A Tall Order

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

Are you guys early enough in the process to still be deciding on ICE, EV, or both offerings? Or has the decision already been made for EV only? And if EV only - is hybrid considered, or strictly battery only?

If EV only - I understand on the 2 door dilemma of battery pack placement and size vs range. Thats where a hybrid would work great, if you are even considering that as an option.

I have to stick with my advice to offer both 2 door and 4 door regardless of how you work out battery pack size and placement, wheelbase, platform, etc. Unless it would make the 2 door so awkward looking that no one would buy it lol.

Some really good early renderings would be great.

Things that have been publicly stated thus far:

1. Built in the U.S.
2. BEV only
3. Unique EV platform for this type of vehicle (won't be rebadged or based on existing VW ID platform for example).
4. Initial models will be a Scout II-like SUV vehicle and a pickup truck.

We are working on an FAQ to sticky in the forums, but at the moment there are probably more questions than answers.

 

[61scout80]

If I were to try to consolidate all the suggestions and ideas I've seen here to this point, the main theme would be: "Make the new Scout like our old beloved Scout." While this is indicative of a true love and passion for the classic Scout, it is of course impossible, impractical, and not marketable.

Folks, I hate to break it to you, but there is no way VW is going to make an extreme rock crawler with 2 doors and removable top. While that might be what you and I want, it would never sell in the numbers required to pay for the effort. I am sure VW will do their best to appeal to off-road enthusiasts, but we are not their primary customer.

A vehicle which truly does justice to the name seems unlikely. Such a vehicle would have to be simple, rugged, and utilitarian. These are not qualities in demand in today's marketplace. Today's buyer demands an interior bristling with electronic do-dads, power assists, and heated everything. The motor will have to put out the equivalent of 400 BHP, because how could you possibly be expected to drive a vehicle with less? I'm sure the body will be fine, but if there is a question of breakover angle vs. cargo space specs. which one do you think will win?

The other thing which I personally see as a challenge is warming up to a foreign company brand for such a quintessential American nostalgic name. For me the VW name will always be associated with Hitler and funding for his war effort. More recent history are the scandals such as the diesel emissions cheating. For me, the VW brand is just not a positive image, although I know I am in the minority here.

It is interesting to follow the process as it unfolds. I do appreciate the apparent effort that VW is taking to inform and involve the community, and I have my hopes up that this revival will be different than some recent competitors offerings. I just realise there is a market reality that does not align with most classic Scout enthusiast's desires.

I'd have no faith in VWAG doing this right if it weren't for the recent success of Ford's Bronco. It's proven that you can have a capable off-roader with a removable top and doors that is also civilized enough for the average consumer who will never put it in 4wd.
VWAG holds a lot of premium brands that aren't interested in pleasing the masses. Porsche, Lamborghini, Ducati, Cupra (who is also developing an electric off roader), and to some extent Audi. MAN trucks has a pretty robust off road racing and reliability heritage too. VWAG is no stranger to niche markets and does them quite well.

As far as demand, around here there are tons of jeeps and broncos on the road. We're often approached by strangers who are considering one. The jeep is the only holdout of a rugged offroader left, and unfortunately, I think that's going to change because of the bronco's civil side.
Most people who can afford the price tag of a wrangler aren't the type that will tolerate the character of a wrangler. The noise, steering, suspension, and getting wet in a car wash aren't exactly what the average commuter expect from a $50,000+ SUV. I LOVE wranglers, but lets be honest. They don't really do anything on road exceptionally well. Even with the quirks and shortages they still managed to sell over 204,000 Wranglers in 2021.

The Bronco is really nice. Feels like an entirely different class of vehicle when you sit in it. I do not think it's as capable as a wrangler right off the dealer's lot, nor do I think that matters to many buyers. What they do like is a reasonably comfortable vehicle on road that they can take off road, with a removable top.

I really think the removable top is make-or-break for the Scout. If they announced right now that they would have a removable roof and pre-orders are open I'd put a deposit on one today. If they say it has a big sunroof I'm waiting to see how watered down the rest of the vehicle is before committing to buying one. I'm really optimistic the VWAG won't let us down, it's one of the few auto brands that have the courage to try. If this was another brand, like GM, I'd have no faith that they would do it right. VW seems to accept success with a little of everything whereas many brands just want to move volume.

 

[binderbeast]

I agree that it is a tall order... consumer expectations, safety regs, etc, etc. I get that we probably won't get a fully removable top, but I will be very disappointed if there is not a proper short-wheelbase 2-door. THAT is what a Scout is {period, full stop}

 

[Eswanson]

I wonder if some unconventional thinking might be. I assume that it’s the EV only option as I look at my scout 800 I have personally moved my fuel tank to the rear between the frame rails that leaves positions open where the old tanks were. If we took that into consideration for the placement of batteries, it would be a great space to utilize. I know this is speaking about a retrofit. But applying the same kind of conceptual, understanding to the space, and use of the scout in the initial rendering may help a two door become more viable with range options.

 

[ColeAK]

I see both sides. But, there is already an example. That’s why there is a Jeep Sahara and Rubicon (and many more). Get the basics done right and trim it out to suit the customer needs. I live on the coast and will likely never see any rock crawling. But I do like ground clearance and versatility. I just hope for the best rust proofing ever and air suspension.

Air suspension sucks off road. When it raises up it increases the spring rate and you lose articulation…. I off road with a guy that has a grand Cherokee trailhawk, he never puts in in high as when he does it run into a 3 wheeled pogo stick. Many people pull the air on grand Cherokee trailhawks for kings+springs.

Of all the brands that do top level off roaders and have vehicles with air (Jeep, Toyota, Mercedes, rover) none put air on their best off roaders (wrangler, Landcruiser, g wagon, defender (not the unibody one)).

If they want variable height please look at hydraulic with steel springs like the Toyota does in the Landcruiser/LX and oshkosh in the JLTV. Much more robust than air springs without the limitations of spring rate.

 

[LastDayScout]

Air suspension sucks off road. When it raises up it increases the spring rate and you lose articulation…. I off road with a guy that has a grand Cherokee trailhawk, he never puts in in high as when he does it run into a 3 wheeled pogo stick. Many people pull the air on grand Cherokee trailhawks for kings+springs.

Of all the brands that do top level off roaders and have vehicles with air (Jeep, Toyota, Mercedes, rover) none put air on their best off roaders (wrangler, Landcruiser, g wagon, defender (not the unibody one)).

If they want variable height please look at hydraulic with steel springs like the Toyota does in the Landcruiser/LX and oshkosh in the JLTV. Much more robust than air springs without the limitations of spring rate.

I understand all of that. I don’t off-road. But the roads suck where I am and it floods often. I love the air suspension in my 2014 Grand Cherokee and my wife’s X5 has air suspension. No issues with either. It rides great, and the height adjustment works for our needs. That said, I would be fine with a hydraulically adjustable suspension.

 

[ColeAK]

I understand all of that. I don’t off-road. But the roads suck where I am and it floods often. I love the air suspension in my 2014 Grand Cherokee and my wife’s X5 has air suspension. No issues with either. It rides great, and the height adjustment works for our needs. That said, I would be fine with a hydraulically adjustable suspension.

Don’t off road but looking at a scout…. There are and will be way better options for road vehicles.

 

[LastDayScout]

Don’t off road but looking at a scout…. There are and will be way better options for road vehicles.

You’ll find this is a pretty diverse group. I live in a coastal community and am looking to a coastal vehicle for the beach, kayaks, etc. had a scout and miss it. Looking forward to what’s to come.

 

[ColeAK]

You’ll find this is a pretty diverse group. I live in a coastal community and am looking to a coastal vehicle for the beach, kayaks, etc. had a scout and miss it. Looking forward to what’s to come.

I would consider driving on the beach off roading. Where we subsistence fish salmon it is a ~6 mile drive over the beach, cross the dunes and glacial sand from there, it is not easy off roading.

 

[binderbeast]

You’ll find this is a pretty diverse group. I live in a coastal community and am looking to a coastal vehicle for the beach, kayaks, etc. had a scout and miss it. Looking forward to what’s to come.

Yes, we are a diverse group. I am glad this site was created to find out what we, Scout owners and/or lovers, can toss our suggestions into the box. The engineers/designers/etc. have their hands full. There is no way they will please everyone, but they have to find a happy median. They are also up against financial constraints that will necessitate compromises. So, I am waiting impatiently to see how well they pull off that balancing act. My biggest hope is that whatever they end up producing has a bare-bones version that I might be able to afford.

 

[Cory Smith]

If EV only - I understand on the 2 door dilemma of battery pack placement and size vs range. Thats where a hybrid would work great, if you are even considering that as an option.

I have to stick with my advice to offer both 2 door and 4 door regardless of how you work out battery pack size and placement, wheelbase, platform, etc. Unless it would make the 2 door so awkward looking that no one would buy it lol.

Some really good early renderings would be great.

@Jamie@ScoutMotors @Chris@ScoutMotors

To be blunt, they need to figure out how to build a two door suv. All they have done is bought the scout name with the intention of sticking it on a vehicle that has nothing to do with the original. The bronco and the wrangler have certainly evolved and the four door models are unarguably successful but Ford and Chrysler have still chosen to honor these vehicles’ heritages by offering rugged short wheel base two-door models…and they sell too. Please don’t tarnish the scout name by applying it solely to a Rivian knockoff with angled quarter glass. It deserves better than that. Remember, anything less is just a car.

 

[Rustic_father]

@Jamie@ScoutMotors @Chris@ScoutMotors

To be blunt, they need to figure out how to build a two door suv. All they have done is bought the scout name with the intention of sticking it on a vehicle that has nothing to do with the original. The bronco and the wrangler have certainly evolved and the four door models are unarguably successful but Ford and Chrysler have still chosen to honor these vehicles’ heritages by offering rugged short wheel base two-door models…and they sell too. Please don’t tarnish the scout name by applying it solely to a Rivian knockoff with angled quarter glass. It deserves better than that. Remember, anything less is just a car.

From a cost/strategy perspective if there is enough demand for the 2 door variant then they might release it further down the line. However when you look at rough demand more people want a 4door suv. So for a new company it makes sense to prioritize what people will buy to repay the investments....but if the brand achieves success there would be a real chance that they would eventually develop a 2door version.

It will be hard to call anything a Rivian knock off just because it will be an electric off road SUV. that would be like saying every off road SUV is a jeep knock off. the vehicles will attract different customers....i Rivian attracts more of the "LL Bean" crowd, while i think the Scout is aiming more for the "Bass pro shop" style of customer.

 

[J Alynn]

From a cost/strategy perspective if there is enough demand for the 2 door variant then they might release it further down the line. However when you look at rough demand more people want a 4door suv. So for a new company it makes sense to prioritize what people will buy to repay the investments....but if the brand achieves success there would be a real chance that they would eventually develop a 2door version.

It will be hard to call anything a Rivian knock off just because it will be an electric off road SUV. that would be like saying every off road SUV is a jeep knock off. the vehicles will attract different customers....i Rivian attracts more of the "LL Bean" crowd, while i think the Scout is aiming more for the "Bass pro shop" style of customer.

Where does the REI crowd fall in this chart ?

 

[ColeAK]

Where does the REI crowd fall in this chart ?

EV Subaru?

 

[J Alynn]

EV Subaru?

LMAO.

 

[Eswanson]

From a cost/strategy perspective if there is enough demand for the 2 door variant then they might release it further down the line. However when you look at rough demand more people want a 4door suv. So for a new company it makes sense to prioritize what people will buy to repay the investments....but if the brand achieves success there would be a real chance that they would eventually develop a 2door version.

It will be hard to call anything a Rivian knock off just because it will be an electric off road SUV. that would be like saying every off road SUV is a jeep knock off. the vehicles will attract different customers....i Rivian attracts more of the "LL Bean" crowd, while i think the Scout is aiming more for the "Bass pro shop" style of customer.

Rustic_father, I don't know that they will be going after the LL Bean or Bass Pro crowds. Honestly, look at New Legend 4x4's and most of the other Resto-mod shops. Yeah, their best content comes from rugged originals but they sell $100-200+K vehicles. We may be looking at the Filson, Iron & Resin, and higher up crowds. Not sure yet.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

Rustic_father, I don't know that they will be going after the LL Bean or Bass Pro crowds. Honestly, look at New Legend 4x4's and most of the other Resto-mod shops. Yeah, their best content comes from rugged originals but they sell $100-200+K vehicles. We may be looking at the Filson, Iron & Resin, and higher up crowds. Not sure yet.

To better qualify this, we have publicly said that we are shooting for an "affordable" price point. Now, with the average new car transaction price around $41k these days, I don't know what's affordable anymore (I'm getting old!). In addition, we have no idea right now what the next two years will bring. That said, we are trying to offer a range of products that spread across the LL Bean, North Face, and REI price points with details that you might find in a Filson, Orvis or Simms product. That's the magic area we should shoot for.

The nature of the SUVs and pickup truck market segments means that there is usually a wide spread of base model and upper trim level offerings and price points that match. Everyone here at Scout is on the same page with this and it's encouraging to see the extreme attention to detail.

 

[Eswanson]

@Jamie@ScoutMotors - Thanks. I know you all have committed to an affordable base and I really love that! I also know that you all have to pay the bills. I think having the ability to expand like you said. Who knows what 2 years will bring, but I really hope it will be awesome. FYI, I have an 07 FJ Cruiser and right now I'm waiting on you guys to finish up for my replacement, so make it great. Also, the Filson nod, look at what New Legend does with the waxed canvas for seating & doors and you may have a very happy camper.

 

[Rustic_father]

Where does the REI crowd fall in this chart ?

I think REI is somewhere in the middle.

Rustic_father, I don't know that they will be going after the LL Bean or Bass Pro crowds. Honestly, look at New Legend 4x4's and most of the other Resto-mod shops. Yeah, their best content comes from rugged originals but they sell $100-200+K vehicles. We may be looking at the Filson, Iron & Resin, and higher up crowds. Not sure yet.

I'm not saying that it is literally LL Bean or bass pro shop....but when you look at marketing style rivian has much of the LL Bean catalog in their marketing events...

..and going to the spirit of the original scout it was marketed as the vehicle that you would use to go around your ranch or expansive property....this would translate similarly to bass pro shop style of outdoorsmanship. Additionally as stated they are shooting for more affordable around the 41k mark...

 

[B435M4N]

I've seen this several times, what's the appeal of air suspension?

The real appeal of air suspension is the ability to control ride height from the driver's seat. I had a Land Rover LR3 HSE with air suspension and e-lockers -- it was well sorted. I had a '17 Q7 Premium Plus with coil springs and thought I'd really like the air suspension. Traded up for a '18 Q7 Prestige and hate the air suspension -- it doesn't ride as well as the PP with coils, and using the adjustable ride height to aid ingress/egress or to get over obstacles is a hassle. Love the '18 in so many other ways, but I will downgrade the suspension if it ever fails because it doesn't live up to the promise.