, just creates more things to break over time.

 

[dreamweaver]

Love the idea so long as they are subtle or an add on package. The white vehicle with e hardy keypad just looks like an afterthought. May sound childish but I would probably not buy a Scout if a tacked on keypad was added on every vehicle. If it’s an add on go for it but with so many spots to “hide” buttons I’m sure it could be done tastefully and still be very accessible

Or, maybe a different kind of remote for these options. Just a thought.

 

[MrZed411]

Love the idea so long as they are subtle or an add on package. The white vehicle with e hardy keypad just looks like an afterthought. May sound childish but I would probably not buy a Scout if a tacked on keypad was added on every vehicle. If it’s an add on go for it but with so many spots to “hide” buttons I’m sure it could be done tastefully and still be very accessible

Yes exactly, implementing the button(s) into the design would be important. I personally really like being able to lock my vehicle with the button on the door handle and with the design matching the vehicle it does not look out of place. This would be a compliment to that feature.

If I were doing it, I'd just implement a long press, or a double click function on an existing button. Adding hardware, just creates more things to break over time.

I think this would be a great way to do it. Say a short press is locking the vehicle, a long press is configurable to something like open the trunk/frunk, double press is lower the suspension height.. Then a user could change the defaults so if they want the external outlets to be able to turn on quickly by doubling tapping instead.. That general idea of giving at least quick configurable button is what I am discussing here.

 

[MrZed411]

Or, maybe a different kind of remote for these options. Just a thought.

Has any form of remote/key been shown/discussed yet? Maybe instead of having the traditional lock, unlock, horn, trunk options on the remote it had a 5th configurable button or replace the trunk with a configurable one.. I wouldn't want another remote for this but if the remote/key that came with the vehicle had it I would 100% use the feature.

I am unaware of the apps for most other evs like tesla/rivian, but do their apps have like a dashboard page where you can add your own placement of buttons/widgets to do actions with the car? Maybe you could have the app open to a dashboard you create and there it has these options. I could see that being a decent alternative to having a button on the outside of the vehicle, but I would prefer if the vehicle could be used in this way without an app like the button on the handle or the 5th remote button.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

The Rivian app apparently allows one, from the phone, to engage the "kneel mode" to lower the suspension on one side of the vehicle.

The Ford app allows to set up the phone as a key (I don't use it). Without Phone as Key, one can still use the phone to lock/unlock the vehicle, remotely start it and start the HVAC. There's no user-modifiable options on the Ford app. Several people have written their own dashboard and integrated their vehicle into their smart home servers, but one has to be careful not to hit the Ford servers too many times in some time period or it will lock out their ID and then they lose remote access. Mostly this is for "security" where "security" here is more theater than anything else.

An upfitter interface would allow this kind of integration by after-market suppliers. For example, if Scout Motors included an open-standards upfitter module, one could replace the standard door handle with one that has as many buttons as seems necessary, each programmed to do a specific thing and each integrated into the upfitter module. That module would be programmed to activate specific CANBUS (or whatever bus Scout ends up using) actions based on button presses. This would keep the R&D costs down for Scout Motors but still make it possible for all kinds of interesting 3rd party options that look and feel and act factory.

For example, a button on the remote could be programmed to tell the vehicle to kneel. Another button---or a continued press on the same button---could then tell a door to open and lower a wheelchair lift. Or whatever. Lots and lots of options.

The key is an open standard and easy access to an upfitter module so all the really clever 3rd party people out there can offer things Scout never imagined would be needed or desired. It would create a much more inclusive vehicle than is typically available.

 

[J Alynn]

The Rivian app apparently allows one, from the phone, to engage the "kneel mode" to lower the suspension on one side of the vehicle.

The Ford app allows to set up the phone as a key (I don't use it). Without Phone as Key, one can still use the phone to lock/unlock the vehicle, remotely start it and start the HVAC. There's no user-modifiable options on the Ford app. Several people have written their own dashboard and integrated their vehicle into their smart home servers, but one has to be careful not to hit the Ford servers too many times in some time period or it will lock out their ID and then they lose remote access. Mostly this is for "security" where "security" here is more theater than anything else.

An upfitter interface would allow this kind of integration by after-market suppliers. For example, if Scout Motors included an open-standards upfitter module, one could replace the standard door handle with one that has as many buttons as seems necessary, each programmed to do a specific thing and each integrated into the upfitter module. That module would be programmed to activate specific CANBUS (or whatever bus Scout ends up using) actions based on button presses. This would keep the R&D costs down for Scout Motors but still make it possible for all kinds of interesting 3rd party options that look and feel and act factory.

For example, a button on the remote could be programmed to tell the vehicle to kneel. Another button---or a continued press on the same button---could then tell a door to open and lower a wheelchair lift. Or whatever. Lots and lots of options.

The key is an open standard and easy access to an upfitter module so all the really clever 3rd party people out there can offer things Scout never imagined would be needed or desired. It would create a much more inclusive vehicle than is typically available.

I think some of this could be SM source and when you take delivery (say experience center) they could walk you through those set ups and program it for you before you leave with vehicle. The BMW delivery experience dI’d all that for me years ago. Car was fully set up before I drove away.

 

[R1TVT]

Many of the requested functions here can be either built-in to the truck or the app. For example, if you needed wheel-chair accessibility and kneel mode to get in and out of the truck more easily, you don't need to have a separate button or separate FOB... You can just set your configuration for something like "easy entry/easy exit" to "ON". Then the truck will automatically lower when placed into park everytime. Of course that requires the truck to have air suspension and the U/I to set that configuration. That is an option in the R1T today.

Some of the other most common functions from the App that I use regularly (for reference) are route planning and sending routes from the app to the truck, flipping on heated seats or steering wheel, remotely closing windows that may be open, remotely opening the frunk, tailgate or chargeport, changing the energy limit for charging, turning on AC to cool or warm cabin when hot or cold out, and on occasion I will sometimes check the gear guard videos from my phone if parked in a sketchy zone for any extended period. You can also do things like sound the alarm from the app, request service and update your SW with an OTA.

 

[dreamweaver]

I think some of this could be SM source and when you take delivery (say experience center) they could walk you through those set ups and program it for you before you leave with vehicle. The BMW delivery experience dI’d all that for me years ago. Car was fully set up before I drove away.

Lincoln still does this with every delivery. I would hope all dealers do this.

 

[MrZed411]

Many of the requested functions here can be either built-in to the truck or the app. For example, if you needed wheel-chair accessibility and kneel mode to get in and out of the truck more easily, you don't need to have a separate button or separate FOB... You can just set your configuration for something like "easy entry/easy exit" to "ON". Then the truck will automatically lower when placed into park everytime. Of course that requires the truck to have air suspension and the U/I to set that configuration. That is an option in the R1T today.

Some of the other most common functions from the App that I use regularly (for reference) are route planning and sending routes from the app to the truck, flipping on heated seats or steering wheel, remotely closing windows that may be open, remotely opening the frunk, tailgate or chargeport, changing the energy limit for charging, turning on AC to cool or warm cabin when hot or cold out, and on occasion I will sometimes check the gear guard videos from my phone if parked in a sketchy zone for any extended period. You can also do things like sound the alarm from the app, request service and update your SW with an OTA.

Yes so I think a lot of the features you're talking about are great for the app. But one of my biggest concerns with any app functions is the connectivity requirement.

I currently drive a GM vehicle that has the newer style infotainment system. What this means is that I COULD have those features for my vehicle with the app, but it would cost me a redicoulous amount of money per month for those features, hence I don't buy it. Even if scout were to be similar to Tesla/Rivian and be generous with the initial length of the connectivity, it won't be forever. You're going to have to pay at some point for the app to perform remote tasks. Even tesla only gives 8 years of standard connectivity. This will most likely mean the remote app functions will no longer work after that time. Tesla prices for connectivity are way more reasonable than GM, but it is still an additional cost.

And my whole point is that this could do more than just a single defined thing but be configurable by the user. The button could open the tailgate, turn on the outlets, lower the suspension.. You might not want the vehicle to lower all of the way every single time you get in and out, but enough times that having the ability to hit a quick button would be very useful. And this is true for lots of random actions with the vehicle.

 

[R1TVT]

Yes so I think a lot of the features you're talking about are great for the app. But one of my biggest concerns with any app functions is the connectivity requirement.

I currently drive a GM vehicle that has the newer style infotainment system. What this means is that I COULD have those features for my vehicle with the app, but it would cost me a redicoulous amount of money per month for those features, hence I don't buy it. Even if scout were to be similar to Tesla/Rivian and be generous with the initial length of the connectivity, it won't be forever. You're going to have to pay at some point for the app to perform remote tasks. Even tesla only gives 8 years of standard connectivity. This will most likely mean the remote app functions will no longer work after that time. Tesla prices for connectivity are way more reasonable than GM, but it is still an additional cost.

And my whole point is that this could do more than just a single defined thing but be configurable by the user. The button could open the tailgate, turn on the outlets, lower the suspension.. You might not want the vehicle to lower all of the way every single time you get in and out, but enough times that having the ability to hit a quick button would be very useful. And this is true for lots of random actions with the vehicle.

There is no requirement (at least in the case of Rivian) to "pay for the app" to access features and functions.

They eventually implemented an annual fee ($149 / year) for connectivity (that they call Connect +) that includes a hot spot and other features like streaming and data access. It has nothing to do with settings or common functions in the vehicle and you don't need to pay for it to use things like Kneel Mode or Open Frunk. Those features are all standard, as is the app.

Connect+ brings media, connectivity and live security to your Rivian with features like:

• In-vehicle hotspot
• Satellite Images
• Alexa Connected commands
• Priority software updates
• Data to access music streaming apps like Apple Music, Audible, Spotify, Tidal and TuneIn
• Gear Guard Live Cam
• Google Cast and YouTube

 

[MrZed411]

There is no requirement (at least in the case of Rivian) to "pay for the app" to access features and functions.

They eventually implemented an annual fee ($149 / year) for connectivity (that they call Connect +) that includes a hot spot and other features like streaming and data access. It has nothing to do with settings or common functions in the vehicle and you don't need to pay for it to use things like Kneel Mode or Open Frunk. Those features are all standard, as is the app.

Connect+ brings media, connectivity and live security to your Rivian with features like:

• In-vehicle hotspot
• Satellite Images
• Alexa Connected commands
• Priority software updates
• Data to access music streaming apps like Apple Music, Audible, Spotify, Tidal and TuneIn
• Gear Guard Live Cam
• Google Cast and YouTube

You are correct that RIGHT NOW Rivian does not have a timeline/pricing for when the standard connectivity will end. Tesla was also this way before making a change to their connectivity agreement so that new vehicles (starting back in around 2022) had 8 years of standard connectivity that came with the vehicle. No one really knows yet what this means in terms of will the app stop receiving the functionality you are discussing or not as the first vehicles this will happen to will have it occur in 2030.

So if Rivian were to follow in the footsteps of Tesla in regards to this issue (which they should, data is not free and endless connectivity is a large burden after that many vehicles for that long) then there will be a point that this functionality will also stop working without paying a subscription for it. Even if that subscription were less than the connect+, it is still a subscription.

 

[R1TVT]

You are correct that RIGHT NOW Rivian does not have a timeline/pricing for when the standard connectivity will end. Tesla was also this way before making a change to their connectivity agreement so that new vehicles (starting back in around 2022) had 8 years of standard connectivity that came with the vehicle. No one really knows yet what this means in terms of will the app stop receiving the functionality you are discussing or not as the first vehicles this will happen to will have it occur in 2030.

So if Rivian were to follow in the footsteps of Tesla in regards to this issue (which they should, data is not free and endless connectivity is a large burden after that many vehicles for that long) then there will be a point that this functionality will also stop working without paying a subscription for it. Even if that subscription were less than the connect+, it is still a subscription.

I'm completely lost. That is in fact what Rivian already did. They started charging for data and connectivity (rightfully so, since they incur a cost for WiFi). What they aren't doing (and what most manufacturers that I'm familiar with DON'T do), is charge for basic functionality or settings.

I will gladly pay $149 bucks a year for a HotSpot + Streaming in my truck. How much does a mobile hotspot cost from Verizon or ATT? $12 bucks a month is a small price to pay for that convenience IMHO, but I also work from my truck from time to time, and often have passengers that hop on the HotSpot.

 

[cyure]

I'm completely lost. That is in fact what Rivian already did. They started charging for data and connectivity (rightfully so, since they incur a cost for WiFi). What they aren't doing (and what most manufacturers that I'm familiar with DON'T do), is charge for basic functionality or settings.

I will gladly pay $149 bucks a year for a HotSpot + Streaming in my truck. How much does a mobile hotspot cost from Verizon or ATT? $12 bucks a month is a small price to pay for that convenience IMHO, but I also work from my truck from time to time, and often have passengers that hop on the HotSpot.

Is that all a Rivian costs a month is $12 or are there different levels where you get more the more you pay?

 

[MrZed411]

I'm completely lost. That is in fact what Rivian already did. They started charging for data and connectivity (rightfully so, since they incur a cost for WiFi). What they aren't doing (and what most manufacturers that I'm familiar with DON'T do), is charge for basic functionality or settings.

I will gladly pay $149 bucks a year for a HotSpot + Streaming in my truck. How much does a mobile hotspot cost from Verizon or ATT? $12 bucks a month is a small price to pay for that convenience IMHO, but I also work from my truck from time to time, and often have passengers that hop on the HotSpot.

Yes, so I think there is some confusion about definitions here. Let me clarify them.

Connectivity when it comes to vehicles does not just mean Wi-Fi. It means any internet access at all that the vehicle performs.

So when you use the app to unlock your R1T remotely, that is using the vehicles connectivity, using data through cellular for the truck to unlock.

This functionality would be under the "Standard Connectivity" plan for Tesla and, based on the wording, for Rivian as well. Then you have additional connectivity options, like Wi-Fi Hotspot/app streaming that fit under the "premium connectivity" plan (Connect+ for Rivian).

Actually it is EXTREMELY common for car manufacturers to charge for the feature to use your phone to remotely preform actions with your car. GM requires an on star plan "Remote Access" for $15 a month which is only for this remote app functionality. Subura has starlink which the remote app function requires a cost of $15 a month to access (with additional features)..

Rivian and tesla are different not only because they are EVs, but because they are newer companies AND the data the cars generate can be used to train AI, reducing costs to get that data. At some point they will consider it not worth it and change the plans to require playing for the "Standard Connectivity" like Tesla already has back in 2022.

So, where this applies is when you say

There is no requirement (at least in the case of Rivian) to "pay for the app" to access features and functions.

That is true right now. But, in the future it is plausible that Rivian changes it to be like Tesla, where the app will require at least a standard connectivity plan which will come for free for a while with new vehicles, and then the function to use the app to control the vehicle remotely no longer functions without paying a subscription for it.

And when it comes to the price, the price can be good now, but the problem with subscription services is they can just decide to increase the price. You don't know when the premium connectivity price for your rivian could increase.

Bringing it back to this feature that I proposed, it is beneficial specifically because it doesn't require an app or a subscription or any additional items, just the vehicle. By reducing the app requirement it is an actual selling point for the vehicle (accessibility, convenience, user choice, etc).

 

[R1TVT]

Is that all a Rivian costs a month is $12 or are there different levels where you get more the more you pay?

Correct. And you don't have to pay anything if you don't want Connect+. With the HotSpot and other Connect+ features I listed above, its $149 / Year. I used to carry around a WiFi puck and had a separate subscription for WiFi, now I just use the truck and can use my iPhone as a HotSpot too.

People will complain about subscription plans, but why anyone would expect a company to give away services that are actual cost centers for the business doesn't make any sense (logically or financially). If you don't want the features, you don't need to pay for them.

To be clear, and as far as accessibility goes, I'm all for it.

My only point was that you may not actually need more buttons. in my case, and without Connect+, my physical key still allows me to open a frunk, or open a tailgate... And without Connect+, I can set the truck to kneel automatically each time I park so it is easier to get in or out (without having to do anything at all). Personally, I choose not to use that feature, but the truck can do it without any additional buttons, fees, or subscription services. I guess if companies are nickel and diming customers for standard features so much, I would vote with my money and not buy those vehicles, because it seems like there is no equivalency, no value-exchange. My only argument is that there is equivalency and solid value exchange for the subscription fee in the case of Connect+ compared to paying for a HotSpot / WiFi.

I use this as an example since Scout may be able to leverage some of the SW through the Rivian partnership, so I would expect something similar with Scout. I would be very surprised is Scout was the type of company that was nickel and diming you for basic features. I would not be surprised if they eventually offered a package that included a HotSpot for the vehicle and other valuable features that might be considered more "premium" and passed some of those costs to customers electing to use them or subscribe to them. Just my 02 cents!