Confirmed….Scout using Rivian’s software…

[RPM]

Scout Motors EVs will use Rivian-VW software and architecture | TechCrunch

VW's new offshoot EV company Scout Motors, which revealed its first two vehicles last week, will use the software and zonal architecture being developed

techcrunch.com

Official confirmation of what everyone already assumed……

 

[huntsw1]

As long as it has Android Auto. #1 reason i refuse to buy a r1t

 

[Logan]

As long as it has Android Auto. #1 reason i refuse to buy a r1t

Similar, but for me it’s CarPlay.

As long as they offer both of those, I’m happy to hear it .

And afaik they said somewhere around here they would be supporting both of them?

 

[Czernobog]

In a Carmudgeon episode a few months ago, Jason Camissa made the claim that while talking to some of the Rivian software developers at a R1 Gen2 press event they admitted it would only take a handful of hours to implement Android Auto and Apple CarPlay in the Rivian software stack. They just aren't given leave to do so because RJ wants only The Rivian Way to be how drivers interact with the infotainment system.

So fingers crossed Scout will see that those few hours of development happens for their branch.

 

[RPM]

Full interview. Interesting interview all around…. Starts to talk about VW JV around 19:30

 

[oldgeeksguide]

In a Carmudgeon episode a few months ago, Jason Camissa made the claim that while talking to some of the Rivian software developers at a R1 Gen2 press event they admitted it would only take a handful of hours to implement Android Auto and Apple CarPlay in the Rivian software stack. They just aren't given leave to do so because RJ wants only The Rivian Way to be how drivers interact with the infotainment system.

So fingers crossed Scout will see that those few hours of development happens for their branch.

The stuff they’re sharing with/getting from rivian is at a lower level, ie the internal network architecture, not necessarily the higher level UI stuff, so I don’t think rivians UI choices should affect them too much.

Also, as a software guy, I can tell you that when a developer tells you they can implement a significant feature in a few hours, it usually ends up being more like a few months ?

 

[Czernobog]

The stuff they’re sharing with/getting from rivian is at a lower level, ie the internal network architecture, not necessarily the higher level UI stuff, so I don’t think rivians UI choices should affect them too much.

Also, as a software guy, I can tell you that when a developer tells you they can implement a significant feature in a few hours, it usually ends up being more like a few months ?

In the Techcrunch interview, Wassym Bensaid (head of SW at Rivian) indicated VWAG/Scout and any other future partners would get not only the ECU software but also the "base" UI software from Rivian. Each automaker could then customize the UI as they see fit. So hopefully Scout does the smartphone screen mirroring work.

I'm a software guy too. While I agree that, as a breed, we trend towards the optimistic, if I provided an estimate with granularity of "hours" that ballooned into "months", I'd be shown the door and told to never come back. ?

 

[Chaparral]

Keep in mind that this is a new software company, it has access to Rivian’s IP and apparently several Rivian engineers were transferred to work for the new company.

They’ll be taking what Rivian did and using it as the foundation of next a generation system that fills VW Group needs.

So we shouldn’t imagine that the Scout trucks will have something identical to what Rivian has today. - it might be quite different from a user interface perspective.

If Scout have been listening they will support Android Auto and CarPlay. Two guiding principles at Scout Motors have been “utility” and “versatility”.
Because CarPlay and Android Auto support thousands of apps they add a lot of versatility and utility. Some of these app are made by small teams and individuals that serve niche needs. No in-house system could support all this.

CarPlay and Android Auto don’t replace the manufacturers in-house system they just add utility and choice on top of it. They may also allow the in-car system to be a bit simpler with less expensive code maintenance.

CarPlay and Android auto also allow complex integrations through a users phone. For example, CarPlay allows each person in the car to control music playback through their own personal device. So when we are on a road trip each passenger can take turns in finding a playlist that they made or saved on their phone. This is a community experience that the car manufacturer cannot easily replicate. Scout celebrated the principle of community during the reveal by putting an extra volume knob for one passenger. The community experience offered through CarPlay takes things a lot further. If Scout truly value ‘community’ CarPlay is a must!

The only reason for not supporting Android Auto and CarPlay is to lock users in to the in-house system and whatever services it supports. The car manufacturer can then make service revenue by signing people up for stuff they already pay for on their phone, showing ads on the display, getting one service to pay them for exclusivity etc. All user hostile! As part of its automotive platform Google effectively pays car manufacturers to not support CarPlay so that users can be locked in to services it makes money from. That’s also user hostile!

Thankfully, Scott promised during the reveal event that Scout will never make its customers a product. Hopefully, that’s an indication that they are not looking to lock users in to certain services or show ads on the screen in the truck.

 

[R1TVT]

Good news is that Rivian has done a tremendous job with SW and updates (and updates that also interact with the truck & HW).

The UI is phenomenal - particularly when compared to the 1980's style UI that OEM's from the big 3 have been using. Even if there are similarities between the Rivian UI and the Scout UI (which I could already see from the initial screens we saw from Scout), it will be a good thing, and it is smart for Scout to take advantage. Yes, true, Rivian wants to OWN & CONTROL all of its valuable customer data. As an OEM, and by usurping screen to either ACP or AA, you are relinquishing some degree of control, and you are giving aways some amount of user data (since the UI is now being driven essentially by the consumer's phone). The truck itself will still be capturing a ton of data in parallel, but there is senstivity to giving up even the smallest amount of data. I think DATA & CONTROL 2 are big reasons why Rivian wanted to preserve its stake in the ground. That said, AA & ACP can both be implemented to allow for very easy toggling between the native infotainment functions and OEM SW and their tiles. Scout can still implement ACP in such a way that you would still have access to the main screen functions alongside ACP tile - which is important. ACP does not need to be implemented in a way that completely obfuscates the Scout UI.

When it comes to the choice by Scout to delight users by enabling ACP or AA, its pretty simple: "What do you take with you everywhere you go, and what has millions of man-years of development already on it, and what won't you ever relinquish?" EASY ANSWER: Your phone.

So, at the end of the day, nobody is going to swap out their SCOUT infotainment system for their iPhone or Android device and take it with them on the trail. The phone will go in and out of the car, and the phone (via ACP or AA) already has all of your contacts and apps and subscriptions loaded... Including WAZE and all of your Spotify music, etc.

The other great thing about Scout enabling AA and ACP is that you will have a superior and safe hands-free driving experience, once connected. Nothing I have seen from any OEM will ever beat SIRI or ALEXA in a native, hands-free voice recognition or experience test. Hands-free is another huge plus for Scout and Scout customers.

 

[ChasingCoral]

RIVIAN SOFTWARE CHIEF CONFIRMS SCOUT WILL USE THEIR TECHNOLOGY

Scout Motors, Volkswagen's new electric vehicle (EV) branch, has introduced its first two models. The company plans to leverage software and zonal architecture developed through a partnership with Rivian.

Wassym Bensaid, Rivian's Chief Software Officer, announced at TechCrunch Disrupt 2024 that production of Scout vehicles is expected to begin in 2027, utilizing this technology. The collaboration is part of a $5 billion agreement anticipated to be completed by year-end.

Earlier, Rivian and VW indicated that this technology would be applied to many of VW's future vehicles. However, it was unclear if Scout's models would benefit from these advancements until now. Scout has unveiled two prototypes: the Traveler SUV and the Terra pickup truck, both featuring a zonal architecture. This design allows the vehicles to function with a smaller number of computers that control specific sections of the electrical system. The software displayed in Scout's promotional materials closely resembles that of Rivian's current models, so Bensaid's confirmation was expected.

During the event, Bensaid highlighted that each brand using the joint venture’s software will keep its distinct identity and features. He remarked, “We’re enabling competition.” He also noted the visual similarities between Scout's vehicles and Rivian's designs, describing it as “fantastic” and a strong endorsement for Rivian's products.

https://tcrn.ch/48vQWL7

 

[Scoutsie]

During the event, Bensaid highlighted that each brand using the joint venture’s software will keep its distinct identity and features. He remarked, “We’re enabling competition.” He also noted the visual similarities between Scout's vehicles and Rivian's designs, describing it as “fantastic” and a strong endorsement for Rivian's products.

https://tcrn.ch/48vQWL7

That comment about the design similarity and “strong endorsement” seems like a bit of hubris. Scouts existed for decades before Rivian. Clean lines are clean lines.

 

[pwrofgrayskull]

Seems like a highly positive partnership to me. Both parties come out winners.

 

[oldgeeksguide]

In the Techcrunch interview, Wassym Bensaid (head of SW at Rivian) indicated VWAG/Scout and any other future partners would get not only the ECU software but also the "base" UI software from Rivian. Each automaker could then customize the UI as they see fit. So hopefully Scout does the smartphone screen mirroring work.

I'm a software guy too. While I agree that, as a breed, we trend towards the optimistic, if I provided an estimate with granularity of "hours" that ballooned into "months", I'd be shown the door and told to never come back. ?

Yes, that makes sense. I think we can both agree that Rivians choice not to include apple CarPlay/android auto is driven by business and UI decisions, not because of any difficulty of implementation.

 

[oldgeeksguide]

Seems like a highly positive partnership to me. Both parties come out winners.

Smartest thing VW has done since spinning up Scout Motors!

 

[shnngns]

The stuff they’re sharing with/getting from rivian is at a lower level, ie the internal network architecture, not necessarily the higher level UI stuff, so I don’t think rivians UI choices should affect them too much.

Also, as a software guy, I can tell you that when a developer tells you they can implement a significant feature in a few hours, it usually ends up being more like a few months ?

And then there's all the testing that needs to be done....or SHOULD be done.

 

[Chaparral]

I'm a software guy too. While I agree that, as a breed, we trend towards the optimistic, if I provided an estimate with granularity of "hours" that ballooned into "months", I'd be shown the door and told to never come back. ?

When it comes to software the people writing the code are usually just focussed on making something work rather than future maintenance and tech debt inflation. The resources needed to keep something working and secure in the future often far outweigh the resources needed to build it in the first place. So like you say, something seems like it should take hours to build and ends up taking months. But this is just the start, the future maintenance often balloons exponentially! Rivian’s software is still new, but in years to come they will probably be hiring increasing numbers of engineers just to crush bugs and patch security vulnerabilities. The older the codebase gets the more complex it will become to add new features. It’s typical for developers seeing the ever growing problem to tell their managers it would be more cost efficient to start again from scratch and re-write with modern APIs/updated language etc than just keep going with the current codebase. This is called “tech debt” and it’s one reason the big tech companies have thousands of engineers.

I have very little confidence that car companies can take on tech debt. Just a few weeks ago security researchers found they could hack Kia vehicles via the web, knowing just the license plate number, unlock them, remotely start the engine and track their location! We can only expect more of this kind of thing.

Personally, I’m a tech guy, I want lots of it. But I don’t want tech for tech’s sake, it must only be used where it adds real utility. I believe Scout should tightly limit the scope of their tech features. Don’t take on too much, and don’t try to replicate things that CarPlay and Android Auto do. Let CarPlay do the in-car entertainment and apps heavy lifting and let Apple take care of the related tech debt. Then Scout can focus it’s limited resources on doing cool tech stuff with the vehicle, but only stuff that’s actually useful.

 

[AjzRide]

This is the part that bothers me about Rivian software. On the other hand, Scout did promise "big chunky buttons" so hopefully that holds.

Rivian Exec Says the Buttons in Your Car Are ‘A Bug’ and Voice Commands Are Better

Usually the debate is between buttons and touchscreens, but are voice controls the future any drivers want?

www.thedrive.com

 

[Chaparral]

This is the part that bothers me about Rivian software. On the other hand, Scout did promise "big chunky buttons" so hopefully that holds.

Rivian Exec Says the Buttons in Your Car Are ‘A Bug’ and Voice Commands Are Better

Usually the debate is between buttons and touchscreens, but are voice controls the future any drivers want?

www.thedrive.com

I believe buttons should ideally indicate state through their position. So a switch is flicked up and stays up or down and stays down or a button is pushed in and stays in. This way, the state is communicated clearly, without even looking, just through touch. When things are also controlled from a screen this becomes impossible unless the buttons are motorized so that they move when you change something on the screen. The problem with touch screens is that you have to look at them and you can’t feel where the buttons are. The best controls are multi-sensory, providing feedback through sound, sight and touch.

Scout designers said that they wanted the controls to feel heavy, like you’re working a machine. This is why people love the old style toggle switches - it takes quite a bit of force to move them, then they suddenly and loudly snap as they change position. This provides a confident, mechanical feel that is rugged and you just know you are operating a machine.

Until I get to use them, I can’t tell if Scout have got the buttons right. The knobs project out in a way that makes them seem vulnerable to me. They kind of look a bit like a watch crown, which is good, but rugged watches have a crown guard. I think I’d prefer the interior to be a bit more rugged overall.

 

[Chaparral]

This is the part that bothers me about Rivian software. On the other hand, Scout did promise "big chunky buttons" so hopefully that holds.

Rivian Exec Says the Buttons in Your Car Are ‘A Bug’ and Voice Commands Are Better

Usually the debate is between buttons and touchscreens, but are voice controls the future any drivers want?

www.thedrive.com

This is a great article. Rivian’s chief software guy seems out of touch (no pun intended), his ideals for how people should interact with a vehicle (voice commands) are not what most people want. One of the biggest cheers at the Scout reveal event was for physical buttons and the automotive media seem excited that Scout are going in this direction. Many members of this forum have been pushing for buttons and Scout were listening.

 

[oldgeeksguide]

This is a great article. Rivian’s chief software guy seems out of touch (no pun intended), his ideals for how people should interact with a vehicle (voice commands) are not what most people want. One of the biggest cheers at the Scout reveal event was for physical buttons and the automotive media seem excited that Scout are going in this direction. Many members of this forum have been pushing for buttons and Scout were listening.

It may be a small thing, but that’s what gives me hope about scout: they’re not just blindly following everything Tesla does like so many other manufacturers. They’re thinking through what works and what people want.