Test drove a couple Wranglers today…

[cyure]

Hi peeps! The Jeep needed an oil change today so I figured do a little reconnaissance while I’m waiting. I called sales on Saturday. Said I’m coming in Tuesday at 10. I would like to drive a Wrangler with a one touch sky roof (closest thing to a cabana roof out there that I can think of) and I would like to drive a 4xe as I have never driven an electric hybrid. (I know it’s not an EREV but again it’s an electric hybrid and it will give me kind of the idea). Also wanted to get in a Wrangler with 35s to see how much different it is climbing into it. I currently have 33s on my Wrangler.

I specifically said I want to try the 4xe in all three modes. Gas only, EV only and hybrid mode where it decides.

They said sure, we will put you with Don. He’s very experienced and we will make sure he has the vehicles ready to go and the 4xe will be charged to 100% and he will meet you in service.

Welp, I’m sure you can all guess that things did not go as they said.

Got to service. No Don waiting for me with a vehicle ready to go. Had to go find Don. He asked what I was looking for. Told him exactly what I have in text messages with the manager who said Don would be ready for me. He then had to go to his computer to look up and see if they had what I was looking for.

He found a new Wrangler with 33s with the sky roof. A Rubicon with 35s. One used 4xe. Sure, great let’s go drive. Go out to the 4xe and he checks the battery. Completely dead. Of course.

I said okay let’s test drive the Wrangler with the roof and you can charge the 4xe. Great, off he goes to plug it in.

I then get in the Wrangler with the 33s with the Sky one touch roof. It’s almost empty. Has 17 miles left in the tank. At this point, whatever, let’s just drive it. So I drove out about 5 miles with the roof closed and 5 miles back with the roof open. The roof is black. It was quiet in the cabin while closed. Quieter than I thought it would be. I have something called a ClearLidz on my Wrangler. So a plexiglass roof above the driver and passenger seat and I love that open feeling. I wanted to drive with the roof open to see if I prefer that. Nope. It’s too dark inside with the roof closed. I’m driving in a cave and with it open my hair is blowing around and I don’t like it. So I’m solid in my glass roof decision. Check done.

Next, got into a Rubicon with rock sliders and 35s. No step. It did have a grab handle on the A pillar. It’s doable but it’s definitely more of a hike your hip up and pull yourself in. I really want to see a Traveler on 33s with an 18 inch wheel. If it looks as good as I think it’s going to, as much as I want 35s, for range saving, cost savings on new tires and ease of entry I may stick with 33s like I have now.

So then we go to the 4xe that’s been charging for about 15 to 20 minutes by now. It’s at 16% or 4 miles!! With that low of a range it won’t let you put it in EV only. He said it would have to get to 25 to 30% before it would allow EV only. I didn’t want to wait that long so I said let’s just drive it. In hybrid mode that car will flip back and forth. Below 30 mph and at lower rpm it will stay EV. Then at over 30
And higher rpm gas. It was a smooth transition. I couldn’t tell when it was switching back and forth. It was a very smooth transition. The EV was very quiet. You could definitely hear the tire noise more than you can in an ICE vehicle. It does have some regen braking and I could feel that. It felt like our Supra in sport mode when it’s slowing itself down. In our 15 minute test drive it used 2 miles of EV range. I did put it in all gas mode and you have that normal engine noise I am used to.

All this to say I’m glad I’m not getting a Wrangler. Love mine but don’t want a new one. No point. It’s not an upgrade to me. It’s just slightly better than what I have. There is no way I would buy a 4xe. It makes no sense. He said in perfect weather you are 60 to 70 miles of EV range and it takes all night to charge on Lv2. And the total range was under 300 miles because the gas tank is smaller to fit the battery. I get more range than that in my ICE Wrangler with an 18 gallon tank.

So I have made some more decisions and am still thinking about others.

1. Definitely glass roof. I love that thing.

2. Still unsure about 35s. 33 is probably where I will end up. I just really want to see one on 33s.

3. Most importantly. I even more am leaning towards a BEV. If I’m already plugging in and charging and for 90% of my trips the range is more than sufficient for around town, why do I need the Harvester? At this point, if I had to pick today BEV is where I would go.

I will post some pictures below.

 

[cyure]

Wrangler sky roof closed

 

[cyure]

Wrangler sky roof open

 

[cyure]

Wrangler with 37s

 

[cyure]

Wrangler with 33s top picture
Wrangler with 35s bottom picture

 

[cyure]

Wrangler with 33s

 

[strider]

Thanks for the write-up! I think the 33s look great and I agree, I don't think it's worth the range penalty for 35s. I'm also glad to hear that the "cabana" roof was pretty quiet (though you are a Wrangler driver so your definition of quiet may be different than other people . I'm leaning glass roof myself as when I've had sunroofs I barely opened them. I did take the roof off my Wrangler TJ for a few months at a time. I'll keep thinking about it.

It sounds like the 4xe drive went ok - glad to hear that it transitions smoothly and would have been nice if it was fully charged. As I said in another thread, my 12 year old really wants a Wrangler in 4 years. Hopefully they get their crap together by then.

 

[J Alynn]

Wrangler sky roof open

View attachment 9534View attachment 9535View attachment 9536

Two comments/questions.
Did you tell Don you are buying a Scout?
And secondly, like my convertible in 2012, if temps are over 55 degrees the top is open so unless raining or snowing (which I always did an open top drive first snow of the winter-very fun if you’ve never done it) I will have a bright cabin and on rainy days it’s dark anyway so I think with a lighter ceiling color the cabana may be my jam!

 

[cyure]

Two comments/questions.
Did you tell Don you are buying a Scout?
And secondly, like my convertible in 2012, if temps are over 55 degrees the top is open so unless raining or snowing (which I always did an open top drive first snow of the winter-very fun if you’ve never done it) I will have a bright cabin and on rainy days it’s dark anyway so I think with a lighter ceiling color the cabana may be my jam!

I did not tell Don or the manager I spoke with on Saturday that I was buying a Scout.

My husband had top down in rain and snow in his convertibles. If he could keep the speed up enough that the rain or snow was horizontal, he just out the heat on and wore a jacket and had the top down. Didn’t matter how cold.

I love seeing the sun on a cold day through my ClearLidz. Or the rain or snow even. And it’s not so weather tight on the sides above the doors so if the wind is blowing right you get rain and snow blowing in and I don’t care. I love that roof.

This is a ClearLidz.

 

[Logan]

All this to say I’m glad I’m not getting a Wrangler. Love mine but don’t want a new one. No point. It’s not an upgrade to me. It’s just slightly better than what I have. There is no way I would buy a 4xe. It makes no sense. He said in perfect weather you are 60 to 70 miles of EV range and it takes all night to charge on Lv2. And the total range was under 300 miles because the gas tank is smaller to fit the battery. I get more range than that in my ICE Wrangler with an 18 gallon tank.

So I have made some more decisions and am still thinking about others.

1. Definitely glass roof. I love that thing.

2. Still unsure about 35s. 33 is probably where I will end up. I just really want to see one on 33s.

3. Most importantly. I even more am leaning towards a BEV. If I’m already plugging in and charging and for 90% of my trips the range is more than sufficient for around town, why do I need the Harvester? At this point, if I had to pick today BEV is where I would go.

Speaking directly to this bolded part, because its one I have some sort of experience with.

And being polite as possible, I'll say that my perception is that this guy had no idea what he was talking about, at all (or some wires got crossed in translation, or I'm understanding it wrong).

The Wrangler 4xe is rated at 21 miles of EPA range, and it has a 17.3 KWh battery pack (this is wildly inefficient, but thats besides the point atm. But worth noting the Scout should get about double the efficiency).

Unless they were saying that in hybrid mode, you'd get 60-70 miles before you ran the battery to empty (which I'm doubtful about based on my PHEV), I don't know what they were trying to communicate, or if they were accidentally misleading you.

Level 1 charging would take all night. Level 2 charging would take ~2-3 hours, depending on the speed of the L2 charger you used.

About the Scout. I'd absolutely love to see it on 33's, with 18in rims. Like you, thats likely where I'd be going with mine. I'm sure we'll see it at some point. And I'm still split on the harvester vs the BEV. I have in my garage a full EV now (Ioniq 9), a 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee (4.0L straight six, 3in lift on 31's), and a PHEV. So I've got the full array (other than an EREV I guess ). I think it would really depend on how much towing you're expecting to do, and/or how long of road trips you're expecting to go on/how frequent those are. Because shorter road trips of only 400-600 miles in a day... thats only going to be ~1-2 stops in a BEV, which isn't going to be "that" much longer of a trip duration than a harvester.

But if you do the 700-1000 miles a day sort of trips, you'll see the difference I'd wager.

 

[cyure]

Speaking directly to this bolded part, because its one I have some sort of experience with.

And being polite as possible, I'll say that my perception is that this guy had no idea what he was talking about, at all (or some wires got crossed in translation, or I'm understanding it wrong).

The Wrangler 4xe is rated at 21 miles of EPA range, and it has a 17.3 KWh battery pack (this is wildly inefficient, but thats besides the point atm. But worth noting the Scout should get about double the efficiency).

Unless they were saying that in hybrid mode, you'd get 60-70 miles before you ran the battery to empty (which I'm doubtful about based on my PHEV), I don't know what they were trying to communicate, or if they were accidentally misleading you.

Level 1 charging would take all night. Level 2 charging would take ~2-3 hours, depending on the speed of the L2 charger you used.

About the Scout. I'd absolutely love to see it on 33's, with 18in rims. Like you, thats likely where I'd be going with mine. I'm sure we'll see it at some point. And I'm still split on the harvester vs the BEV. I have in my garage a full EV now (Ioniq 9), a 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee (4.0L straight six, 3in lift on 31's), and a PHEV. So I've got the full array (other than an EREV I guess ). I think it would really depend on how much towing you're expecting to do, and/or how long of road trips you're expecting to go on/how frequent those are. Because shorter road trips of only 400-600 miles in a day... thats only going to be ~1-2 stops in a BEV, which isn't going to be "that" much longer of a trip duration than a harvester.

But if you do the 700-1000 miles a day sort of trips, you'll see the difference I'd wager.

Thank you! I felt like a crazy person. None of his numbers were making sense. What you are saying was what I thought was correct. Don didn’t know as much as he claimed to.

As for my use, we don’t tow at all. I work from home. We go to Chicago fairly frequently in good weather. If it’s snowing/bad rain we don’t go. So those trips are anywhere from 200 to 260 miles round trip depending on where exactly we go.

We have done short road trips to Indianapolis and St. Louis and Ohio places like that.

Since living here we have done a really long road trip but we took the Supra. My husband likes to take that car on long trips when we can. We went to California and back. 4400 miles in a week. We were flying! The last day we left NM at 3 in the morning and rolled into our driveway in Illinois at 11 at night. Now that was way too long a day.

Thanks again. I think they look at a woman and think I don’t know what I’m talking about. I didn’t argue with him because I wasn’t buying it anyway.

 

[Logan]

Thank you! I felt like a crazy person. None of his numbers were making sense. What you are saying was what I thought was correct. Don didn’t know as much as he claimed to.

As for my use, we don’t tow at all. I work from home. We go to Chicago fairly frequently in good weather. If it’s snowing/bad rain we don’t go. So those trips are anywhere from 200 to 260 miles round trip depending on where exactly we go.

We have done short road trips to Indianapolis and St. Louis and Ohio places like that.

Since living here we have done a really long road trip but we took the Supra. My husband likes to take that car on long trips when we can. We went to California and back. 4400 miles in a week. We were flying! The last day we left NM at 3 in the morning and rolled into our driveway in Illinois at 11 at night. Now that was way too long a day.

Thanks again. I think they look at a woman and think I don’t know what I’m talking about. I didn’t argue with him because I wasn’t buying it anyway.

*sigh

Thats disappointing, and annoying. Sorry. But rest easier knowing that you were in the right there.

Partially because I'm a research-oholic, I tend to go into dealerships knowing more about the vehicle than the people selling them, and my expectations are generally low. But even then, they manage to surprise me with what they don't understand, or know. And I'm also generally surprised how willing they are to just spout incorrect information, rather than saying something like "Oh, not sure on that one, let me check".

In August I was in a dealer looking Kia EV9's (what first got us looking), and the salesman didn't even know what the federal tax credit was...

TBH, with this last purchase, I was at more dealerships than I've been to in... years. I have a friend who works for Hyundai Corporate, and was able to get the Hyundai regional sales manager to talk with us to the dealerships to help us get the "white glove treatment". And even with that, the experience has been sub-par.

And yeah, there is a point where i say things, and check their response, and i just don't bother correcting them, as its not worth it.

Also, the 4xe Jeeps have been the best selling PHEV's in the nation for a while. But man, their efficiency is horrible, AND the range isn't very large. They get 21 miles out of 17kwh (although I just saw that maybe their useable battery is only 15kwh, which helps some).

In comparison my my Tucson does 33 miles on 13kwh. Heck, even the Hummer Ev is more efficient, despite weighing 4000lbs more, and riding on 37's.

 

[cyure]

*sigh

Thats disappointing, and annoying. Sorry. But rest easier knowing that you were in the right there.

Partially because I'm a research-oholic, I tend to go into dealerships knowing more about the vehicle than the people selling them, and my expectations are generally low. But even then, they manage to surprise me with what they don't understand, or know. And I'm also generally surprised how willing they are to just spout incorrect information, rather than saying something like "Oh, not sure on that one, let me check".

In August I was in a dealer looking Kia EV9's (what first got us looking), and the salesman didn't even know what the federal tax credit was...

TBH, with this last purchase, I was at more dealerships than I've been to in... years. I have a friend who works for Hyundai Corporate, and was able to get the Hyundai regional sales manager to talk with us to the dealerships to help us get the "white glove treatment". And even with that, the experience has been sub-par.

And yeah, there is a point where i say things, and check their response, and i just don't bother correcting them, as its not worth it.

Also, the 4xe Jeeps have been the best selling PHEV's in the nation for a while. But man, their efficiency is horrible, AND the range isn't very large. They get 21 miles out of 17kwh (although I just saw that maybe their useable battery is only 15kwh, which helps some).

In comparison my my Tucson does 33 miles on 13kwh. Heck, even the Hummer Ev is more efficient, despite weighing 4000lbs more, and riding on 37's.

I had talked to a woman in a parking lot who owned one. I knew the range sucked because she was charging it 3 times a day to only use the battery daily. I specifically said to him, The range is like 24 miles, because being 16% charged and only having 4 miles of range doesn’t equate to the 60 miles he was telling me. I tease about not being good at math, but that kind of math I’m good at figuring out quick and I knew he was wrong. I just didn’t care enough to argue.

I mainly wanted to try a vehicle in all 3 modes gas, electric and hybrid, which I didn’t get to do.

Typically I know more than the sales people. Once I decide on a vehicle I research the heck out of it. Thus why I am on this forum.

With my usage I really think the BEV will work and I’m so done with oil changes, etc, etc. I’m honestly still glad we have more time before we get to place our orders. It takes me forever to research and make a decision.

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

So it sounds like another dismal experience by a car salesperson. I’d like to say I’m shocked….

One of the very few reasons I drive a Ram is because the service department at my local dealer has been amazing. There’s a reason I haven’t bought a product from the local Ram dealership since 2004 - the sales department puts the “steal” in stealership (they are so greasy).

I’m still very much in the 35” tire camp with the Harvester setup. I have a Traveler reserved, but the Terra truck on 37’s is tempting.