Off-topic stuff…

[SpaceEVDriver]

I was waiting for your thoughts! I cannot wait to see all the new cars on track during a race.

I should have said, “it’s not *just* about speed."

 

[speedrye]

One of the many, many reasons I won’t even consider a hybrid, much less an all-ICE vehicle is the PITA of maintenance. It’s not even necessarily the dollar costs, which are outrageous. It’s the time to get it done. We drive 15k miles / year on each vehicle, so it would be something we had to worry about four to six times a year. If we went to the dealer, it would take an hour from my day in the morning and another hour when it’s done. No, thanks. That’s simply not worth the time, much less the money.

I tend to keep my vehicles for longer than most (my average vehicle is 23 years old currently) and the vast majority of my maintenance is not related to the engine/transmission. I'll save some on oil changes, sure, but I expect most of the rest of the maintenance to be the same as my current ICE vehicles, even if I opted for the EV Scout. My most common maintenance items:

Oil change: EV clearly wins this one
Brake fluid: same
Tires: Likely more often on the heavier EV
Differential/gear oil: likely the same
Suspension/shocks/bushings: same, or slightly worse on the heavier EV
Coolant: Probably less often, but likely more expensive on the EV.

Uncommon maintenance items:
Brake pads/rotors: likely similar- due to my driving style/commute, I rarely need to change brakes
Clutch: None of my current ICE vehicles have needed a clutch yet, and while the EV won't have a traditional clutch pack, I don't know what kind of clutch packs they'll be using, nor how long they'll last, so this one is unknown.

To be fair, I'm selective about the vehicles I buy and ease of maintenance since I do most of my maintenance. I generally won't buy vehicles with timing belts, and I choose reliability over many other features. You won't see me rocking an Alfa Romeo, haha.

For oil changes though, I mostly drive my sedan and take it to the dealer since they're 1/4 from my office and are oddly cheap. The car takes over 8 quarts of full synthetic and they usually charge me $69-$75. I recognize I'll have more maintenance with the Harvester, but I don't expect much of an impact compared to what I'm used to unless Scout ends up building a crappy vehicle.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I tend to keep my vehicles for longer than most (my average vehicle is 23 years old currently) and the vast majority of my maintenance is not related to the engine/transmission. I'll save some on oil changes, sure, but I expect most of the rest of the maintenance to be the same as my current ICE vehicles, even if I opted for the EV Scout. My most common maintenance items:

Oil change: EV clearly wins this one
Brake fluid: same
Tires: Likely more often on the heavier EV

I’ve had no increased tire wear. My Lightning’s tires are lasting longer than the tires on my Tacoma did, despite the big difference in weight. Similarly for the Mustang. Most of the EV tires I’ve shopped for have had 50k to 80k mile warranties, just like other tires. This myth needs to expire.

Brake pads/rotors: likely similar- due to my driving style/commute, I rarely need to change brakes
Clutch: None of my current ICE vehicles have needed a clutch yet, and while the EV won't have a traditional clutch pack, I don't know what kind of clutch packs they'll be using, nor how long they'll last, so this one is unknown.

There are no clutches in almost any BEV. All but one or two use single-gear reduction boxes; there’s no clutch to engage. I would be especially surprised if the Scout uses clutches.

To be fair, I'm selective about the vehicles I buy and ease of maintenance since I do most of my maintenance. I generally won't buy vehicles with timing belts, and I choose reliability over many other features. You won't see me rocking an Alfa Romeo, haha.

For oil changes though, I mostly drive my sedan and take it to the dealer since they're 1/4 from my office and are oddly cheap. The car takes over 8 quarts of full synthetic and they usually charge me $69-$75. I recognize I'll have more maintenance with the Harvester, but I don't expect much of an impact compared to what I'm used to unless Scout ends up building a crappy vehicle.

It’s not just oil changes. It’s spark plugs, drive belts, etc., etc., etc. To be fair, we don’t know if there will be any drive belts—I expect not, since the “water” pump can be remote and electrically-driven instead of mechanically-driven. So can the oil pump. If they’re not remote, I would expect them to be gear driven rather than belt.

Below is a side-by-side comparison of the 2023 ICEV F-150 (left) and the 2023 F-150 Lightning scheduled maintenance. If the ICEV is used for what many people here claim they need the Harvester for (towing, offroading, etc), they’ll also want to do several additional pages of more regular scheduled maintenance in the “special operating conditions” section.

The thing I think about is less what was the comparison with moving from one ICE to another, but the reduction in time and money wasted on maintenance when I moved to all BEV. My 10k mile maintenance is literally to lift the truck, pull the tires, do the multipoint inspection (which is less than the ICE multipoint inspection), and rotate the tires. It cost $27 when my partner took the Mustang in to the dealer when I was out of town for work.

I do expect the Harvester Terra to have slightly less maintenance than the F-150 ICEV, but more than the Scout BEV. If that maintenance isn’t an issue for you, it’s not an issue. But for some of us, the time (and cost) required to do the maintenance or to bring it in for maintenance is non-trivial.

 

[LastDayScout]

I’ve had no increased tire wear. My Lightning’s tires are lasting longer than the tires on my Tacoma did, despite the big difference in weight. Similarly for the Mustang. Most of the EV tires I’ve shopped for have had 50k to 80k mile warranties, just like other tires. This myth needs to expire.



There are no clutches in almost any BEV. All but one or two use single-gear reduction boxes; there’s no clutch to engage. I would be especially surprised if the Scout uses clutches.



It’s not just oil changes. It’s spark plugs, drive belts, etc., etc., etc. To be fair, we don’t know if there will be any drive belts—I expect not, since the “water” pump can be remote and electrically-driven instead of mechanically-driven. So can the oil pump. If they’re not remote, I would expect them to be gear driven rather than belt.

Below is a side-by-side comparison of the 2023 ICEV F-150 (left) and the 2023 F-150 Lightning scheduled maintenance. If the ICEV is used for what many people here claim they need the Harvester for (towing, offroading, etc), they’ll also want to do several additional pages of more regular scheduled maintenance in the “special operating conditions” section.

The thing I think about is less what was the comparison with moving from one ICE to another, but the reduction in time and money wasted on maintenance when I moved to all BEV. My 10k mile maintenance is literally to lift the truck, pull the tires, do the multipoint inspection (which is less than the ICE multipoint inspection), and rotate the tires. It cost $27 when my partner took the Mustang in to the dealer when I was out of town for work.

I do expect the Harvester Terra to have slightly less maintenance than the F-150 ICEV, but more than the Scout BEV. If that maintenance isn’t an issue for you, it’s not an issue. But for some of us, the time (and cost) required to do the maintenance or to bring it in for maintenance is non-trivial.


View attachment 13623

Now, now. Don't forget washer fluid and wiper blades.

 

[speedrye]

But for some of us, the time (and cost) required to do the maintenance or to bring it in for maintenance is non-trivial.

Agreed, and this is the huge unknown for us still. How much of the Scout will be dealer-only service, how will parts be purchased, and how inconvenient will the service centers be? The closest Rivian service was 4 hours from me for a long while. NOT ideal. I'm used to a dealer picking up my vehicle, servicing it, and dropping it back off, or at the very least picking me up and dropping me off at the dealership, but the former is definitely preferred over the latter on the rare (hopefully) instance when I need service. Early adopter pains, I know...

For the clutches, I was thinking of whatever mechanism is used to decouple a front or rear axle in economy mode. Surely there are some wear parts there, but nowadays everything seems to be a disposable unit and not serviceable.

 

[cyure]

Now, now. Don't forget washer fluid and wiper blades.

What about cabin filters? Do they need those?

 

[LastDayScout]

What about cabin filters? Do they need those?

Yes. Usually once per year.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Yes. Usually once per year.

We do ours about every…never. Even though we live on a dusty gravel road. I’m too lazy to bother with it.

 

[RodorW]

And hopefully they’re easily accessible, and won’t require ripping out half the dash, it took me 40 minutes to get the Buick back together after replacing the filter, and I think it was the volt, just pop a small door in the back of the glove compartment, replace and close. Took 2 minutes total

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

For the clutches, I was thinking of whatever mechanism is used to decouple a front or rear axle in economy mode. Surely there are some wear parts there, but nowadays everything seems to be a disposable unit and not serviceable.

I haven’t seen the internals of the Rivian system, so I can’t speak to the details.

Very, very basically, with a couple semesters’ worth of caveats: it’s possible to “disengage" certain electric motors (permanent magnet) by supplying just enough power to make them “freewheel” at the speed the other motor is driving them. Other motor types (induction) can freewheel when they don’t have any power supplied. So there’s some resistance, but it’s significantly reduced.

Basically, you don’t need clutches to “disengage.” It’s cheaper energy-wise to have a mechanical disengage function, but it’s more complex and more expensive to engineer.

 

[speedrye]

Now, now. Don't forget washer fluid and wiper blades.

Holy crap, speaking of washer fluid, when did it get so expensive?!? Usually mine's filled up during an oil change for "free", but I ran out last week. $5.49/gallon, on sale and not even the cold weather stuff, what the heck? Wipers got expensive too. I ended up getting them from the dealership because they were half the price of any of the aftermarket brands.

 

[RodorW]

Holy crap, speaking of washer fluid, when did it get so expensive?!? Usually mine's filled up during an oil change for "free", but I ran out last week. $5.49/gallon, on sale and not even the cold weather stuff, what the heck? Wipers got expensive too. I ended up getting them from the dealership because they were half the price of any of the aftermarket brands.

Last year I bout 2 Jugs of RainX fluid for $10, now for 4 blades to replace them on our Chevrolets and 2 jugs of fluid is $90

 

[J Alynn]

This is also explained a bit in that video. The F1 organizers are struggling with the tension between the advantage the lead car gets from dirty air and the excitement and money made if there’s less of an advantage for the lead car and the car behind can overtake. This adjustable wing isn’t about speed, it’s about being able to time when the car messes with the turbulent air behind them so the vehicle behind has less chance to pass.

More defense. I like it! New level of head/game play

 

[cyure]

Yes please!

 

[LastDayScout]

Holy crap, speaking of washer fluid, when did it get so expensive?!? Usually mine's filled up during an oil change for "free", but I ran out last week. $5.49/gallon, on sale and not even the cold weather stuff, what the heck? Wipers got expensive too. I ended up getting them from the dealership because they were half the price of any of the aftermarket brands.

I’ve lately made my own with distilled water, alcohol and clear dish detergent. I don’t like how the stuff you buy leaves streaks of whatever color it is.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I’ve lately made my own with distilled water, alcohol and clear dish detergent. I don’t like how the stuff you buy leaves streaks of whatever color it is.

Be careful—the alcohol can damage the seals on the reservoir.
Ask me how I know.