Regenerative Braking and Flat towing, "four-down towing" or "dinghy towing."

[Wanderlust]

Hello all, as a current owner of the VW ID.4 and a Luxury Motorcoach the idea of towing any EV is currently limited to trailering with the exception of one EV manufacturer, Rivian. Purchasing my first EV came with many questions and reservations, that was 11mo ago, today I am extremely pleased with my 60,000 mile VW ID.4. I drive my EV a lot and I drive with regenerative braking 100% of the time, the Coach utilizes engine braking to save the brake pads, the EV utilizes regenerative braking to recharge the battery and save the brake pads. I can see the day where one would be able to flat tow a EV input the distance of your total trip and as you brake the tow vehicle the EV activates regenerative braking slowing down the tow vehicle and the EV much like the engine brake of today but with one big difference no “waste of moving energy“ you harness the energy as you do with regenerative braking so on short trips the on board systems use more regenerative braking and long-distance trips use less regenerative braking but always giving your EV a full charge at the completion of any trip regardless of the total miles of the destination. All the current talk of using a EV to power a home during a power outage this would be the next logical step. All the needed components are already in place on every current EV the only thing missing is the software to optimize the components merging the EV with the tow vehicle. If the new Scout had this flat-tow recharge capability it would start a cult-like movement much like the loved VW Van. All “Van life“ enthusiast and Motorcoach owners alike that are currently limited to some not all four-wheel-drive vehicles for flat towing capability would love to have a fully charged EV vehicle ready to go when they reach their destination.
Now that would be a clever way to use EV technology !

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

I'll pass that along. Tiffin?

 

[PapaTire]

Hello all, as a current owner of the VW ID.4 and a Luxury Motorcoach the idea of towing any EV is currently limited to trailering with the exception of one EV manufacturer, Rivian. Purchasing my first EV came with many questions and reservations, that was 11mo ago, today I am extremely pleased with my 60,000 mile VW ID.4. I drive my EV a lot and I drive with regenerative braking 100% of the time, the Coach utilizes engine braking to save the brake pads, the EV utilizes regenerative braking to recharge the battery and save the brake pads. I can see the day where one would be able to flat tow a EV input the distance of your total trip and as you brake the tow vehicle the EV activates regenerative braking slowing down the tow vehicle and the EV much like the engine brake of today but with one big difference no “waste of moving energy“ you harness the energy as you do with regenerative braking so on short trips the on board systems use more regenerative braking and long-distance trips use less regenerative braking but always giving your EV a full charge at the completion of any trip regardless of the total miles of the destination. All the current talk of using a EV to power a home during a power outage this would be the next logical step. All the needed components are already in place on every current EV the only thing missing is the software to optimize the components merging the EV with the tow vehicle. If the new Scout had this flat-tow recharge capability it would start a cult-like movement much like the loved VW Van. All “Van life“ enthusiast and Motorcoach owners alike that are currently limited to some not all four-wheel-drive vehicles for flat towing capability would love to have a fully charged EV vehicle ready to go when they reach their destination.
Now that would be a clever way to use EV technology !

What a fantastic idea to use regenerative braking in flat towing behind a motorcoach. Better apply for the patent now if there is not already one! While likely a bit complicated, this is a win, win, win item.

 

[difficulTT]

You can tow-charge a multitude of EVs, according to Motortrend:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-to-flat-tow-recharge-electric-vehicles/

 

[PapaTire]

You can tow-charge a multitude of EVs, according to Motortrend:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-to-flat-tow-recharge-electric-vehicles/

I think the question might be more along the line of are they designed / approved to be towed long term behind a motorcoach. The article referenced is more of a could you recharge by temporary towing.

From the MotorTrend article

"When discussing flat-tow charging with Darren Palmer, Ford's general manager of battery-electric vehicles, he expressed grave reservations about potential hazards related to tow-strap breakage, tow-vehicle/towed-vehicle collision, and whether the electric vehicle's system would report a fault under towing conditions. He recommended using a tow bar, but nobody recommends flat towing an EV behind an RV (even when shifted to neutral, any permanent-magnet electric motor generates back current that could damage the system), so nobody's going to attach one of those for an emergency flat-tow charge."

 

[absentEE]

I think the question might be more along the line of are they designed / approved to be towed long term behind a motorcoach. The article referenced is more of a could you recharge by temporary towing.

From the MotorTrend article

"When discussing flat-tow charging with Darren Palmer, Ford's general manager of battery-electric vehicles, he expressed grave reservations about potential hazards related to tow-strap breakage, tow-vehicle/towed-vehicle collision, and whether the electric vehicle's system would report a fault under towing conditions. He recommended using a tow bar, but nobody recommends flat towing an EV behind an RV (even when shifted to neutral, any permanent-magnet electric motor generates back current that could damage the system), so nobody's going to attach one of those for an emergency flat-tow charge."

This is because permanent magnet motors’ magnetic fields can not be turned off which is another reason switched reluctance motors (SRMs) make a lot of sense for this kind of application as they have no permanent magnets. 3-phase induction motors can work too in regards to flat towing but have many drawbacks as shown below. Permanent magnet motors would need a mechanical solution to disconnect them from the wheels, like the R1T's rear motors.

PM=permanent magnet motor SR=switched reluctance motor

PREMIUM EFFICIENCY MOTOR SELECTION AND APPLICATION GUIDE A HANDBOOK FOR INDUSTRY
page 96

 

[FLRubi58]

As an active RVer who currently utilizes a Jeep Rubicon Diesel as a towed vehicle, I would welcome the idea of being able to flat tow an EV (Scout) behind my RV with the ability to arrive at a destination and have a fully charged vehicle to explore in, all the better that the vehicle had off road capabilities. An additional benefit could be realized if I were able to power the RV while boondocking from the towed vehicle. This could dramatically affect the possibilities for RVer's choices in flat towed vehicles, at least I would buy one!

 

[JohnBills]

Yes, to this! I've thought the same thing. If flat-tow charging is made possible then someone towing with an RV could recharge their Scout on the way to the next destination! It's brilliant. It would also be great for recovery purposes. If someone could flat-tow you for a few miles that might give you enough charge to make it to a station. They do this in Long Way Up with the prototype R1T trucks. Granted, I understand there are also safety concerns with tow straps breaking and the like.

 

[kb2crk]

Flat tow behind an RV is an awesome idea, I wouldn't care if it recharges but that would be an added bonus. The vintage looking scout EV would look great behind my 1976 Dodge Travco Mahal class A.

 

[Mousehunter]

Definitely hope for flat towing. I know the toad is a niche market, but within the niche it is a deciding factor on the vehicle. As for charging - I really don't know the cost. It would be very cool if the vehicle could respond with regenerative braking from a brake controller on the tow vehicle. I flat tow my LJ, but I do it without vehicle brakes which is marginally legal in Texas (due to the older jeeps lower weight). Most states require toad brakes and I honestly don't know of a vehicle that has them built in or even as a factory option. The only real issue I see with this is you would still need mechanical brake override once the battery hits it's target charge level. I suspect it is not an issue with RV'ers, but I flat tow for a different reason - and would probably charge the vehicle before leaving the house.

Not to be a downer, but while I want to flat tow for a hobby of mine (which requires 2 vehicles) - most of the time I flat tow is to take a vehicle to the shop. It is very nice to be able to either flat tow my Jeep to the shop - or tow it behind my truck so I can drive myself home after I drop the truck off. With the truck, it is generally not a huge deal - I can generally get the truck repaired locally within walking distance. But the Jeep sometimes needs to be towed 100 miles to a shop - and it is easier to flat tow than to trailer it.

 

[Jacob7r]

RV flat tow regen mode, front tow bar connections, yes please!

 

[thirdminor]

Yes.. Would love to Flat Tow!

 

[vmikee]

I'm really hoping flat towing is a reality with the Scout Traveler! I also currently flat tow a Jeep Wrangler that I'm hoping to replace with a Scout, but my current RV tow capacity limits me on the weight of the toad. I don't think I'd be able to trailer a Scout behind it, which will impact my purchase decision when the time comes to actually place the order.

 

[DBHowe]

Does an EV like the new Scout have a "neutral" setting of some type that would allow it to be towed behind a motor home? I don't care about it's ability to generate power. For more than 30 years I've enjoyed towing all of my Scout IIs flat-footed with the transfer case in neutral. Not being able to tow the new Scout would be a show stopper for me.

 

[Sheppard]

Flat tow is a feature that would absolutely sell me a new scout.