Offer it with a gas motor

[Schooley]

This should be offered with a gas or diesel engine.
By going strictly EV, you have taken the heart and soul out of the Scout. It wasn’t ever a poser vehicle, it was an almost indestructible work horse. It wasn’t built for luxury, the Scout was a beast.
By offering it only as an EV, you will attract only flannel wearing bun hair hipsters. No self respecting fan of the original Scouts would own one. We all saw them discontinued once and I fear we will see it again.
I would buy one in a gas powered model but will never own an EV. I am a fireman and know the true hazards of EV vehicles that the public is unaware of. EV manufacturers should be required by law to post warnings of hazards in their ads.
I live in a small town in west Texas and have already responded to 2 EV fires. The first was an accident where the battery system failed. The lithium batteries ignited shortly after the crash burning 3 inside. It burned for 12 hours and took 10,000 gallons of water to extinguish. The second caught fire while being rapid charged at an in home charging system. The heat of the charging in a garage compromised the battery housing resulting in a total loss of the vehicle as well as the entire house. I am uncertain of the water usage in this instance. Three department work tirelessly for 14 hours and likely used over 30,000 gallons on this fire. Both regurgitated 10-14 hours of toxic gas into the atmosphere. Water is a precious commodity in west Texas and in many areas across the US is a resource that should never be wasted.

In closing, until there is a better containment system and safer charging options, I feel most EV companies will fail before the technology catches up. Don’t put all your eggs in one basket.

 

[dreamweaver]

It is somewhat exaggerated. There are way more ICE fires However, I heard a couple guys at work the other week (who are retired fire fighters) saying the concern is you need like 5 to 6 tanker trucks worth of water. Guess there is a push to roll up on them with an open end container (think shipping container or 20 Cubic yard dumpster) that they can push until RV is inside then close front and basically fill with water to submerge the vehicle so it can put out the fire. I got what they were saying so someone smart should think of how to create the box and/or the delivery system to enclose the vehicle on fire and make a mint selling it to fire departments or DOT departments.

That's a clever idea for containment. Generally they are called when the vehicle is already burning. So the trick is going to be how to get the burning vehicle in the container, then close and seal just enough to hold the required amount of water to submerge it. Not easy but not impossible either. I like it.

 

[dreamweaver]

Fireblankets

I have used this method in much smaller scale home fire works perfect. Great solution.

 

[THil08]

I have used this method in much smaller scale home fire works perfect. Great solution.

Combine that with the turtle and it will be a powerful device

 

[Dana]

It is somewhat exaggerated. There are way more ICE fires However, I heard a couple guys at work the other week (who are retired fire fighters) saying the concern is you need like 5 to 6 tanker trucks worth of water. Guess there is a push to roll up on them with an open end container (think shipping container or 20 Cubic yard dumpster) that they can push until RV is inside then close front and basically fill with water to submerge the vehicle so it can put out the fire. I got what they were saying so someone smart should think of how to create the box and/or the delivery system to enclose the vehicle on fire and make a mint selling it to fire departments or DOT departments.

I’d have thought class D fire agents and/or foam would do the trick but I don’t know. I wouldn’t go through the trouble though in an open space…just let it burn out. The few fires I’m aware of were post cataclysmic accident as opposed to garage. Guy in Woodlands drinking and hit a tree at 100mph. Normal accidents don’t seem to result in fires. Another guy discharged his firearm in the vehicle and into the battery but that did not, to my surprise, start a fire.

 

[Cranky Canuck]

I’d have thought class D fire agents and/or foam would do the trick but I don’t know. I wouldn’t go through the trouble though in an open space…just let it burn out. The few fires I’m aware of were post cataclysmic accident as opposed to garage. Guy in Woodlands drinking and hit a tree at 100mph. Normal accidents don’t seem to result in fires. Another guy discharged his firearm in the vehicle and into the battery but that did not, to my surprise, start a fire.

The issue is that the current most popular lithium battery chemistry (Nickel-Manganese-Cobalt aka NMC) is self-oxidising so it makes the fires harder to cool down and put out (fire triangle and all that jazz). Newer, cheaper chemistries that are becoming more popular like LFP (Lithium-Iron-Phosphate) don't have the same issues and are far less likely to have thermal runaways so are basically considered to be non-flammable.

Anyway the water container idea is already a thing and in use. I've seen a few examples of them in Europe. Probably something every city should have on hand somewhere but as others have said, EV fires are so rare it's like preparing for an asteroid impact - a high impact but low probability event. I live in a city of over a million people and there have been EVs on the roads here since 2012. I had the chance to speak directly with a fire chief so I asked him about EV fires (because of course I did!) and he said the fire department here has never seen an EV fire. The firefighters have all had training on how to put out EV fires but in almost a decade and a half of EVs being on the roads here they've never once had to do it for real. ICE fires happen a couple of times a week though so they're well versed in how to put those out.

I see those EV fire containers as being like the mass-casualty bus our city paramedic service has, it's something that is probably good to have around and keep maintained but will (hopefully) probably never be used.

 

[dreamweaver]

The issue is that the current most popular lithium battery chemistry (Nickel-Manganese-Cobalt aka NMC) is self-oxidising so it makes the fires harder to cool down and put out (fire triangle and all that jazz). Newer, cheaper chemistries that are becoming more popular like LFP (Lithium-Iron-Phosphate) don't have the same issues and are far less likely to have thermal runaways so are basically considered to be non-flammable.

Anyway the water container idea is already a thing and in use. I've seen a few examples of them in Europe. Probably something every city should have on hand somewhere but as others have said, EV fires are so rare it's like preparing for an asteroid impact - a high impact but low probability event. I live in a city of over a million people and there have been EVs on the roads here since 2012. I had the chance to speak directly with a fire chief so I asked him about EV fires (because of course I did!) and he said the fire department here has never seen an EV fire. The firefighters have all had training on how to put out EV fires but in almost a decade and a half of EVs being on the roads here they've never once had to do it for real. ICE fires happen a couple of times a week though so they're well versed in how to put those out.

I see those EV fire containers as being like the mass-casualty bus our city paramedic service has, it's something that is probably good to have around and keep maintained but will (hopefully) probably never be used.

Solid-state batteries significantly reduce fire risks compared to lithium-ion batteries due to their non-flammable solid electrolytes, making them safer for consumer electronics and electric vehicles. They can't come soon enough.

 

[LastDayScout]

Solid-state batteries significantly reduce fire risks compared to lithium-ion batteries due to their non-flammable solid electrolytes, making them safer for consumer electronics and electric vehicles. They can't come soon enough.

It would be absolutely amazing to launch with solid state. But, I think it will be difficult to launch on time with solid state batteries. Maybe the new batteries will rapidly prove themselves and be available by then, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

This should be offered with a gas or diesel engine.
By going strictly EV, you have taken the heart and soul out of the Scout. It wasn’t ever a poser vehicle, it was an almost indestructible work horse. It wasn’t built for luxury, the Scout was a beast.
By offering it only as an EV, you will attract only flannel wearing bun hair hipsters. No self respecting fan of the original Scouts would own one. We all saw them discontinued once and I fear we will see it again.
I would buy one in a gas powered model but will never own an EV. I am a fireman and know the true hazards of EV vehicles that the public is unaware of. EV manufacturers should be required by law to post warnings of hazards in their ads.
I live in a small town in west Texas and have already responded to 2 EV fires. The first was an accident where the battery system failed. The lithium batteries ignited shortly after the crash burning 3 inside. It burned for 12 hours and took 10,000 gallons of water to extinguish. The second caught fire while being rapid charged at an in home charging system. The heat of the charging in a garage compromised the battery housing resulting in a total loss of the vehicle as well as the entire house. I am uncertain of the water usage in this instance. Three department work tirelessly for 14 hours and likely used over 30,000 gallons on this fire. Both regurgitated 10-14 hours of toxic gas into the atmosphere. Water is a precious commodity in west Texas and in many areas across the US is a resource that should never be wasted.

In closing, until there is a better containment system and safer charging options, I feel most EV companies will fail before the technology catches up. Don’t put all your eggs in one basket.

I would too prefer an all gas option, maybe something like the EcoPoop in the Bronco Raptor where you get plenty of power and decent fuel economy. But that’s not the direction Scout went. I would have never placed a reservation if it wasn’t for the Harvester package. I’m simply not ready to go full EV, but I like some of the advantages of EV, and a gas range extender takes most of my concerns away.

By the time Scout starts to deliver vehicles in 2027, we should have all the information we need.

 

[dreamweaver]

It would be absolutely amazing to launch with solid state. But, I think it will be difficult to launch on time with solid state batteries. Maybe the new batteries will rapidly prove themselves and be available by then, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I think it may take for mass production of solid state batteries closer to 2030.

 

[LastDayScout]

I think it may take for mass production of solid state batteries closer to 2030.

That’s kinda what I’m thinking too. I’m interested to see what Mercedes does with theirs.

 

[Cranky Canuck]

I think it may take for mass production of solid state batteries closer to 2030.

Don't hold your breath. There have been a lot of promises and hype about solid state batteries over the years and there's been nothing to show for it. Making things in a lab environment is a far cry from making things work in the real world. Maybe we'll see them in the 2030's maybe not. If companies like BYD aren't using them then you know they aren't read for prime time yet.

Anyway, Scout has already said they'll be using NCM and LFP technologies. If you're really worried about EV fires for some reason then get the Harvester version because it'll have LFP which are non-flammable.

 

[dreamweaver]

That’s kinda what I’m thinking too. I’m interested to see what Mercedes does with theirs.

Yes. That is the one that has the most promise. But they even said it would be "closer" to 2030 for full production level product.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

The Mercedes tests are with the Factorial FEST, which is a quasi-solid-state battery, not a true solid-state battery. Their claims are over hyping the reality. True solid state is still a ways out. That said, the improvement to specific energy and energy density is still promising.

 

[dreamweaver]

The Mercedes tests are with the Factorial FEST, which is a quasi-solid-state battery, not a true solid-state battery. Their claims are over hyping the reality. True solid state is still a ways out. That said, the improvement to specific energy and energy density is still promising.

Factorial Energy’s solid-state battery system utilizes a lithium-metal anode in conjunction with a proprietary solid electrolyte, achieving energy densities as high as 390 Wh/kg. This setup removes the requirement for liquid electrolytes, vastly enhancing safety and reliability.

A quasi-solid-state battery integrates a flame-retardant liquid electrolyte with a solid electrolyte. From what is available to research not the same battery.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Factorial Energy’s solid-state battery system utilizes a lithium-metal anode in conjunction with a proprietary solid electrolyte, achieving energy densities as high as 390 Wh/kg. This setup removes the requirement for liquid electrolytes, vastly enhancing safety and reliability.

A quasi-solid-state battery integrates a flame-retardant liquid electrolyte with a solid electrolyte. From what is available to research not the same battery.

You quoted their description of the FEST. The best-case of 390 Wh/kg would be great if they can achieve it, but we'll see.

The FEST has a semi- or quasi-solid electrolyte. The Solstice is their tech with the all-solid electrolyte. Mercedes, Stellantis, Hyundai, and Kia have explicitly stated they have received deliveries of the FEST, not the Solstice. To my knowledge, there is no vehicle manufacturer who has publicly stated they are testing the Solstice in a battery array.

https://media.mbusa.com/releases/passenger-car-and-formula-1-engineers-team-up-as-solid-state-battery-road-tests-begin#:~:text=Over%20the%20next,a%20global%20OEM.

 

[THil08]

You quoted their description of the FEST. The best-case of 390 Wh/kg would be great if they can achieve it, but we'll see.

The FEST has a semi- or quasi-solid electrolyte. The Solstice is their tech with the all-solid electrolyte. Mercedes, Stellantis, Hyundai, and Kia have explicitly stated they have received deliveries of the FEST, not the Solstice. To my knowledge, there is no vehicle manufacturer who has publicly stated they are testing the Solstice in a battery array.

https://media.mbusa.com/releases/passenger-car-and-formula-1-engineers-team-up-as-solid-state-battery-road-tests-begin#:~:text=Over%20the%20next,a%20global%20OEM.

View attachment 5577

Looks like stellantis is up there you know what. So I don’t see them lasting long before they end up like NorthVolt. Would be cool to see them succeed.

 

[LastDayScout]

I’m just happy to see the battery technology advancing.

 

[dreamweaver]

You quoted their description of the FEST. The best-case of 390 Wh/kg would be great if they can achieve it, but we'll see.

The FEST has a semi- or quasi-solid electrolyte. The Solstice is their tech with the all-solid electrolyte. Mercedes, Stellantis, Hyundai, and Kia have explicitly stated they have received deliveries of the FEST, not the Solstice. To my knowledge, there is no vehicle manufacturer who has publicly stated they are testing the Solstice in a battery array.

https://media.mbusa.com/releases/passenger-car-and-formula-1-engineers-team-up-as-solid-state-battery-road-tests-begin#:~:text=Over%20the%20next,a%20global%20OEM.

View attachment 5577

It seems Mercedes and F1 are looking to use the Solstice.

Mercedes-Benz Media

Exklusive Einblicke und individuelle Angebote: Erleben Sie mit Mercedes-Benz das Maximum aus digitaler Live-PR. Exclusive insights and individual offers: Experience the maximum of digital live PR with Mercedes-Benz.

media.mercedes-benz.com

 

[cyure]

It seems Mercedes and F1 are looking to use the Solstice.

Mercedes-Benz Media

Exklusive Einblicke und individuelle Angebote: Erleben Sie mit Mercedes-Benz das Maximum aus digitaler Live-PR. Exclusive insights and individual offers: Experience the maximum of digital live PR with Mercedes-Benz.

media.mercedes-benz.com

I’m so excited F1 is back. Race week!

 

[THil08]

You quoted their description of the FEST. The best-case of 390 Wh/kg would be great if they can achieve it, but we'll see.

The FEST has a semi- or quasi-solid electrolyte. The Solstice is their tech with the all-solid electrolyte. Mercedes, Stellantis, Hyundai, and Kia have explicitly stated they have received deliveries of the FEST, not the Solstice. To my knowledge, there is no vehicle manufacturer who has publicly stated they are testing the Solstice in a battery array.

https://media.mbusa.com/releases/passenger-car-and-formula-1-engineers-team-up-as-solid-state-battery-road-tests-begin#:~:text=Over%20the%20next,a%20global%20OEM.

View attachment 5577

For cost of these to lower, it needs to be able to fit inside a phone, if it can do that, prices for them will drop due to the supply being needed for them. AND plus, who doesn't want to have a phone that might blow up in their pocket like the Samsung Note 7.